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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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    #3182
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    recedite wrote: »
    Who is in their social circle though? Have you noticed that Africans often tend to hang around together? Is that because they are racist?


    Science is obviously not your forte.
    That is not racism, that is a sectarianism and it is also a longstanding example of how multiculturalism does not work, and never has.

    Science is not my forte, nice projection. See a link to support my point that race has no basis in science.

    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2018/04/race-genetics-science-africa/

    In terms of North Ireland there is so little difference(at a high level anyway) between nationalists and unionists that most people in England can't tell the difference between them as we have seen aptly demonstrated in the Brexit debate. Even in recent years the number of people identifying as either tribe in NI has declined. Which just further adds to my point that race is a social construct.


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    #3183
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    And it is also probably the most socially, culturally and technologically advanced countries in the countries in the world.

    That's pretty irrelevant. More relevant is their shrinking and aging population. It's the most elderly

    Wasn't aware, Japan is far more open to immigration because of the above..

    https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20181210-more-seniors-more-foreigners-how-japan-is-rapidly-changing

    In addition it is perfectly possible for an immigrant to become a Japanese citizen. So their children would be Japanese by birth.
    Continuous residence in Japan for 5 years
    At least 20 years old and otherwise legally competent
    History of good behavior generally, and no past history of seditious behavior
    Sufficient capital or skills, either personally or within family, to support oneself in Japan
    Stateless or willing to renounce foreign citizenship and swear allegiance to Japan

    recedite wrote: »
    International bodies are by definition globalist and therefore not nationalist.
    They don't look out for the interests of the nation state or its citizens.
    In other words, the Japanese do not give a flying fook.

    Gonna bring George Soros into it next? Anyway, as I pointed out. Japan is far more open to immigration than they've ever been apparently.


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    #3184
    The Nal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,513 ✭✭✭✭The Nal


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I don't agree with Gemma O'Doherty for the most part but she has been one of the few people to run for political office who recognises there are problems with immigration. For that I must commend her.

    Absolute nonsense. All of the major parties in 2016 had immigration reform in their manifestos. Words like "bogus asylum seekers" etc in FGs for example. I think almost everyone realises there are issues with immigration at some level.

    You really are an easy sale to the likes of Gems aren't you?

    This stupid black and white thinking. Either you're totally against immigrants or you're some leftie bleeding heart who wants complete open borders. Middle ground does exist.


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    #3185
    Il Fascista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    davedanon wrote: »
    I'll gladly take a card of any colour for this: F*CK OFF YOU RACIST ASSHOLE.

    What a brave soul.


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    #3186
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,503 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    davedanon wrote: »
    I'll gladly take a card of any colour for this: F*CK OFF YOU RACIST ASSHOLE.

    I get the sentiment, but resorting to name calling isn't doing the effort to debunk and confront racists any good.
    Instead it just allows them to continue to paint themselves as victims for nothing more than trying to "understand".

    The tactics on display, from the Naive fool, to his knowledgeable big brother and even the concerned child of immigration are all predictable tropes in this dance.

    Don't let their repetition and denial push you towards personalised attacks.


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    #3187
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,503 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The Nal wrote: »

    This stupid black and white thinking. Either you're totally against immigrants or you're some leftie bleeding heart who wants complete open borders. Middle ground does exist.

    I see what ya did there ;)


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    #3188
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,851 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Because people want to have a debate without being accused of being racist. Anyone who mentions the I word is automatically accused of being a racist in this country and it shuts down a healthy discussion.

    I don't agree with Gemma O'Doherty for the most part but she has been one of the few people to run for political office who recognises there are problems with immigration. For that I must commend her.

    So it's fear of being labelled something that is unacceptable. And it's frutration that you feel you are not being listened to or heard. Interesting. I wonder whats behind all that fear though. It seems quite irrational really the amount of fear that some people have.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #3189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Because people want to have a debate without being accused of being racist. Anyone who mentions the I word is automatically accused of being a racist in this country and it shuts down a healthy discussion.

    I don't agree with Gemma O'Doherty for the most part but she has been one of the few people to run for political office who recognises there are problems with immigration. For that I must commend her.

    Can one have a debate when the other won't answer questions such as:


    1. Did you watch the YouTube video where he rants about "that migrant" in reference to Hazel Chu?

    2. Do you think that is not racist?

    3. Do you think that Hazel Chu is Irish?

    4. Can someone who is not pale skinned with freckles be Irish?

    Debate: A debate is a discussion about a subject on which people have different views. Link: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/debate

    Now, if we don't know your views on the above, how can there be a debate?


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    #3190
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's kind of funny how you've become so illuminated in this thread but didn't watch the video we've been talking about for pages. Selective much?

    To answer your question. Australia. My cousins aged 2-10 emigrated there in 1985, and are 100% Australian. Passports, citizenship, voting, accents, the works.

    But I suppose it helps because they're white :rolleyes:

    Difference between Irish people in Australia and third world migrants living in Europe living BIG difference. Ireland and Australia are both first world countries which share the same language, similar culture, similar laws and a similar way of life to each other.

    The big difference is that the migrants which we are receiving in Europe are from third world countries like Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Brazil and South Africa. These migrants for a start speak a different language or in Nigeria's case English but not as we know it, practice different religions and have a very different culture to Irish people.

    The big difference is the Irish are compatible with Australian, American, Canadian or other European cultures and societies. But they are not compatible with Pakistani, Nigerian, Brazilian, Indian or South African cultures and societies as they share very different values. Put it this way which country would you feel more comfortable to emigrate too Pakistan or Australia?


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    #3191
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Difference between Irish people in Australia and third world migrants living in Europe living BIG difference. Ireland and Australia are both first world countries which share the same language, similar culture, similar laws and a similar way of life to each other.

    The big difference is that the migrants which we are receiving in Europe are from third world countries like Nigeria, Pakistan, India, Brazil and South Africa. These migrants for a start speak a different language or in Nigeria's case English but not as we know it, practice different religions and have a very different culture to Irish people.

    The big difference is the Irish are compatible with Australian, American, Canadian or other European cultures and societies. But they are not compatible with Pakistani, Nigerian, Brazilian, Indian or South African cultures and societies as they share very different values. Put it this way which country would you feel more comfortable to emigrate too Pakistan or Australia?


    Don't you dare come back at me with your nonsense until you've answered the questions posed to you. I was asked
    Kimsang wrote: »
    In what countries could you emigrate to and be considered a native of that country immediately, or within one generation. Answering this question I believe will illuminate the topic at hand.

    I answered it, but as my answer doesn't fit your "non racist, I swear" narrative, you have the gall to retort about third world (aka non Caucasian) races living in the first (aka Caucasian) countries.

    Now, answer the questions, or get the boat.


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    #3192
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,459 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Because people want to have a debate without being accused of being racist. Anyone who mentions the I word is automatically accused of being a racist in this country and it shuts down a healthy discussion.

    I don't agree with Gemma O'Doherty for the most part but she has been one of the few people to run for political office who recognises there are problems with immigration. For that I must commend her.


    Because people racists want to have a debate be racist without being accused of being racist.



    Gemma has done the immigration thing, Renua and Hermann and National Party tried it, the occasional FGer tried it - they've all sunk without trace. Have you got the message yet?


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    #3193
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Any reason for you ignoring those questions Stephen? We've addressed all of yours.

    I checked btw, while China is more stringent.(because of regime) An immigrant can apply for citizenship, so your children would be Chinese by birth. So your point sort of falls on its arse.

    So I'm not gonna engage with you again until you address the set of questions that was directed at you. I would encourage nobody to.


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    #3194
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Can one have a debate when the other won't answer questions such as:


    1. Did you watch the YouTube video where he rants about "that migrant" in reference to Hazel Chu?

    2. Do you think that is not racist?

    3. Do you think that Hazel Chu is Irish?

    4. Can someone who is not pale skinned with freckles be Irish?

    Debate: A debate is a discussion about a subject on which people have different views. Link: https://www.collinsdictionary.com/amp/english/debate

    Now, if we don't know your views on the above, how can there be a debate?

    See Kimsang's answer's to these questions they are the same as mine


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    #3195
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    See Kimsang's answer's to these questions they are the same as mine

    So you haven't seen the video, yet see it fit to defend him.

    That's the problem in a nutshell, "I don't need proof, I have "feelings""


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    #3196
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    See Kimsang's answer's to these questions they are the same as mine

    Just checked, Kimsang was pretty up in the air on the being Irish stuff with the waffle about being Chinese or Japanese. Do you believe she's Irish? You're also claiming to have not seen the video? Really?


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    #3197
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Question for Recedite, Blue shoe, Kim and Stephen.

    Do you think an immigrant of a different culture can bring any cultural or societal value to the country they're emigrating to?


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    #3198
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Question for Recedite, Blue shoe, Kim and Stephen.

    Do you think an immigrant of a different culture can bring any cultural or societal value to the country they're emigrating to?

    That would depend if they are willing to make the effort to work and intergrate


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    #3199
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,503 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Difference between Irish people in Australia and third world migrants living in Europe living BIG difference. Ireland and Australia are both first world countries which share the same language, similar culture, similar laws and a similar way of life to each other.

    Just on this particular piece of nonsense.
    How do you define "1st world" and how long do you actually believe Ireland has met that criteria?

    During our recent periods of peak emigration, do you believe Ireland was a 1st world country?

    During the entirety of our emigration history for which reliable records are available, or at least agreed numbers.
    Was Ireland a 1st world country?

    Why is it ok to move from 1 1st world country to another?
    But not from 3rd world to 1st world?


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    #3200
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    That would depend if they are willing to make the effort to work and intergrate

    How can you tell that when they're stuck in a boat in the middle of the Mediterranean? Or stuck in a direct provision centre while their application is being processed?
    They get 20 euro a week. How much integrating could you do on 20 euro a week?


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    #3201
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    How can you tell that when they're stuck in a boat in the middle of the Mediterranean? Or stuck in a direct provision centre while their application is being processed?
    They get 20 euro a week. How much integrating could you do on 20 euro a week?

    Well for a start they have to be willing to make the effort to try and immigrate legally. The migrants in the Mediterranean are attempting to enter Europe illegally so they have already broken the law by the time they enter.

    As for direct provision one of the main complaints about direct provision is the wait times. The reason for these wait times is because once they have their asylum application rejected which it is in 95% of cases they appeal it again and again until they are allowed stay in the country.


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    #3202
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Well for a start they have to be willing to make the effort to try and immigrate legally. The migrants in the Mediterranean are attempting to enter Europe illegally so they have already broken the law by the time they enter.
    A bit like many undocumented Irish in America or are they different?


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    #3203
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Well for a start they have to be willing to make the effort to try and immigrate legally. The migrants in the Mediterranean are attempting to enter Europe illegally so they have already broken the law by the time they enter.

    As for direct provision one of the main complaints about direct provision is the wait times. The reason for these wait times is because once they have their asylum application rejected which it is in 95% of cases they appeal it again and again until they are allowed stay in the country.

    The majority that make the crossing are not migrants. They are refugees, people looking for international protection.

    Honest question.

    You're fleeing a war with your family, most of your extended family are dead.
    Do you:
    A: Wait around for your proper paperwork?
    B: Sell everything you own and get your family out of there as quick as possible?


    Direct provision:
    You can apply for asylum in Ireland if you arrive here and cannot return to your home country because you fear persecution. When you apply for asylum, you can also apply for a status called Subsidiary Protection. If your asylum application is refused, your application for Subsidiary Protection will then be considered
    From: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/apply-for-asylum

    Nothing in there about arriving "illegally"

    You'll probably love this article (from 2016)
    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-refuses-asylum-to-90pc-of-applicants-35229842.html

    We take in the lowest number of people seeking international protection, and also have the highest refusal rate, 90%, not 95% as you erroneously stated.

    But again I ask, could you integrate on €19 a week? I know if I had a mate who was surviving on €19 a week, I'd be a bit sick of buying them coffee every week!


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    #3204
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    A bit like many undocumented Irish in America or are they different?

    No they are illegal too. I'm not in a position to dictate what another country should do but America are fully entitled to deport those illegal Irish immigrants and I don't have a problem with that.


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    #3205
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    No they are illegal too. I'm not in a position to dictate what another country should do but America are fully entitled to deport those illegal Irish immigrants and I don't have a problem with that.
    That's interesting because you post alot about Ireland and Europe when it comes to migrants but you dont talk much about America. Why? Based on the posts below you see things very differently. As in not all illegal migrants are equal...No?


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111065723&postcount=3190


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111065466&postcount=137


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    #3206
    Sweetemotion
    Registered Users Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    How in the hell is being anti mass undocumented immigration racist?

    You lot just look like a pack of bullies at this stage with the constant ganging up on Stephen.


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    #3207
    cookie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭cookie1977


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    How in the hell is being anti mass undocumented immigration racist?

    You lot just look like a pack of bullies at this stage with the constant ganging up on Stephen.
    Go read the whole thread.


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    #3208
    batgoat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,423 ✭✭✭batgoat


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    That's interesting because you post alot about Ireland and Europe when it comes to migrants but you dont talk much about America. Why? Based on the posts below you see things very differently. As in not all illegal migrants are equal...No?


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111065723&postcount=3190


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111065466&postcount=137
    Wonder if he thinks a Nigerian could integrate in Ireland. Cause I've known some great people from there and worked with them.


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    #3209
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    How in the hell is being anti mass undocumented immigration racist?

    You lot just look like a pack of bullies at this stage with the constant ganging up on Stephen.

    Can you point to anyone here that is pro mass undocumented immigrants?

    Anyone?

    Stephen is a racist, as are other people on this thread. That's a fact. If they think people can only move from one white country to another as it's easier to integrate, that is inherently racist.

    Why is much more interesting. We can only know why if they answer the questions posed to them, in order for us to understand how someone is racist in this day and age.

    And yes, I'll counter those answers as education and talking is the only cure for racism.

    And yes, judging someone by their race, colour or whatever you have no control of is never ok.


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    #3210
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The majority that make the crossing are not migrants. They are refugees, people looking for international protection.

    Honest question.

    You're fleeing a war with your family, most of your extended family are dead.
    Do you:
    A: Wait around for your proper paperwork?
    B: Sell everything you own and get your family out of there as quick as possible?

    In most cases that is not the case even the mainstream media calls them migrants not refugees. What war zones are they fleeing from exactly most of the migrants crossing the Mediterranean are from Sub Saharan Africa from countries like Ivory Coast, Senegal and Nigeria none of which are exactly warzones.

    Where are the women and children as it is mostly young men of fighting age that are making the illegal crossing. So if there is a "war" in their home countries why are they not fighting in it why are they fleeing. Hint there is no war and they are here for economic reasons.
    Direct provision:
    You can apply for asylum in Ireland if you arrive here and cannot return to your home country because you fear persecution. When you apply for asylum, you can also apply for a status called Subsidiary Protection. If your asylum application is refused, your application for Subsidiary Protection will then be considered
    From: http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/apply-for-asylum

    Nothing in there about arriving "illegally"

    No they enter the country illegally then they claim asylum and are allowed to stay. I think if I was feeing a war zone or a dire situation which I was living in fear of my life or being brutally tortured the conditions in a direct provision centre would be the last my worries as I'd be so happy to be alive and safe I would not care.
    You'll probably love this article (from 2016)
    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/ireland-refuses-asylum-to-90pc-of-applicants-35229842.html

    We take in the lowest number of people seeking international protection, and also have the highest refusal rate, 90%, not 95% as you erroneously stated.

    And how many of them are actually sent home. They appeal, appeal and appeal until they are eventually allowed to remain here.


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    #3211
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    cookie1977 wrote: »
    That's interesting because you post alot about Ireland and Europe when it comes to migrants but you dont talk much about America. Why? Based on the posts below you see things very differently. As in not all illegal migrants are equal...No?

    Em it might be something to with the fact that I live in Ireland which is in Europe. I don't know much about America becuase I do not live there and have not even been there I don't know enough about the situation there to really pass comment.


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