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Irish Forestry Funds Sale

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    #122
    Aisling Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Aisling Murphy


    FFruits wrote: »
    Where did people read that AXA investments are retaining Paul Brosnan and Trevor McHugh as managers of the fund? Anyone?

    Getting an action group together is more newsworthy to journalists. Let us know if that happens

    I went to Veon office in Sandyford this morning and it was confirmed to me by Admin manager Gavin Murray that The Managing Director is Trevor McHugh And Paul Brosnan the director of the forestry funds is now the Marketing Director of Veon who have taken over our forestry investments. This is a clear conflict of interest. We need action.


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    #123
    Aisling Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Aisling Murphy


    TradeGenetics wrote: »
    Any guys set up group and pool funds to get legal advice. I’m good for €500

    Count me in for same amount


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    #124
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    Aisling Murphy wrote: »
    I went to Veon office in Sandyford this morning and it was confirmed to me by Admin manager Gavin Murray that The Managing Director is Trevor McHugh And Paul Brosnan the director of the forestry funds is now the Marketing Director of Veon who have taken over our forestry investments. This is a clear conflict of interest. We need action.

    Absolutely correct.
    How can 2 people who work for a company which sells the assets for xyz to another company and then go and work for the new owners and claim there is no conflict of interest.


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    #125
    athwm
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭athwm


    Sorry Nerine my bad.
    7th and 11th Funds returned €1,058.86 and €1,078.49) respectively.


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    #126
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    I've looked up the dates of those two funds 7th & 11th & they are the same growth plans but with very different outcomes. Can I ask if you had a lot of shares in those two funds I had only two in each & could this account for the very different pay out per share? I received €1078.49 per share for the 7th and also €1078.49 for the 11th not €1411.81 & €1437.98 which is some difference


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    #127
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    Phew!


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    #128
    Just joined
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Just joined


    Does anyone know why the 3rd fund (€1313) paid out more then the 2nd fund (€1111), longer term same £500 investment?


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    #129
    athwm
    Registered Users Posts: 5 ✭athwm


    I corrected my errors which show similar amounts to yours, Nerine. I actually received less than you for 7th Fund :(


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    #130
    Davo222
    Registered Users Posts: 24 ✭Davo222


    TradeGenetics wrote: »
    Any guys set up group and pool funds to get legal advice. I’m good for €500
    Count me in .


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    #131
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    Sorry my mistake there Athwm, the 7th paid €1058.86 same as yours & the 11th paid €1078.49.


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    #132
    sue97
    Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭sue97


    Does anyone have an email address for the company. I got nothing in the post again today


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    #133
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    Veon Ltd.
    1 Leopardstown Business Centre,
    Leopardstown,
    Dublin 18
    Free Phone: 1800 719 399


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    #134
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/cantillon/investors-in-irish-forestry-learn-money-doesn-t-grow-on-trees-1.3993293

    Let's hope this is the start of it.


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    #135
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    Anybody know what the returns were for

    "The Forestry Investment Plans – these were ten year forestry funds (all of which have now matured)"
    &
    "The Forestry Growth Plans – these are twelve year forestry funds specifically designed to take full advantage of the benefits of investing into semi-mature forestry".


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    #136
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    okidoki987 wrote: »
    Anybody know what the returns were for

    "The Forestry Investment Plans – these were ten year forestry funds (all of which have now matured)"
    &
    "The Forestry Growth Plans – these are twelve year forestry funds specifically designed to take full advantage of the benefits of investing into semi-mature forestry".

    The following are the share amounts I received for the Forestry Growth Plans
    6th growth plan = 1106.35
    7th growth plan = 1058.86
    8th growth plan = 1090.84
    9th growth plan = 1049.15
    10th growth plan = 1094.28
    11th growth plan = 1078.49
    12th growth plan - 1071.26


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    #137
    older i get better i was
    Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭older i get better i was


    OK some folks won't like this but it's my take, I dipped my toe also but paid no heed to the figures spun at the outset as I thought they were off the wall, I done it as a punt and reckoned at worst I'd get my outlay back, so the few hundred I'm getting is way more than I would have gotten had the funds been sitting on deposit in a bank. I've no background what's so ever in finance but used to browse the annual literature when it ever arrived, it basically spun a negative tale year after year and from the bits I thought I could understand the figures seemed to reflect this too.
    The fact that some directors have moved from Irish forrestry to veon seems to stink to high heaven but knowing the way these fly by nights operate its no surprise and is probably legal. No doubt if folks go after these carpet baggers they will be told investments can fall as well as rise etc and that the investments didn't reach maturity before being sold (even if sold for spurious reasons). I feel genuinely sorry for investors who were depending on these funds for pensions or educational funds and can only wish people the best of luck if they are going to pursue things legally.


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    #138
    Spain Calling
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Spain Calling


    Feck that. Lets do it and drag these dirtectors through some legal challenge and get their smug smiling faces in the media. Worth 500 euros of my share. Count me in


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    #139
    antietam1
    Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭antietam1


    older i get better i was wrote: »
    OK some folks won't like this but it's my take, I dipped my toe also but paid no heed to the figures spun at the outset as I thought they were off the wall, I done it as a punt and reckoned at worst I'd get my outlay back, so the few hundred I'm getting is way more than I would have gotten had the funds been sitting on deposit in a bank. I've no background what's so ever in finance but used to browse the annual literature when it ever arrived, it basically spun a negative tale year after year and from the bits I thought I could understand the figures seemed to reflect this too.
    The fact that some directors have moved from Irish forrestry to veon seems to stink to high heaven but knowing the way these fly by nights operate its no surprise and is probably legal. No doubt if folks go after these carpet baggers they will be told investments can fall as well as rise etc and that the investments didn't reach maturity before being sold (even if sold for spurious reasons). I feel genuinely sorry for investors who were depending on these funds for pensions or educational funds and can only wish people the best of luck if they are going to pursue things legally.

    I cannot agree if it was a punt or a gamble we will never know as it was not completed.
    As regards rising and falling Axa seem to be very happy.


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    #140
    Huntw2
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Huntw2


    Hi, anyone have a phone number to contact them? Cheque missing. Thanks


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    #141
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    so the few hundred I'm getting is way more than I would have gotten had the funds been sitting on deposit in a bank.

    Don't forget interest rates would have been a lot higher at the early stages of these.
    The fact that some directors have moved from Irish forrestry to veon seems to stink to high heaven but knowing the way these fly by nights operate its no surprise and is probably legal.

    Not really fly by night as it's 20+ years going
    No doubt if folks go after these carpet baggers they will be told investments can fall as well as rise etc and that the investments didn't reach maturity before being sold (even if sold for spurious reasons).

    I think the fact that the forests were still going doesn't really allow for the "investments can rise and fall statement".
    I feel genuinely sorry for investors who were depending on these funds for pensions or educational funds and can only wish people the best of luck if they are going to pursue things legally.

    +1

    12,400 investors for an average of €3,500 equates to €43 million odd which is not a small number.


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    #142
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    Veon Ltd.
    1 Leopardstown Business Centre,
    Leopardstown,
    Dublin 18
    Free Phone: 1800 719 399


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    #143
    Billyo66
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭Billyo66


    .


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    #144
    nerine
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭nerine


    Good article in today's Independent by Charlie Weston


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    #145
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    Link
    https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/latest-news/investors-fury-as-forestry-fund-sale-ends-hope-of-hitting-return-targets-38427986.html


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    #146
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    Some parts of the article
    "Mr McHugh acknowledged that the returns were below expectations, but said there was no way of knowing back in the 1990s that so many factors would depress returns."

    Yet he then says
    "Asked why many of the funds were not managed out to maturity, he said there was no prospect of a major improvement in the price of wood."

    So he can't see into the future in the 1990's but somehow that has changed in 2018/19.
    Glad to see he knows what will happen to the price of timber in 10 years time.
    He blamed a glut of timber in Europe, low interest rates, the threat of a trade war between the US and China, the impact of the spruce bark beetle, and droughts.
    "Since then, we have had the dotcom bubble, the recession, ultra-low inflation, and ECB negative interest rates. We could not have expected to have forecast or projected any of that in the 1990s.

    Guess there's nothing left to blame it on after this list of excuses!
    He admitted that he and fellow director Paul Brosnan run a company called Veon which will manage the forestry assets sold to Axa, but insisted this would only mean them getting a small fee for woodland management.

    Wonder what his idea of small is?
    This is also on top of the very substantial fees they got for running the
    forestry funds over the last 20 odd years!


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    #147
    okidoki987
    Registered Users Posts: 10,618 ✭✭✭✭okidoki987


    Also mentioned here
    https://askaboutmoney.com/threads/investment-in-irish-forestry-funds.6699/page-15


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    #148
    Aisling Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Aisling Murphy


    Yes, I spoke with Trevor McHugh Managing Director of Veon on 22 August (and made it very clear how angry I am) and the number he called me on was 01 6219406
    Let him know how you feel about the paltry sum he sold us all out for, while acting in conflict of our best interests by managing the forestries for Axa via Veon.
    Good luck, and hope you get your cheque soon
    Regards
    Aisling


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    #149
    Aisling Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Aisling Murphy


    nerine wrote: »
    Veon Ltd.
    1 Leopardstown Business Centre,
    Leopardstown,
    Dublin 18
    Free Phone: 1800 719 399

    Hi,
    Trevor McHugh rang me on this number 01 6219406


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    #150
    Aisling Murphy
    Registered Users Posts: 16 ✭Aisling Murphy


    It seems that the 6th Fund was described as having gone into 'voluntary liquidation', but I was a shareholder in that fund, and despite many requests for information prior to the sale about the expected value of the shares, before I consented to the sale of the fund, my requests for information were ignored.
    My consent was never requested for the sell off of the fund. As I've written before, I went to Veon offices in person with another investor on 22 August after receiving my paltry cheque, and made it clear I wasn't happy with the whole process, either the sale of my investment without my consent, the paltry amount they were sold for, Trevor McHugh and Paul Brosnan's poor performance in representing the best interests of their 12,400 investors, and their conflict of interest in acting as forestry managers for the new owners of our forestry investment funds Axa. I am currently in contact with some other investors including Lar Sheeran who has posted on the 'askaboutmoney' site that he intends placing an ad in the Irish Times to ask unhappy investors to come forward, and a number of us are willing to put some funds together to investigate this whole process. Even if you can't or don't want to contribute financially, we still want you on board. We need a common platform where we can all communicate and share resources (e.g. political contacts, journalistic contacts, etc.) so if anyone has a suggestion please put it out there. Anyone interested in coming on board please contact me at aislingmurphy1@gmail.com Thanks


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    #151
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    Aisling Murphy wrote: »
    It seems that the 6th Fund was described as having gone into 'voluntary liquidation', but I was a shareholder in that fund, and despite many requests for information prior to the sale about the expected value of the shares, before I consented to the sale of the fund, my requests for information were ignored.
    My consent was never requested for the sell off of the fund. As I've written before, I went to Veon offices in person with another investor on 22 August after receiving my paltry cheque, and made it clear I wasn't happy with the whole process, either the sale of my investment without my consent, the paltry amount they were sold for, Trevor McHugh and Paul Brosnan's poor performance in representing the best interests of their 12,400 investors, and their conflict of interest in acting as forestry managers for the new owners of our forestry investment funds Axa. I am currently in contact with some other investors including Lar Sheeran who has posted on the 'askaboutmoney' site that he intends placing an ad in the Irish Times to ask unhappy investors to come forward, and a number of us are willing to put some funds together to investigate this whole process. Even if you can't or don't want to contribute financially, we still want you on board. We need a common platform where we can all communicate and share resources (e.g. political contacts, journalistic contacts, etc.) so if anyone has a suggestion please put it out there. Anyone interested in coming on board please contact me at aislingmurphy1@gmail.com Thanks

    Your consent wasnt required for the sale to take place.


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