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Gemma not taking enforced retirement too well

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    #2822
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    So why do you have a problem with hate crime laws then?

    He literally explained how they're pretty redundant in the very post you quoted.


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    #2823
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    So why do you have a problem with hate crime laws then?

    So if two people are victims of a mugging both equally traumatised and received the same injuries and the attacks were very similar but one had a racial element and the other did not younthink the one with the racial element should get a tougher sentence. .

    Do you think that is fair on the person who a victim of a non racially motivated attack that someone whondid the exact same thing gets a tougher sentence? It's also verybhard tomprove and quite frankly a waste of resources policing.


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    #2824
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So if two people are victims of a mugging both equally traumatised and received the same injuries and the attacks were very similar but one had a racial element and the other did not younthink the one with the racial element should get a tougher sentence. .

    Do you think that is fair on the person who a victim of a non racially motivated attack that someone whondid the exact same thing gets a tougher sentence? It's also verybhard tomprove and quite frankly a waste of resources policing.

    Yes it is perfectly fair because that person was not specifically targeted because of their identity.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2825
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,901 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Omackeral wrote: »
    He literally explained how they're pretty redundant in the very post you quoted.

    I don’t see how they’re redundant, rather they codify in statute how the courts are to consider such cases in addition to other factors. This prevents weak Court precedent from weakening punishments to such crimes by way of “boys will be boys” style rulings and suspended sentencings.


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    #2826
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Can you give examples of hate crime laws work well in order jurisdictions? Look at the UK where the hate crime laws clearly do not work as the police seem more interested in policing offensive tweets despite the fact the UK is in the midst of a murder epidemic.
    Really? How many hate tweets have the police investigated and how many murders have they investigated? I'm interested to see how you came to the conclusion that they're more interested in tweets? I'm trusting that you actually have some real numbers behind these points, and you're not just using the coverage on your alt-right sites and discussions as your measure.


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    People are wondering how can it be proven that a crime is a hate crime. Is it really worthwhile wasting Garda time and/or the time of the DPP and courts investigating whether hate crime when they should be taking care of other crime.
    It's not an either/or choice. In investigating a crime, Gardai gather the necessary information to decide whether to prosecute a hate crime or not. Judge or jury make a decision about what is proven, just like any other crime. And it works fine in many other jurisdictions.


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    #2827
    pinkyeye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,293 ✭✭✭pinkyeye


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So if two people are victims of a mugging both equally traumatised and received the same injuries and the attacks were very similar but one had a racial element and the other did not younthink the one with the racial element should get a tougher sentence. .

    Do you think that is fair on the person who a victim of a non racially motivated attack that someone whondid the exact same thing gets a tougher sentence? It's also verybhard tomprove and quite frankly a waste of resources policing.

    Yes I think it's completely fair and I'll explain why.

    Because it points out to people that you can NOT decide to attack someone purely based on their race, difference, sexuality etc.

    And will perhaps provide some deterrent.

    At least I live in hope.


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    #2828
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Really? How many hate tweets have the police investigated and how many murders have they investigated? I'm interested to see how you came to the conclusion that they're more interested in tweets? I'm trusting that you actually have some real numbers behind these points, and you're not just using the coverage on your alt-right sites and discussions as your measure.

    I couldn't find exact figures about hate crimes in the UK but I know the police are taking an interest in offensive comments online in fact the police are even admitting they are taking an interest in non crime incidents when their job is to be investigating and preventing CRIME.

    https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=19

    Meanwhile there is a crime epidemic in the UK with murder through the roof. Btw it is not a knife epidemic it is a murder epidemic as most who use knifes use it with the intent to murder another another individual not assault them. In my belief anyone caught using a knife to attack someone should charged with either murder or attempted murder.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089


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    #2829
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I couldn't find exact figures about hate crimes in the UK but I know the police are taking an interest in offensive comments online in fact the police are even admitting they are taking an interest in non crime incidents when their job is to be investigating and preventing CRIME.

    https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=19

    Meanwhile there is a crime epidemic in the UK with murder through the roof. Btw it is not a knife epidemic it is a murder epidemic as most who use knifes use it with the intent to murder another another individual not assault them. In my belief anyone caught using a knife to attack someone should charged with either murder or attempted murder.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089

    Have a look at London 999 feed on twitter. The daily violence is on another level over there


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    #2830
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    pinkyeye wrote: »
    Yes I think it's completely fair and I'll explain why.

    Because it points out to people that you can NOT decide to attack someone purely based on their race, difference, sexuality etc.

    And will perhaps provide some deterrent.

    At least I live in hope.

    No it is not acceptable to attack someone for any reason FULL STOP. Pointing out to people that they can not attack purely based on their race, difference, sexuality etc. suggests to some scumbags that it is acceptable to attack someone if it is not based on the factors which you outline.

    The deterent should be tougher sentences across the board for all crimes


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    #2831
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I couldn't find exact figures about hate crimes in the UK but I know the police are taking an interest in offensive comments online in fact the police are even admitting they are taking an interest in non crime incidents when their job is to be investigating and preventing CRIME.

    https://twitter.com/syptweet/status/1038891067381350401?s=19

    Meanwhile there is a crime epidemic in the UK with murder through the roof. Btw it is not a knife epidemic it is a murder epidemic as most who use knifes use it with the intent to murder another another individual not assault them. In my belief anyone caught using a knife to attack someone should charged with either murder or attempted murder.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42749089

    So you're claim that they were more interested in investigating tweets was just BS then?


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    #2832
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So you're claim that they were more interested in investigating tweets was just BS then?

    Well they were told not to investigate the rape gangs because it might be seen as racist, they weren't allowed to stop and search because that was racist, they don't have much left to do than go online and target little girls that post rap lyrics in tribute to their dead friends.


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    #2833
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Well they were told not to investigate the rape gangs because it might be seen as racist, they weren't allowed to stop and search because that was racist, they don't have much left to do than go online and target little girls that post rap lyrics in tribute to their dead friends.

    And you have reliable sources for all those claims, yeah?


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    #2834
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Well they were told not to investigate the rape gangs because it might be seen as racist, they weren't allowed to stop and search because that was racist, they don't have much left to do than go online and target little girls that post rap lyrics in tribute to their dead friends.

    Stephen was asked a question. You answered it with whataboutery!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2835
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    And you have reliable sources for all those claims, yeah?

    Yes feel free to look them up.

    Sadiq khan has famously backtracked on his campaign promise to end 'racist stop and search'

    This is what Labour MP Keighley Ann Cryer said in 2012
    "Complaints to social workers and the police were ignored because they were "petrified of being called racist"

    The girl who posted rap lyrics name is Chelsea Russell.


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    #2836
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Stephen was asked a question. You answered it with whataboutery!

    The question about what the police are more interested in is a red herring. The point was made that people would prefer to see police resources diverted to real and actual crimes and not internet hurt feelings.

    The fact that the police do waste an enormous amount of money policing twitter is quite frankly ridiculous, considering how they continue to complain about a lack of funding.


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    #2837
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Yes feel free to look them up.

    Sadiq khan has famously backtracked on his campaign promise to end 'racist stop and search'

    This is what Labour MP Keighley Ann Cryer said in 2012

    The girl who posted rap lyrics name is Chelsea Russell.

    So you're confirming that the stop and search hasn't been stopped then. Interesting.

    And you're taking one comment by one MP as gospel. Interesting.

    And you've no details about how much time the police are continuing to spend on other crimes. Interesting.


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    #2838
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kimsang wrote: »

    The fact that the police do waste an enormous amount of money policing twitter is quite frankly ridiculous, considering how they continue to complain about a lack of funding.

    How much is this enormous amount of money please?


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    #2839
    Kimsang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,170 ✭✭✭Kimsang


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So you're confirming that the stop and search hasn't been stopped then. Interesting.

    And you're taking one comment by one MP as gospel. Interesting.

    And you've no details about how much time the police are continuing to spend on other crimes. Interesting.

    Since you're so obtuse, I won't refer you to sources, you can look them up yourself. Stop and search was removed and reintroduced.

    Your ignorance is astonishing and only dwarfed by your conviction.


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    #2840
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Kimsang wrote: »
    Since you're so obtuse, I won't refer you to sources, you can look them up yourself. Stop and search was removed and reintroduced.

    Your ignorance is astonishing and only dwarfed by your conviction.

    So you're confirming a second time that stop and search is continuing. Interesting.


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    #2841
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Yes it is perfectly fair because that person was not specifically targeted because of their identity.

    So you support inequality when it comes to handing out sentences


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    #2842
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So you support inequality when it comes to handing out sentences

    Do you think that a child with a disability should get additional supports in school?


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    #2843
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Do you think that a child with a disability should get additional supports in school?

    Now that's what I call whataboutery!


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    #2844
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So you support inequality when it comes to handing out sentences
    Being a racist isn't protected under discrimination laws.





    Unfortunately for you.


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    #2845
    davedanon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,062 ✭✭✭davedanon


    recedite wrote: »
    Blood and soil.
    These are the two main ways people get their citizenship.
    Jus soli and Jus sanguinis.

    Just seen this. Shameful. How dare you.


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    #2846
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,901 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    No it is not acceptable to attack someone for any reason FULL STOP. Pointing out to people that they can not attack purely based on their race, difference, sexuality etc. suggests to some scumbags that it is acceptable to attack someone if it is not based on the factors which you outline.

    The deterent should be tougher sentences across the board for all crimes

    Now I’ve heard you say some ridiculous **** but this is the most convolutedly stupid thing you’ve clutched at yet. As if scumbag racists are suddenly going to go “ah balls, can’t beat up this minority I have a deep seated irrational hatred for, i better wail on this person from my same ethnic background, because that’s the best way to channel my racism.”

    Like I mean hey, you’re demonstrably a racist Stephen15, you’ve made that clear: are you going to tell me that you’d (if you were so hypothetically and violently inclined) avoid beating on an immigrant and would instead go curbstomp an anglo such as yourself, because you’re mad at immigrants but you prioritized a stiffer punishment over ‘friendly fire?’ Clearly, deep seated irrational hatred begets commensurately irrational arguments.

    You know what else: Anders Breivik mowed down dozens of people who weren’t even immigrants, because he was pissed off about immigrants. Guess what he never said though - ‘well I shot all those camp kids instead because I wanted to avoid it being considered a hate crime.’


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    #2847
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,532 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Now that's what I call whataboutery!

    Now that's what I call avoiding the question - why won't you answer?


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    #2848
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    So you support inequality when it comes to handing out sentences

    No. Bringing in hate crime legislation is a way to actually work towards adressing structural inequalities.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2849
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,927 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Why? Why do you refuse to acknowledge that there is wider impact not just on individuals. Its kind of almost like you feel that your whiteness shouldnt be seen as inferior. Its almost as well like you refuse to acknowledge that hate crimes exist and refuse to acknowledge their impact. Why is that?
    Intersting you ignore these questions Stephen

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #2850
    pjohnson
    Registered Users Posts: 23,257 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    These UKIP/Robinson/Farage/GranTurismo/GemGem fanboys are amazing. I mean these acolytes tie themselves in knots trying to deny what they believe out of some fear of being called racist. They seem concerned about "PC" and cry about the "left" and "PC" while also crying about free speech at every chance while they try to gag themselves.


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    #2851
    SoundsRight
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 408 ✭✭SoundsRight


    Gardai state they believe it's a random attack, not a hate crime, and still that 'peace & integration' guy al-Qadri is pushing that it was a hate crime. Ideally he should be arrested for trying to stir up racial tensions. I'm sure the Gardai already keep a close eye on his like anyway.


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