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Brexit discussion thread X (Please read OP before posting)
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Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 89003
Has anyone suggested holding a referendum in NI to see if the majority would support NI remaining aligned within the EU and for the customs border to be down the Irish sea?
That would test the "undemocratic backstop" mantra.
I believe whilst DUP/UUP politicians and their hard core followers will fight anything they perceive as weakening or threatening the Union I think a lot of Unionists would take a far more pragmatic view of the financial benefits remaining in the SM will give them and that such a vote would deliver a result which would unlock the undemocratic backstop issue.
50% of people in Northern Ireland now describe themselves as neither unionist or nationalist…
For the times they are a-changin'
It used to be that you could tell when you crossed the border because the roads got better. Except now it happens in the opposite direction.
As for the financial benefits.
The HSE on the way up is meeting the NHS on the way down.
The recent announcement of going back to health boards would make it easier to integrate all-island. This week ambulance shortages up there have been covered ones from down here.
Yes there would be winners and losers but PIP assessments are removing benefits UK wide and no one is predicting a jobs boom in the North from Brexit.
Been done on slugger many times but now RTE have picked up on the costs of the NI subvention too.
Lost the link to slugger but from page 4 of the ESRI NI economy doc itself, of the £9.2 Bn Net Fiscal Balance some stuff just drops out.
Up to £8.5Bn of it :eek:included in identifiable expenditure in Northern Ireland 2012-13 Social Protection
budget is pensions accounting for £2.8 billion. These would initially be the responsibility of
the British Government as the pension liability was accrued while Northern Ireland was part
of the United Kingdom.
Congressman Boyle’s report explains, non-identifiable expenditure of £2.9billion includes
Defence Expenditure and UK Debt Interest. These would not be a liability of a new unified
Ireland. Thumann explains that not all the accounting adjustments figure of £1.1billion
would be applicable in a reunification scenario. Also the convergence of the public service
numbers between the north and the south would bring a saving of £1.7billion per annum in
the current budget expenditure of Northern Ireland.
Taking the above adjustments and savings into account the cumulative figure is £8.5 billion.
With the reported deficit for Northern Ireland is at £9.2 billion therefore the current income
and expenditure figure for Northern Ireland comes near a balanced budget in a reunification
scenario. This is of course before taking into account the likely potential for growth in
Northern Ireland following unification as happened in East Germany following its
reunification and to eastern European countries on their accession to the EU.0 -
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johnnyskeleton wrote: »Can I ask what reforms you would like to see the EU make?
Its never going to role back to the early 90's in role so maybe a two speed Europe, the decline of Italy vs France/Germany over that time period is is enlightening (and no Italian politicians were no better in the 80's they just weren't tied to flawed mechanisms).
Spitballing.
Investigate two-speed Europe.
Give European parliament greater role in selection of EU roles, minimum that they propose legislation and can veto particular candidates not the whole selection.
Transparency about expenses and lobbying in EU parliament, remove fixed rate expenses for EU politicians. Put in place that national representatives to EU have to be approved by the electorate more directly, e.g have an election for the role of EU commissioner on a national list system (might be an unworkable idea).
Try scale back the primacy of court rulings have such wide reaching effects, it shouldn't happen that a spanish court ruling about a teenager taking his mums car thats off the road and killing somebody changes the rules for the entire EU (not kept upto date on this case but an example of over reach).
Explore the idea of migration breaks so flows of people are more even, take into account the very large differences in Purchasing Power Parity for a union that has SE England and rural Romania.
Reform CAP
Take a long hard look at the long term social and economic policies, for an apparently technocratic system the EU and particularly the Eurozone has preformed pretty poorly since the great recession, socially even without the culture wars thing the idea that bringing in a large numbers of people with low levels of education at a time when wide spread automation is around the corner makes little sense particularly with the still high levels of youth unemployment in Southern Europe.
Break Germany back up into its historic Kingdoms and Prince Bishoprics "too big for Europe, too small for the world"
.
On a serious point though the fact that the German political system put in place by the allies has served as a model for parts of the EU isn't a good thing, its a system thats built on a distrust of the masses because the Nazi's actions, and the Germans are pretty weird politically, take a look at opinion polling about trust as well as what countries they would defend.
Perhaps the fundamental thing would be to recognize Euro-federalism is not popular with the population at large and act on that.0
This discussion has been closed.
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