Mart Price Tracker

Bass Reeves · 02-08-2019 10:58PM

older by the day wrote: »

I don't finish. But I kept a big tall lanky fr bullock. He will be 30months in october. How much would I lose if he's not fit by then. Is the board bia bonus for him.

Forget about BB bonus let him carry the weight. If you have to let him until next June so be it

Water John · 02-08-2019 11:01PM

That's the advice of a professional. This was my first time having them and it's a dear lesson learned for me. Tried pushing some while finishing other cattle last winter. They only grew one way and that was, up.

CloughCasey1 · 02-08-2019 11:43PM

Water John wrote: »

That's the advice of a professional. This was my first time having them and it's a dear lesson learned for me. Tried pushing some while finishing other cattle last winter. They only grew one way and that was, up.

Trick is buying them at 550kg for small money and keeping them the year. Anything near 600kg and bigger finishers get interested. He won't grade 0+ and even if he did the gremlins in the grading lottery machine would sort that + to a - sharpish! 35mts and 360days will pay you well without any pampering but good grass, minerals and quality silage.

Bass Reeves · 03-08-2019 12:59AM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Trick is buying them at 550kg for small money and keeping them the year. Anything near 600kg and bigger finishers get interested. He won't grade 0+ and even if he did the gremlins in the grading lottery machine would sort that + to a - sharpish! 35mts and 360days will pay you well without any pampering but good grass, minerals and quality silage.

No the time to buy a friesian is in June-August from 300-400kgs if you are good to put weight on at grass. Overwinter on silage and back to grass. The quality of the Fr at present is better than lads think. If factories are stuck for cattle( not this year you always win. Anything over 420 kgs starts to rise in price exponentially, i do not understand the fad with heavy friesians

CloughCasey1 · 03-08-2019 08:20AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

No the time to buy a friesian is in June-August from 300-400kgs if you are good to put weight on at grass. Overwinter on silage and back to grass. The quality of the Fr at present is better than lads think. If factories are stuck for cattle( not this year you always win. Anything over 420 kgs starts to rise in price exponentially, i do not understand the fad with heavy friesians

Fr is a bad seller locally anywhere up to 550kg in weight. May be different down your side. Fierce value at 300-400kg but you'd nearly be sneaking into a second winter to get them into big killout weight. I got bid 600 for a 410kg fr at mart in April and sold for 1060 for same 630kg beast in August off good grass only, before I started finishing everything. Maybe I should go back to that gig. He was a nice fleshy type in fairness.

Butcher Boy · 16-08-2019 01:25PM

just called into skib today for a look the nice ch bull around 300kgs running into 800 no bother, plenty men there for the boat.

yewtree · 16-08-2019 04:22PM

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

Buford T. Justice XIX · 16-08-2019 04:27PM

yewtree wrote: »

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

grassroot1 · 16-08-2019 05:19PM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Buford T. Justice XIX · 16-08-2019 06:38PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Tbh, that's the national figure for successive calvings so you'd have to have questions about the suitability of a lot of cows and heifers calving down to be the future breeding stock of the national herd. And it hasn't really changed in a number of years either.

And the average age at first calving is 31 months as well so there doesn't seem to be a breeding plan there to calve at the most profitable time. If dairy stock can be brought to bulling weights on grass and ration, how does a suckler heifer need an extra 7 months to go in calf and calve down?

There'll be a lot of change in numbers kept once the requirements to keep cows for the BDGP ends but there's fundamental issues jumping out there about the basic foundation for a profitable industry, isn't there?

grassroot1 · 16-08-2019 07:45PM

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Tbh, that's the national figure for successive calvings so you'd have to have questions about the suitability of a lot of cows and heifers calving down to be the future breeding stock of the national herd. And it hasn't really changed in a number of years either.

And the average age at first calving is 31 months as well so there doesn't seem to be a breeding plan there to calve at the most profitable time. If dairy stock can be brought to bulling weights on grass and ration, how does a suckler heifer need an extra 7 months to go in calf and calve down?

There'll be a lot of change in numbers kept once the requirements to keep cows for the BDGP ends but there's fundamental issues jumping out there about the basic foundation for a profitable industry, isn't there?

Oh I agree with what you say but am amazed the figure never moves. Do you think the converts to dairy are calving at 31 months?
There is a large cohort of pedigree beef animals that skew the figure though.
Not forgetting the "special incalf heifer sales" in the west.
Anyhow my apologies this is a mart price thread

Dozer1 · 16-08-2019 08:22PM

Was at the special sale in Gortalea last night. Missed the 50 autumn calving cows but heard they ranged 1300 to1600 ish good big ch cows. After those was 30 pb lims most with papers no engagement with most of them from weanlings to old cows with big horns and most made only factory price younger stock from 900 to 1100 or so. Cows 1100 to 1500. Stock Bull made 1780

Hard Knocks · 16-08-2019 10:09PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Oh I agree with what you say but am amazed the figure never moves. Do you think the converts to dairy are calving at 31 months?
There is a large cohort of pedigree beef animals that skew the figure though.
Not forgetting the "special incalf heifer sales" in the west.
Anyhow my apologies this is a mart price thread

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

Anto_Meath · 16-08-2019 10:24PM

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

Thats it, I perfer to calve heifers around 26 months if I can, so my Feb born heifes calve in April. But as I try to have all caved by the 1st of May any April born heifers I will carry over to Calve at 34 months in Feb. The younger heifers i give AA to but the older onse get LM as they are stronger and better able to calve the LM.

older by the day · 16-08-2019 11:38PM

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Thats it, I perfer to calve heifers around 26 months if I can, so my Feb born heifes calve in April. But as I try to have all caved by the 1st of May any April born heifers I will carry over to Calve at 34 months in Feb. The younger heifers i give AA to but the older onse get LM as they are stronger and better able to calve the LM.

I'm a bit like that too. It's nice to have the heifer not to weak, they don't ever grow after calving. The cull rate in some dairy farms is up to 20% that prob the difference, the sucker man is more lightly to keep the empty

Bass Reeves · 16-08-2019 11:43PM

Hard Knocks wrote: »

A heifer isn’t fully grown until their 3yo
I calved heifers at 24 & 36 months, the 1 at 36 months is fully grown and will feed the calf better
The 24 month old is still growing and feeding a calf which will require better management

I know dairy herds who also calve at 36 months reason that the 24 month is too small in the parlour

Everyone has their ways & logic for age of calving

However most research shows that heifers that calve at as 3 year old will last in the herd less time. This has been shown in both dairying and suckler herds. In sheep research shows that ewe's lambed down at 12 months again last longer in the flock and are more proflic than ewe's lamed at 24 months.

The economics in a small margin business of carrying a heifer 1 year longer before calving down just there. Most of it is down to management. Getting the heifer to a bulling weight at 13-15 months and calving at 22-24 months. Any well bred suckler heifer (Continental breeding) should be well capable of hitting 380-400kgs at 13-14 months of age and a calving down weight of 650kgs. Yes she will still be growing but all mammals breed before they are fully mature in the wild

Its all about management, I was at the mart today and saw Friesians bullocks from 330-615 kgs at 18-19 months of age. The weight difference is not all down to genetics.I saw FR/JE bullock weighting over 400kgs.

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

Albert Johnson · 17-08-2019 01:48AM

yewtree wrote: »

Surely this is a terrible price. That calf needs a 700kg cow to produce him. €800 has to cover the costs of both cow and calf. Its very hard to see how long sucklers can keep going with those returns

I'm in agreement about the costs involved in producing those weanlings but I don't think circa 300kg @ €800 average is any better or worse of a price than any year tbh. It's circa €2.70kg which would be good enough going for a bundle of continental type bull weanlings this early in the season imo. As to whether those prices justify keeping the cows I'm not sure but I can't say that I'd expect much more for the end product. I'm talking about herd averages including the best lads sold now and the last stragglers cashed in Christmas week, across the board it's not too bad in my eyes anyway.

orm0nd · 17-08-2019 08:38AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

However most research shows that heifers that calve at as 3 year old will last in the herd less time. This has been shown in both dairying and suckler herds. In sheep research shows that ewe's lambed down at 12 months again last longer in the flock and are more proflic than ewe's lamed at 24 months.

The economics in a small margin business of carrying a heifer 1 year longer before calving down just there. Most of it is down to management. Getting the heifer to a bulling weight at 13-15 months and calving at 22-24 months. Any well bred suckler heifer (Continental breeding) should be well capable of hitting 380-400kgs at 13-14 months of age and a calving down weight of 650kgs. Yes she will still be growing but all mammals breed before they are fully mature in the wild

Its all about management, I was at the mart today and saw Friesians bullocks from 330-615 kgs at 18-19 months of age. The weight difference is not all down to genetics.I saw FR/JE bullock weighting over 400kgs.

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

Good Post. No room for carrying passengers for 12 months on most farms.

Besides the economic benefits, research has shown that heifers and sheep have far better mothering instincts when bred at a younger age and more likely to produce higher milk yields for their lifetime.

Dunedin · 17-08-2019 02:34PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Keeping a Heifer 12 months longer will cost 250-300 euro minimum. Spread over an average breeding span of 6 calves that's an extra 40-50 euro/calf in costs. This just showed the skewed economics of sucklers. In dairying no farmer in a grass based system can afford an 80% calving ratio, neither can they afford to carry over cows.

It often comes down to individual preference/circumstances. Farmers like having strong cows in the herd that can take bigger bulls which will calve easier and ultimately be more profitable on weanling/beef sales.

One important thing to note. I sold three cull cows this year. Two were ones that calved at three years old and the third calved @24 months - first two averaged €1500 and got €1000 for third. Not factoring in middling calves out of her too.

So deeper analysis is required but I’m sticking to 28-30 months here at the minute.

tellmeabit · 22-08-2019 11:41AM

Anyone in Gortatlea last night? how were they going?

bogman_bass · 22-08-2019 01:03PM

grassroot1 wrote: »

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Add another 20% onto that figure as only 80% of sucklers that calved this year will calve next year.

Well not on this farm its calve or die here. I wonder if with the exodus from sucklers if its not time to recheck those figures. I expect some of the high carry over herds have left suckling

Those are the very lads that will hold on the longest. Set in their ways, know nothing else, they’re the ones that will keep plodding along until they are in a pine box.

It’s the bigger suckler farms that are going dairying not the small ones.

bogman_bass · 22-08-2019 01:18PM

This think of wanting to put a stronger bull on heifers is a cop out. A 3 year old 2nd calver will always calve easier than a 3 year old heifer. You could put a jersey on her and you still would be better off.

As for them not growing, the ones that calve at 24 months here are every bit as big as those calving at 30 months by they time they hit maturity.

cute geoge · 22-08-2019 03:17PM

What are purcel paying for weanling fr bulls for export https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/friesian-bulls-wanted-for-export/22714478
I have only 2 about 220 kg nice quality .

mahoney_j · 22-08-2019 04:01PM

cute geoge wrote: »

What are purcel paying for weanling fr bulls for export https://www.donedeal.ie/beefcattle-for-sale/friesian-bulls-wanted-for-export/22714478
I have only 2 about 220 kg nice quality .

Ring the number .....

cute geoge · 22-08-2019 04:07PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Ring the number .....

I got talking to one of purcells men a few weeks back bit i have forgot again ,something small along with €/kg i think he said

Waternotsoda · 23-08-2019 02:45PM

Popped into the mart today. Alot of heavy charolais bullocks 600kg - 750kg making roughly €2 a kg.

lalababa · 23-08-2019 02:58PM

Waternotsoda wrote: »

Popped into the mart today. Alot of heavy charolais bullocks 600kg - 750kg making roughly €2 a kg.

WTF?? Tell me I'm wrong....
750kg@2euro =1500 at mart.
@50% kill out ...
375kg@3:50base=1312
What's going on there??

Anto_Meath · 23-08-2019 03:09PM

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Robson99 · 23-08-2019 03:51PM

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Of course it was. They would rather give it in the mart than at the factory

dzer2 · 23-08-2019 04:05PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Yes I can't really understand it either, noticed it in the local mart recently too. Heavy cattle are making as much and any bit of quality is making more than they would in the factory. Who did I notice buying all these cattle - Factory agents or Feed lot "farmers" who seem to have pre-arranged prices with the factories....

Of course it was. They would rather give it in the mart than at the factory

This is the way to control the factories get them to weight or close and let them buy them in the mart.

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