Advice on cow for the freezer

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 1:31pm #1

going to put a cow in the freezer this year and looking for any advice that might be useful from anyone that has done this in the past

the father in-law has some limousin heifers and a few young bulls(I don’t think they are castrated if that makes any difference) they will be one year old in November. were fed of the cow’s milk and lived of the grass (no meal or corn)

When would be the best time to kill them?

what would be better the bull or a heifer? - I’ll be dry aging the steaks, any difference in quality of the steaks between the 2?

what weight is best to aim for? I think they will be around 400kg

The cows are over in clounbolouge offally, I think we will use the lad that kills the lambs to kill it and butcher it, any alternative recommendation are welcome if you used them before, no harm to price around

I have 2 large chest freezers and a small half freezer so storage isn’t an issue
I heard you can get the meat blast frozen so you don’t have to turn it, is that worth while doing or is turning the meat much hassle?

anything else I should consider?

I want to use up much of the cow as possible, so any advice there is appreciated. keeping the fat to make tallow, bones for the dogs, anything else to keep/eat that the butcher might be used to discarding

Rows Grower · 14-08-2019 1:42pm

Cheeks, liver and tongue are usually dumped by the butcher.
If you’re not intending to eat them the dogs will love them.
There is an awful lot of bones in a beast, take the marrow from the bigger ones.
Get the meat bagged in portions that will be used fully when thawed.

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 1:53pm

nice one
I love liver! beef cheeks are lovely on their own and also had them on a burger was very tasty
what would you do with the bone marrow? render it? I googled this and some lads serve the big bone roasted and cut in half
i'll ask the butcher how he usually does his portions, this lad is ussually faily good with the lamb and vacum packs everything

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 1:55pm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25236779

this says heifers are better than bull calfs/steers and marble alot better - so I think heifer is the way to go

hopeso · 14-08-2019 2:09pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25236779

this says heifers are better than bull calfs/steers and marble alot better - so I think heifer is the way to go

Yes, heifers are better. But, all steers and bulls end up eaten too...... There will be more fat and smaller bone on the heifer...But, you will have little or no marbling on Limousines... Their meat is very lean....unless they are crossed with something like an Angus

foundation10 · 14-08-2019 2:16pm

I would think for tenderness alone you need to look at butchering a heifer. Ideally she would need to be around 18mths to 2 years. You said they were lim breed. I would pick one that looks soft, what I mean is one that would easily put up a decent fat cover, you do not need one showing all muscle. Lim breed tend to be lean and not as marbled as something like angus of hereford however if you get a good cover of fat on the Lim then should have enough fat and marbling on the meat.

I suggest you leave the meat hang for 28 days, the longer the better. If you get the animal to 600kgs you should have around 250Kgs of boned meat. You need to think about your cuts and pack them accordingly, ie do you want T Bones or striploins/fillets or mix. Rib eye steaks or roasts? What amount of it do you want minced.

If you plan to kill a cow I suggest that you mince the entire animal except for the fillet and some of the steaks. Or else you will be boiling most of this as will be tough.

Make sure the butcher is licensed and the movement is recorded. If killing a 600Kg animal you will need two freezers I would imagine. Other than that best of luck and enjoy!

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 2:17pm

hopeso wrote: »

Yes, heifers are better. But, all steers and bulls end up eaten too...... There will be more fat and smaller bone on the heifer...But, you will have little or no marbling on Limousines... Their meat is very lean....unless they are crossed with something like an Angus

they definitely do! While I have the choice, I would rather go for the better of the 2. That’s a bit disappointing on the marbling but it will do, I'll ask if he has any crossed with angus. Are the angus generally smaller or weigh less comparing to limousines?

if you wanted the best marbling what breeds would be best?

hopeso · 14-08-2019 2:24pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

they definitely do! While I have the choice, I would rather go for the better of the 2. That’s a bit disappointing on the marbling but it will do, I'll ask if he has any crossed with angus. Are the angus generally smaller or weigh less comparing to limousines?

if you wanted the best marbling what breeds would be best?

The heifer is the better of the two....That's the easy bit...

Do you know what colour his Limousines are? Generally, a black wouldn't be a lean as a red as they a crossed with something. Reds usually kill very lean. You won't beat Angus for marbling. But yes, they are much smaller than a Limousine. I suppose a Limousine/Angus cross would be near to ideal.....

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 2:29pm

foundation10 wrote: »

I would think for tenderness alone you need to look at butchering a heifer. Ideally she would need to be around 18mths to 2 years. You said they were lim breed. I would pick one that looks soft, what I mean is one that would easily put up a decent fat cover, you do not need one showing all muscle. Lim breed tend to be lean and not as marbled as something like angus of hereford however if you get a good cover of fat on the Lim then should have enough fat and marbling on the meat.

I suggest you leave the meat hang for 28 days, the longer the better. If you get the animal to 600kgs you should have around 250Kgs of boned meat. You need to think about your cuts and pack them accordingly, ie do you want T Bones or striploins/fillets or mix. Rib eye steaks or roasts? What amount of it do you want minced.

If you plan to kill a cow I suggest that you mince the entire animal except for the fillet and some of the steaks. Or else you will be boiling most of this as will be tough.

Make sure the butcher is licensed and the movement is recorded. If killing a 600Kg animal you will need two freezers I would imagine. Other than that best of luck and enjoy!

Sounds like heifer is the way to go, thanks for the advice on what to look out for when picking one, I’ll go for the softer looking one

On the age, what would be the difference between the 1year old and the 18-24 month one? He tends to sell them on at the year for another farmer to fatten them up, so holding onto one for longer might not be possible - but I’m not sure - I’d say the price will go up with the age/weight increase

Good point on hanging them, I dry age steak at home already so was going to put full primal ribs and maybe T-bones cuts into the fridge for 45-60 days. but it would be great if the butcher hung the cow for the initial 28 days, that would tenderise the rest of the meat

Yeah, I was thinking of grinding up the stew meat for burgers and maybe messing around with different blends for the burger mince. but I do love my slow cooked roasts 4-5 hours in the oven they just fall apart

Panch18 · 14-08-2019 2:30pm

You want an Angus or Hereford heifer in the 450-475kg bracket that is about 18-20 months old

hopeso · 14-08-2019 2:32pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

Sounds like heifer is the way to go, thanks for the advice on what to look out for when picking one, I’ll go for the softer looking one

On the age, what would be the difference between the 1year old and the 18-24 month one? He tends to sell them on at the year for another farmer to fatten them up, so holding onto one for longer might not be possible - but I’m not sure - I’d say the price will go up with the age/weight increase

Good point on hanging them, I dry age steak at home already so was going to put full primal ribs and maybe T-bones cuts into the fridge for 45-60 days. but it would be great if the butcher hung the cow for the initial 28 days, that would tenderise the rest of the meat

Yeah, I was thinking of grinding up the stew meat for burgers and maybe messing around with different blends for the burger mince. but I do love my slow cooked roasts 4-5 hours in the oven they just fall apart

The condition of the animal will be more important than the age....Sure, the younger one will be more tender, but at the same time she'll be useless if she's not fattened enough. Anything under 24 months will be grand.

foundation10 · 14-08-2019 2:36pm

"On the age, what would be the difference between the 1year old and the 18-24 month one? He tends to sell them on at the year for another farmer to fatten them up, so holding onto one for longer might not be possible - but I’m not sure - I’d say the price will go up with the age/weight increase"

The age is purely down to maturing of the meat and taste. I wouldn't like to kill an animal at 1 year as most likely the meat is still changing from veal to beef.

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 2:39pm

hopeso wrote: »

The heifer is the better of the two....That's the easy bit...

Do you know what colour his Limousines are? Generally, a black wouldn't be a lean as a red as they a crossed with something. Reds usually kill very lean. You won't beat Angus for marbling. But yes, they are much smaller than a Limousine. I suppose a Limousine/Angus cross would be near to ideal.....

there is so much to this, thanks for the info! he has both black and red i think he had some limousins crossed with angus last year(I might see if he can get one for the following year)

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 2:45pm

hopeso wrote: »

The condition of the animal will be more important than the age....Sure, the younger one will be more tender, but at the same time she'll be useless if she's not fattened enough. Anything under 24 months will be grand.

What would be a good weight for a limousine that is fattened up enough at 12 months. he gets them all weighed by the next farmer so I will know their exact weight. I can use this to go with how soft and fat they look then to pick one out

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 2:51pm

foundation10 wrote: »

"On the age, what would be the difference between the 1year old and the 18-24 month one? He tends to sell them on at the year for another farmer to fatten them up, so holding onto one for longer might not be possible - but I’m not sure - I’d say the price will go up with the age/weight increase"

The age is purely down to maturing of the meat and taste. I wouldn't like to kill an animal at 1 year as most likely the meat is still changing from veal to beef.

thanks, what would be the differences between the two in terms of flovour colour etc? Is is for the worse or better killing them a bit younger?

They'll be coming off the grass at 1 year so they would be on to the feed then? Would grass fed not be better?

I know 0 about cattle bar what im learning from this thread so curious on the differences

foundation10 · 14-08-2019 3:12pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

thanks, what would be the differences between the two in terms of flovour colour etc? Is is for the worse or better killing them a bit younger?

They'll be coming off the grass at 1 year so they would be on to the feed then? Would grass fed not be better?

I know 0 about cattle bar what im learning from this thread so curious on the differences

In relation to age, younger is better when we are say comparing a 30month old animal to an 18 month old animal. The older the tougher in that case.

Older is better when we compare a 1 year old animal to am 18month animal as the 1 year old has only started to mature into beef at that stage, the meat is paler as the animal is just taken from the mother etc. Personally I don't like veal and would prefer meat to have a darker colour.

Grass fed will be nicer however the animal will need ration to get that fat cover needed and to get that marbling into the meat. This can be fed to the animal when at grass or can be fed when housed with roughage such as silage. I suggest that a good portion of the ration be made up of maize in the case of Lim to get that fat cover on them. There will be a difference in taste however it will not be noticed as doubt you know whether an animal is grass fed, ration fed from the taste of meat you buy in supermarkets.

The most important thing for you is the animal has that fat cover as without it you might as well grind the lot. This means the animal much reach a certain age/weight to put on that fat and its harder to get that cover on lean muscled animals as it is harder getting fat ocver on growing animals. This is why I think you will not get the desired fat cover on a young animal growing on grass. This is my view but a butcher is as good a person to tell you what lies under the skin of any animal.

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 4:31pm

foundation10 wrote: »

In relation to age, younger is better when we are say comparing a 30month old animal to an 18 month old animal. The older the tougher in that case.

Older is better when we compare a 1 year old animal to am 18month animal as the 1 year old has only started to mature into beef at that stage, the meat is paler as the animal is just taken from the mother etc. Personally I don't like veal and would prefer meat to have a darker colour.

Grass fed will be nicer however the animal will need ration to get that fat cover needed and to get that marbling into the meat. This can be fed to the animal when at grass or can be fed when housed with roughage such as silage. I suggest that a good portion of the ration be made up of maize in the case of Lim to get that fat cover on them. There will be a difference in taste however it will not be noticed as doubt you know whether an animal is grass fed, ration fed from the taste of meat you buy in supermarkets.

The most important thing for you is the animal has that fat cover as without it you might as well grind the lot. This means the animal much reach a certain age/weight to put on that fat and its harder to get that cover on lean muscled animals as it is harder getting fat ocver on growing animals. This is why I think you will not get the desired fat cover on a young animal growing on grass. This is my view but a butcher is as good a person to tell you what lies under the skin of any animal.

Might be worth while holding onto it for another 6-8 months then, I’ll see how his fixed for room in the shed, I think he only keeps the ones he is breading but I’m sure he will have room for 1 more.
Spending a few quid on it so it would be a waste to get it killed too young and not enjoy the meat as much, all over few hundred euro and a few months

At this stage I probably won’t notice the difference between grass and ration fed but would like to try 2 side by side to see the difference

I’ll have a look at them properly to try see if there is any fat cover on them at the moment and have a chat to the butcher see what he has seen

I found this link and killing young doesn’t seem to be popular
Only 0.1% are killed before 12months, 5.7% 12-18months, 24.4% at 18-24 months and 32.5% at 24-30months
https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/bulk-milk-disease-screening-an-important-tool/

lalababa · 14-08-2019 4:47pm

Why don't you just get him to buy you an older (20+ month) herdford/Angus forward store/butchers heifer at the Mart and let him fatten it up abit? That would be the simple thing to do.

lalababa · 14-08-2019 4:50pm

Should pick up something like that 450+kg for 1k.

howyegettinon1 · 14-08-2019 6:26pm

lalababa wrote: »

Why don't you just get him to buy you an older (20+ month) herdford/Angus forward store/butchers heifer at the Mart and let him fatten it up abit? That would be the simple thing to do.

I was half thinking that, id rather not wait another year to fill the freezers. what would you be looking for buying one(im sure he'd know a bit more) and what ype of feed they were on etc.. or does that matter much?

and would would be best to feed them to fatten them up for the few months?

trixi2011 · 14-08-2019 7:09pm

Ussualy kill a freemartin or empty jersey cross heifer here . Don't do anything mad to fatten straight off grass @ about 16 months oldto the local factory meat is better than anything you would buy from the supermarkets

Stevieluvsye · 14-08-2019 7:15pm

Slightly off topic but how much can I buy a cow from a farmer to do the same thing. I have butchery skills and wondering how many cuts of meat can I get?

trixi2011 · 14-08-2019 7:17pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Slightly off topic but how much can I buy a cow from a farmer to do the same thing. I have butchery skills and wondering how many cuts of meat can I get?

You can't all cattle need to go from a herd number to a registered abatoir for slaughter.

White Clover · 14-08-2019 7:51pm

Stevieluvsye wrote: »

Slightly off topic but how much can I buy a cow from a farmer to do the same thing. I have butchery skills and wondering how many cuts of meat can I get?

What do you butcher Stevie? You'd want proper lifting equipment etc before going at a bovine carcass.

Stevieluvsye · 14-08-2019 8:10pm

White Clover wrote: »

What do you butcher Stevie? You'd want proper lifting equipment etc before going at a bovine carcass.

Did a stint in a butcher shop in London so have experience of a cut

Rows Grower · 14-08-2019 8:16pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

I was half thinking that, id rather not wait another year to fill the freezers. what would you be looking for buying one(im sure he'd know a bit more) and what ype of feed they were on etc.. or does that matter much?

and would would be best to feed them to fatten them up for the few months?

Take my advice and accept what your father in law is offering with open arms.

He knows what he's at and you will 100% taste the difference between what he gives you and what you or any Joe Soap can buy in a shop.

This is his life's work and he's obviously proud of it.

You're privileged enough to have his daughter, be grateful he considers you worthy to have one of his cattle that he has probably put just as much consideration in to rearing.

Use the marrow for soups / stews or casseroles.

Never underestimate the value a farmer has in his own stock, if someone doesn't show gratitude when I give them a half dozen eggs or a few onions they're gone off the list.

howyegettinon1 · 17-08-2019 11:47am

this couldnt get any better, has a lovely black limousine/angus heifer thats a year old, going to wait a few months to let it fatten up to about 18 months before butchering
thanks for all the advice

uck51js9zml2yt · 17-08-2019 2:26pm

I was talking to a local farmer this morning about a heifer. He has a 1.5 year old about 480kg LW. Cost me about 900euro and between JJ Walsh and another guy about 250 for killing and butchering.
He reckons about 250kg of meat.

Not sure on the breed. He's in putting up electric fencing in my field to put in some calves for a few weeks so can ask ...( robbed me blind in that one

)

hopeso · 17-08-2019 2:34pm

Mila Nice Gunsmith wrote: »

I was talking to a local farmer this morning about a heifer. He has a 1.5 year old about 480kg LW. Cost me about 900euro and between JJ Walsh and another guy about 250 for killing and butchering.
He reckons about 250kg of meat.

Not sure on the breed. He's in putting up electric fencing in my field to put in some calves for a few weeks so can ask ...( robbed me blind in that one )

The 480kg heifer will probably have a carcass weight of around 250kg alright, but this won't be all meat....Bone and trimmings will decrease this weight a lot. Not trying to throw a spanner in the works or anything. Just helping you to make an informed decision....

uck51js9zml2yt · 17-08-2019 2:39pm

hopeso wrote: »

The 480kg heifer will probably have a carcass weight of around 250kg alright, but this won't be all meat....Bone and trimmings will decrease this weight a lot. Not trying to throw a spanner in the works or anything. Just helping you to make an informed decision....

Thanks
What do you think I'll get in the end.

It's an Angus. Powers do the butchering for those who know them !

JJ only hangs them for 2-3 days.

hopeso · 17-08-2019 2:43pm

howyegettinon1 wrote: »

this couldnt get any better, has a lovely black limousine/angus heifer thats a year old, going to wait a few months to let it fatten up to about 18 months before butchering
thanks for all the advice

Sounds good! You've probably discussed it with him already, and maybe it's fine, but one snag that I noticed is that you want him to hold her over the winter in his shed along with his other cattle. There's probably no worries regarding space in the shed for one more....but feeding her will be another issue.. She's going to require a substantial amount of feed twice a day in order to fatten her. Assuming he's not finishing other cattle, she'll have to be fed away from the others to prevent them from eating the ration.

Advice on cow for the freezer

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