The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

ToBeFrank123 · 16-08-2019 01:41PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Then of course there is Stephen Cluxton the fella who became the model for Keepers all over the GAA world - he is key to the raising of the gaelic football bar for Dublin.

Stephen Cluxton, the guy Gooch and co regularly put on his arse back in the day? That Stephen Cluxton?

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 01:47PM

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Dublin have got (and are still getting) special treatment way above what other counties can hope to receive and your response is to ask why other counties can't replicate Tyrone? What's the logic there?

You are right btw, Tyrone and other counties don't have the luxury of relying on the handouts and help ups that dublin have enjoyed over the past number of years. But sure as long as Dublin is winning all around them who cares about the rest right?

When we had a competitive championship with an average Dublin team it was a crisis - we needed an action plan at the highest levels, bucket loads of money and professional structures put in place to sort that out. Now Dublin are dominating, attendances are dropping and there is zero competition but the solution is to take a long hard look at yourself, get your own house in order, nothing to see here.

That is part of it but I also suggest redistribution of funds (an EU type model)
It is no coincidence that Meath faded fast after Boylan or Kildare wasted underage talent after Micko's inspiration.

Getting a good manager to make the use of his resources no matter what they are is key.
What were Tyrone like before Micky Harte?
What were Wexford like before Davy Fitz?
What were Cuala like before Mattie Kenny?

I am sure there are other managers in counties that are currently underachieving - that can do a better job than the ones that are there.
But infighting Cork (normally) and poor management Galway means some counties are not fulfilling thier potential.

Throwing money at things is pointless unless the right people are in place - Parnell's example.
It is akin to a lottery winner blowing thier millions and becoming bankrupt.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 01:55PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Stephen Cluxton, the guy Gooch and co regularly put on his arse back in the day? That Stephen Cluxton?

The player who transformed himself.

The same fella who got send off v Armagh (2003) for stupidity - ended up kicking an AI winning point in the 2011 final.
He transformed himself into a defacto outfield player after that.
That Stephen Cluxton.

Also he deserves even more credit for moving to Parnell's Junior team to play with his mates - (rather than play with mercenary players from all over the country - which ended in fiasco)
That Stephen Cluxton.

The player who is still playing for Dublin after all these years and trains like mad to keep himself fit. (wooly parkinson praised his strength in the gym and workrate in training)
That Stephen Cluxton.

The player who shuns the limelight and just wants to play football
That Stephen Cluxton.

The greatest goalkeeper in the history of the game
That Stephen Cluxton.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1036289588992438272

Snippet of Cluxton's 2018 AI winning speech:

'To the officers of the county board and the staff of Parnell, we'd like to thank you for your endless work and dedication to the team. And regardless of what people say about money and population, to put these teams out and really, really go as hard as we can.... (Cheers)'

flasher0030 · 16-08-2019 01:59PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Mulligan's goal was steps by the way and a double hop?

And don't mention those startled earwigs I was in shock for weeks after it.

Yeah there was a good mix of teams in the 2000's Kerry, Galway, Tyrone, Mayo, Armagh.

When you think of it 5 into four would not go - then the backdoor proved Uster were top dogs - the dubs were just scrapping to sit at the same table.
At the time Dublin players were hyped up in hope and expectation

Wayne McCarthy was hyped up because he used to gather the footballs for Charlie Redmond in training....

The 2003 u21 AI was the start of something bubbling for Dublin Jim Gavin at the helm.
Much the same feel that Kerry have now around thier team now.

The 2002 u21 team was hammered by Galway by the way.

Where was the double hop. Just watched it there. Can't see anything.

And steps. If you watched an entire game in slow motion, I'd say you'd easily count 50 incidents where a player goes over the 4 steps. There was nothing exaggeratingly obvious about Mulligan's steps - unlike Kevin McMenamin back in 2011.

To try to discredit one of the best goals ever is a low stoop to try to make a point.

tikkahunter · 16-08-2019 02:03PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That proves adaptability though they can change to any tactic in the one game.
Have you asked yourself why new tactics needed to be found?

I will tell you it started with McGuinness bringing defensive football to a new level. Which brought Tyrone's style on another level.

Dublin then copped on not to bring the ball in the tackle which is/was food and drink for Tyrone and Donegal.
Patience was learnt.

Dublin do not take pot shots.

As a result last years AI final was the most complete victory I have ever seen - how many wides?

As for bringing the game to another level - maybe you have not seen Dublin live?
Have you watched thier movement at speed and control did you see the Mayo game?
Their off the ball movement as well as on the ball.

Plus not only that because Dublin press up so high the opposition keepers are lost they end up kicking the ball out of play.

Then of course there is Stephen Cluxton the fella who became the model for Keepers all over the GAA world - he is key to the raising of the gaelic football bar for Dublin.

Listen lad your absolutely wasting your time here, you have posted factual replies in everyone of your posts but he only responses your getting are bitter ramblings , anyone who thinks the football the Ulster teams played before this Dublin team became dominant was competitive and great to watch is having a laugh , I remember the term puke football being commonly used. Maybe if county boards got off their arse and set up a proper structure and looked for funding then the begrudgers would see that it’s not money alone that wins you all Ireland’s . Some of the bitterness in this tread is laughable.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 02:03PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

Where was the double hop. Just watched it there. Can't see anything.

And steps. If you watched an entire game in slow motion, I'd say you'd easily count 50 incidents where a player goes over the 4 steps. There was nothing exaggeratingly obvious about Mulligan's steps - unlike Kevin McMenamin back in 2011.

To try to discredit one of the best goals ever is a low stoop to try to make a point.

Ok so you are saying thier was steps but no double hop and the goal should have been disallowed if the ref was doing his job fair enough.
So it is not that great really then is it?
That was the point I was making.
Couldn't remember if there was a double hop.
I had a great view of it live knew there was definitely steps.
Let's not rewrite history by calling it a great goal.

Keegan got a great goal v Dublin the last day - Mulligan (2005) no.

ToBeFrank123 · 16-08-2019 02:16PM

It was a great goal and a great decade which people remember very fondly.

The standard was exceptional with many exceptional teams and players, certainly far more than this decade.

galwaylad14 · 16-08-2019 02:18PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok so you are saying thier was steps but no double hop and the goal should have been disallowed if the ref was doing his job fair enough.
So it is not that great really then is it?
That was the point I was making.
Couldn't remember if there was a double hop.
I had a great view of it live knew there was definitely steps.
Let's not rewrite history by calling it a great goal.

Keegan got a great goal v Dublin the last day - Mulligan (2005) no.

That’s a hilariously wrong opinion

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 02:23PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Look lads, if you think a decade that had Canavan, the O'Se's, O'Neill, Joyce, Donnellan, Meehan, O'Sullivan, Cooper, Moynihan, and countless other all time greats, was of a dire standard, then do us all a favour and stop posting on the GAA forum.

Its actually this decade's standard that has been dire in comparison. Tyrone, Armagh, Meath, Galway, Cork and even Kerry, some of the traditional powerhouses have been nowhere near their usual standard, allowing Dublin a relative free run at it.

You are half right except for this bit Dublin have taken it on another level.
I am fortunate enough to see lots of Dublin games as a Dub supporter.
I have never seen the like of how the players just glide along like those animals in nature programmes - natural athletes with skill. Other sports must be kicking themselves that they let them slip through thier fingers.

I feel fortunate as a Dub supporter to have seen these lads play in the flesh on numerous occasions
It is in future years that this team will be truly appreciated.
I am just glad to be around to witness it.
I was also that the Kerry v Donegal game that was a fantastic game of football - with a level of attacking football that would be up there or above many eras.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 02:25PM

galwaylad14 wrote: »

That’s a hilariously wrong opinion

How can an opinion be 'wrong' by definition.
Also how can a goal be considered 'great' when it was in breach of the rules of the game?

flasher0030 · 16-08-2019 02:35PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok so you are saying thier was steps but no double hop and the goal should have been disallowed if the ref was doing his job fair enough.
So it is not that great really then is it?
That was the point I was making.
Couldn't remember if there was a double hop.
I had a great view of it live knew there was definitely steps.
Let's not rewrite history by calling it a great goal.

Keegan got a great goal v Dublin the last day - Mulligan (2005) no.

Oh Man, and ye guys then have the "why does everybody hate the dubs" heads on ye. I'm not rewriting history. It was a great goal.
By your logic, Kevin McMenamin's goal in 2011 should not have counted, therefore Kerry would have won the match, and Dublin would have to continue their famine since 1995. They wouldn't have had the period of dominance, and therefore this 5 in a row in not legitimate at all. All because the ref back in 2011 didn't do his job.
Stop trying to create parallel universes. The goal stood. It was a great goal. One of the greatest of all time. The only person that I could see doing that now is Con O'Callaghan. I don't think anybody else has the speed, strength and awareness to pull it off.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 16-08-2019 02:37PM

Cluxton is a great player. Suggesting otherwise is just delusional.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 02:43PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

It was a great goal and a great decade which people remember very fondly.

The standard was exceptional with many exceptional teams and players, certainly far more than this decade.

Ok I will go through this era's forwards alone.

Michael Murphy
McBreaty
Brennan
McHugh
Clifford
O'Brien
Paul Geaney
O'Donoghue
O'Connor
Donaghy
Mannion
D.Connolly
O'Callaghan
Kilkeny
B. Brogan
Paul Flynn
Walsh
Burke
Armstong
Comer
Moran - best football of his life
McManus
Quinlivan
Harte
S.Cavanagh
McShane
Gooch
Brian Hurley
Luke Connolly
Tomas Corrigan
Ronan Clarke
Martin Clarke
D.Murtagh
Conor Cox

That list of the last decade does not look so bad to me.
I think you are letting the fact that Dublin are so good cloud the fact that there are many fine exponents of Gaelic football playing the game today.
You just need to watch the games.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 02:52PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

Oh Man, and ye guys then have the "why does everybody hate the dubs" heads on ye. I'm not rewriting history. It was a great goal.
By your logic, Kevin McMenamin's goal in 2011 should not have counted, therefore Kerry would have won the match, and Dublin would have to continue their famine since 1995. They wouldn't have had the period of dominance, and therefore this 5 in a row in not legitimate at all. All because the ref back in 2011 didn't do his job.
Stop trying to create parallel universes. The goal stood. It was a great goal. One of the greatest of all time. The only person that I could see doing that now is Con O'Callaghan. I don't think anybody else has the speed, strength and awareness to pull it off.

What you are asking though was it a great goal.
It is not a great goal if it was steps though was it?
Tomas O'Se dicussed the issue of steps on TSG it is a pet hate of his.
No offence but I would take a multiple AI winners opinion ahead of yours.

I have seen many great goals scored against Dublin but that Mulligan one - is not a great goal. It was great for him that he got away with it - but it was not a great goal. Great idea but not a great goal as it was illegal under the rules of the game.

ToBeFrank123 · 16-08-2019 02:54PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ok I will go through this era's forwards alone.

Michael Murphy
McBreaty
Brennan
McHugh
Clifford
O'Brien
Paul Geaney
O'Donoghue
O'Connor
Donaghy
Mannion
D.Connolly
O'Callaghan
Kilkeny
B. Brogan
Paul Flynn
Walsh
Burke
Armstong
Comer
Moran - best football of his life
McManus
Quinlivan
Harte
S.Cavanagh
McShane
Gooch
Brian Hurley
Luke Connolly
Tomas Corrigan
Ronan Clarke
Martin Clarke
D.Murtagh
Conor Cox

That list of the last decade does not look so bad to me.
I think you are letting the fact that Dublin are so good cloud the fact that there are many fine exponents of Gaelic football playing the game today.
You just need to watch the games.

Many of those forwards played 10 years ago too.

The 2000s was not a dire decade standard wise and certainly wasn't from an excitement point of view.

I'm going to leave the arguing over standards past and present at that - as it could go on indefinitely.

In summary, the 2000s was a great decade.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 03:01PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Many of those forwards played 10 years ago too.

The 2000s was not a dire decade standard wise and certainly wasn't from an excitement point of view.

I'm going to leave the arguing over standards past and present at that - as it could go on indefinitely.

In summary, the 2000s was a great decade.

Yeah, but the way you are talking, you are just as bad if not worse than those who are saying that the 2000's had nothing to offer.

I suspect in your case it is nostalgia clouding your judgement about this era.
Surely if there was some overlap of players from your great 2000's it meant the standard was not only maintained but was raised with the new blood like Con, Clifford, Cox, McManus et all

I think deep-down when it comes down to it you think the 2000's era was better because Dublin were not very good.
Which is why you are so affronted by Dublin's current success.

blanch152 · 16-08-2019 03:19PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I don't really see how Dublin have raised the bar.

2-6 in twelve minutes?

Putting up hurling scores on a regular basis?

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 03:24PM

blanch152 wrote: »

2-6 in twelve minutes?

Putting up hurling scores on a regular basis?

They seem to want it everyday -

Dublin's detractor's say the following contraction:

"
Dublin are dominating winning way too much with professional coaches

v

But Dublin have not raised the bar."

Dublin's detractor's say the following contraction:

"The standard of football has fallen overall

v

But that is not because of other traditional counties not putting the effort in like they used to"

The cognitive dissonance is hilarious.

Am I the only one who can see these blatant contradictions?

There seems to be a real gap in logic somewhere.

ToBeFrank123 · 16-08-2019 03:38PM

blanch152 wrote: »

2-6 in twelve minutes?

Putting up hurling scores on a regular basis?

At home...again...
Against a walking wounded, tired Mayo team who'd already played what, 9 games, with several players at the end of their career and after a weeks turnaround, whereas Dubs rested most of their team the week before, the comfort of having 2 opening home super 8 games.

And I didn't even mention massively more GDF over the years than Mayo

The days of the championship being fair and balanced are long since gone.

Time to reduce the GDF dramatically to Dublin and get them out of their home Croker for as many games as possible.

ToBeFrank123 · 16-08-2019 03:42PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They seem to want it everyday -

"
Dublin are dominating winning way too much with professional coaches

v

But Dublin have not raised the bar."

"The standard of football has fallen overall

v

But that is not because of other traditional counties not putting the effort in like they used to"

The cognitive dissonance is hilarious.

Am I the only one who can see these blatant contradictions?

There seems to be a real gap in logic somewhere.

The standard has fallen across the board. You and Blanch having been telling us that ad nauseum for the last few days, how Kildare, Meath, Galway and Cork have fallen in standards.

Which is it?

flasher0030 · 16-08-2019 03:45PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

What you are asking though was it a great goal.
It is not a great goal if it was steps though was it?
Tomas O'Se dicussed the issue of steps on TSG it is a pet hate of his.
No offence but I would take a multiple AI winners opinion ahead of yours.

I have seen many great goals scored against Dublin but that Mulligan one - is not a great goal. It was great for him that he got away with it - but it was not a great goal. Great idea but not a great goal as it was illegal under the rules of the game.

So, are you saying that Dublin should be discredited with the 2011 All-Ireland because of McMenamin's overcarrying. That it was not rightfully theirs on that basis.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 03:51PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The standard has fallen across the board. You and Blanch having been telling us that ad nauseum for the last few days, how Kildare, Meath, Galway and Cork have fallen in standards.

Which is it?

You missed the point completely my post was others the naysayers were saying!

They are contradicting themselves - does that have to be explained?

You said dublin have not raised the bar for example - and go on about pro coaching etc

Then say standards have fallen since the 2000's yet dublin's domination is due to money?

I am asking you which is it.

blanch152 · 16-08-2019 03:51PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

At home...again...
Against a walking wounded, tired Mayo team who'd already played what, 9 games, with several players at the end of their career and after a weeks turnaround, whereas Dubs rested most of their team the week before, the comfort of having 2 opening home super 8 games.

And I didn't even mention massively more GDF over the years than Mayo

The days of the championship being fair and balanced are long since gone.

Time to reduce the GDF dramatically to Dublin and get them out of their home Croker for as many games as possible.

If Dublin haven't raised the bar, then the GDF money definitely didn't have any effect.

If you take away Dublin, no matter which way you look at it, that lowers the standard of football. Otherwise, they couldn't have won five-in-a-row.

If you want to argue that money has made a difference (and it is more than clear that you do after your hundreds of posts on this subject) then it must have meant that Dublin have raised the standard of football. You can argue that it is artificially done (and I can disagree) but if Dublin haven't raised the standard, then others - Mayo, Kerry, Tyrone - are playing at a much lower standard and have failed to challenge. That is on them, not on Dublin, which destroys your own main argument.

The whole essence of your argument is that Dublin are now playing to a much higher standard than anyone else because of money. If the money meant that Dublin came up only to the standard of everyone else, then they would only have won two or three All-Ireland's.

The cognitive dissonance on this point (as gormdubhgorm) has rightly pointed out demonstrates that you are driven by hatred of all things Dublin rather than objective analysis.

Someone who says that Dublin are playing better football than anyone else and that this is caused by the money deserves a hearing, even if I disagree with them.

Someone who can't even give credit to the outstanding 12 minutes we saw last Saturday but is the loudest on the money issue isn't really deserving of any respect for what they say.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 03:52PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

So, are you saying that Dublin should be discredited with the 2011 All-Ireland because of McMenamin's overcarrying. That it was not rightfully theirs on that basis.

Dublin actually robbed that AI it was won against the run of play anyway Kerry were pulling up - coasting

That was only the one to light the spark - cluxton's kick great as it was it was not a well won AI
Kerry were trying to what Dublin do now - slow the game down take the sting out and were caught.

blanch152 · 16-08-2019 03:55PM

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The standard has fallen across the board. You and Blanch having been telling us that ad nauseum for the last few days, how Kildare, Meath, Galway and Cork have fallen in standards.

Which is it?

No, I haven't, I have been clear that the standard of football played this decade is much higher than the standard of football played last decade. That is largely due to this great Dublin team raising the bar, and some others - Mayo, Tyrone and now Kerry - attempting to follow.

I have often said that the current Mayo team is the best Mayo team ever. They have just come up against the GOAT. Tough on them, but that is sometimes how it happens.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 03:58PM

blanch152 wrote: »

No, I haven't, I have been clear that the standard of football played this decade is much higher than the standard of football played last decade. That is largely due to this great Dublin team raising the bar, and some others - Mayo, Tyrone and now Kerry - attempting to follow.

I have often said that the current Mayo team is the best Mayo team ever. They have just come up against the GOAT. Tough on them, but that is sometimes how it happens.

Exactly it is like when you watch AI gold the further you go back the poorer the standard, speed, skill, tactics etc.
Advancements are made

flasher0030 · 16-08-2019 04:23PM

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Exactly it is like when you watch AI gold the further you go back the poorer the standard, speed, skill, tactics etc.
Advancements are made

Ya, I can't understand some punters claiming that the standard of football back in the day was better than it is now. The sill levels, point-taking ability, athleticism, tactics are miles ahead of what they were 20 or 30 years ago.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 04:38PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

Ya, I can't understand some punters claiming that the standard of football back in the day was better than it is now. The sill levels, point-taking ability, athleticism, tactics are miles ahead of what they were 20 or 30 years ago.

I think it is nostalgia when it comes down to it.
But if you watch games from different eras and compare sometimes it is like watching a different sport entirely.

robbiezero · 16-08-2019 04:45PM

There is certainly a lot of teams playing well below their high mark over the last 5 years. It is very like the 2006-2008 years in hurling where you had the end of a great Cork side and before the coming of a good Tipp side with Waterford being the Mayo equivalent in between.
Dublin are a superb side, but its a pity that we aren't seeing a few more sides playing to or near their high mark (Their high mark being their best team of the last 30 years).

e.g.
Kerry - Progressing, but their team of the last decade was far superior to the one of the last 5 years. That may change.
Tyrone - Same without the progressing bit.
Donegal - Not as good as 2012, but look to be coming.
Meath/Cork - Have fallen off a cliff, but some green shoots thankfully this year.
Armagh/Galway/Kildare - No where near their teams of the early 2000s.
Down/Derry - Seem to be at nothing.
Cavan/Roscommon - Haven't been in the frame for an AI in my lifetime so they are probably doing ok.
Westmeath/Laois/Wexford etc - Meh.

In the last 5 years really only Mayo and Monaghan of the top teams have played to their high mark and that high mark was not an AI winning team.

gormdubhgorm · 16-08-2019 04:59PM

robbiezero wrote: »

There is certainly a lot of teams playing well below their high mark over the last 5 years. It is very like the 2006-2008 years in hurling where you had the end of a great Cork side and before the coming of a good Tipp side with Waterford being the Mayo equivalent in between.
Dublin are a superb side, but its a pity that we aren't seeing a few more sides playing to or near their high mark (Their high mark being their best team of the last 30 years).

e.g.
Kerry - Progressing, but their team of the last decade was far superior to the one of the last 5 years. That may change.
Tyrone - Same without the progressing bit.
Donegal - Not as good as 2012, but look to be coming.
Meath/Cork - Have fallen off a cliff, but some green shoots thankfully this year.
Armagh/Galway/Kildare - No where near their teams of the early 2000s.
Down/Derry - Seem to be at nothing.
Cavan/Roscommon - Haven't been in the frame for an AI in my lifetime so they are probably doing ok.
Westmeath/Laois/Wexford etc - Meh.

In the last 5 years really only Mayo and Monaghan of the top teams have played to their high mark and that high mark was not an AI winning team.

Tipp a great side largely built from thier minor win (the best in thier history I would say) - decimated by going to the hurlers though.
Roscommon have thier best side in decades I think.
Monaghan definitely had thier best side in decades - great manager too

(I was always looking out for the Rossies/Tipp they were my 'second' team at one time or another)

But yeah, some teams have really let themselves go.
Maybe some overachieved in previous eras like Derry in fairness - what a group they had - Tohill et al
But it is made worse when there is talent there (Kildare, Galway, Cork) and it is faded away not built on or nurtured properly

The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1