Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

BlackandGreen · 14-08-2019 3:15pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Express a different opinion, your suddenly some state hired goon pretending to be a real poster.

Hong Kong protestors can demonstrate peacefully and act civilised. All they doing here is tempting fate. China will crack down hard if continues to escalate to violence. By the way no country in the west would tolerate civil unrest and violence. Its only a headline, when its China or Russia. France has had civil unrest for nearly 5 months, and do you see the news broadcasts? Is there posters claiming the France police are bad people? The Yellow Vests are demanding the French President resign.

It's simply because you peddle propaganda. You advocate an authoritarian regime rife with human rights violations and brutal crack downs on entire nations and ethnic groups. I don't think you are a wumao but you certainly sound like a mainlander living in Ireland, possibly a student.

If you aren't then let me speak in Irish terms for you. Cop yourself on.

You act and talk like China is not something Hong Kongers should fear.

You ignore all the issues and continously raise bollocks counter points, finger wag and hand wringing at protestors for simply not bending over and getting steam rolled by China and losing all their human rights.
You keep saying "HK'ers can peacefully protest if they want".
and I've said time and time again that they have been peacefully protesting and have exhausted every peaceful route possible. But you conveniently ignore that.
The peaceful protests stop being peaceful because of the response of the government, and police. In all cases the violence has been sparked by police.

If the extradition bills pass, people will disappear. Human rights will be revoked and entire families will die as per how things are on the mainland when people speak up against the regime.

Another thing you seem pointblank refuse to understand is that these protests have gone beyond just anti-extradition protests.
They've evolved to being anti-china as whole. Hk'ers do not want Chinese rule for reasons that are painfully obvious.

And so what about Russia and France? That's another story for another thread.

This is the Hong Kong thread and trying to dismiss the HK issues because what about-isms re other countries is laughable.

There's also major crackdowns in Kashmir by the Indian state being ignored by western media.

tl'dr youhave the laziest counter arguments and are awfully ignorant in your replies of what is happening in HK.

Answer me this: Why doesn't carrie lam just revoke the anti-extradition treaty ENTIRELY?

BlackandGreen · 14-08-2019 3:23pm

Survey released today on hong kong police/government.
Not just younger generations who aren't happy with their handling of this.
source https://www.pori.hk/pori_release20190813_eng

Also, protestors were again attacked by Triads/pro-paid for PRC gangsters today.

The same gangsters who were found to be regularly co-operating with police.

The same gangsters that have put multiple civilians in hospital and beat/stabbed them on a weekly basis.

Here's one of the injuries they inflicted on a protestor.

Extremely NSFW and graphic with blood/knife wounds

click at your own risk

https://i.imgur.com/02WiCgY.jpg

SFW news source.
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/08/06/hong-kong-man-black-slashed-assailants-targeting-protesters-tsuen-wan/

archer22 · 14-08-2019 4:57pm

Seems to me like the real agenda of those trying to stroke up fear and paranoia in Hong Kong, is to create an independence movement.

Carrie Lam has already shown a willingness to compromise and be flexible.
But they seem to have no interest in compromise or dialogue.

And if they continue on that path then I think their crushing by the PLA is pretty inevitable.

BlackandGreen · 14-08-2019 4:59pm

https://twitter.com/MattRiversCNN/status/1161659759751122944

Gatling · 14-08-2019 5:27pm

archer22 wrote: »

Carrie Lam has already shown a willingness to compromise and be flexible.
But they seem to have no interest in compromise or dialogue.

Lol .

Imagine that a sovereign independent Hong Kong.

#IndependentFreeHongkong

Yurt2 · 14-08-2019 5:29pm

archer22 wrote: »

Seems to me like the real agenda of those trying to stroke up fear and paranoia in Hong Kong, is to create an independence movement.

Carrie Lam has already shown a willingness to compromise and be flexible.
But they seem to have no interest in compromise or dialogue.

And if they continue on that path then I think their crushing by the PLA is pretty inevitable.

The fear is coming from Hong Kong residents. They know what's in store for them over the next decade if they don't assert themselves.

Chinese nationalists have been claiming this is all a CIA/MI6 plot, which is what I think you're angling at and is tinfoil hat stuff. You're reading from Xi's playbook here

Muahahaha · 14-08-2019 5:47pm

BlackandGreen wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MattRiversCNN/status/1161659759751122944

Satellite photo of the stadium shows stacks of armoured personel carriers

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/14/satellite-photos-show-chinese-armoured-vehicles-border-hong-kong-shenzhen-sports-stadium

joseywhales · 14-08-2019 6:10pm

You would think that Irish people would understand the legitimate right to self determination and universal suffrage.

Gatling · 14-08-2019 7:33pm

joseywhales wrote: »

You would think that Irish people would understand the legitimate right to self determination and universal suffrage.

Unfortunately some posters want communism and the Berlin wall back ( hard to actually believe they are Irish )

riclad · 14-08-2019 10:42pm

Its strange theres also protest,s going on in moscow against the government ,
demanding the right to free elections .
At the moment only pro government people can go on the ballot paper .
Hong kong and russia have one thing in common,
the best protest is peaceful protest,
fighting the police or causing damage only weakens your case or the cause for democracy .
The thing the police fear is a mass of protestors who protest in a
peaceful manner without causing damage to public property .
The hk protestors are using apps like tinder to communicate .
The problem i see is sense there ,s no leaders who will
say its time to slow down or stop the mass protests, .
In a few weeks china will just send in the army .
The are protesting because they need to fight for democracy and their rights
to free speech otherwise they will end up like the rest of china ,
no free speech, no right to free elections, under total government control ,with the legal system under total government control .
Hong kong could end up like kashmir is now ,
with thousands of soldiers enforcing a curfew
to limit any protests .

joseywhales · 15-08-2019 1:03am

The real game is that they do kill protesters, violently and with contempt and the whole thing is recorded and seen and is so potent that no propaganda can twist what we see. That will break the chinese resolve because it will spread like a contagion. It's horrible but they have proven that they will only relinquish power if they are forced to. They need to believe that nobody will follow them and therefore they are pointless.

c.p.w.g.w · 15-08-2019 1:09am

joseywhales wrote: »

The real game is that they do kill protesters, violently and with contempt and the whole thing is recorded and seen and is so potent that no propaganda can twist what we see. That will break the chinese resolve because it will spread like a contagion. It's horrible but they have proven that they will only relinquish power if they are forced to. They need to believe that nobody will follow them and therefore they are pointless.

Won't work, we in the west love cheap stuff.. China makes most stuff incredibly cheaply (probably due to slave labour maybe, I don't know)

joseywhales · 15-08-2019 1:13am

I am more interested in the changing the chinese people. The country is far more fragile than is portrayed. I cannot empathise with what it is like to be a chinese citizen and particularly the vast diversity in culture and province, but you would think that either a successful victory or a massive sacrifice could trigger more resistance within China

pauldla · 15-08-2019 1:16am

joseywhales wrote: »

The real game is that they do kill protesters, violently and with contempt and the whole thing is recorded and seen and is so potent that no propaganda can twist what we see. That will break the chinese resolve because it will spread like a contagion. It's horrible but they have proven that they will only relinquish power if they are forced to. They need to believe that nobody will follow them and therefore they are pointless.

Spread to where, the mainland? I doubt that very much.

kowloon · 15-08-2019 1:32am

There have been convoys of trucks and troops massing near the border, this may kick off soon.

pauldla · 15-08-2019 1:53am

kowloon wrote: »

There have been convoys of trucks and troops massing near the border, this may kick off soon.

Vids of convoys, helicopter flyovers etc in SZ have been doing the rounds on Wechat for at least a week now. I'm working not too far from the sports centre at SZ Bay and have been thinking about taking a wander by to have a look for myself. Not so sure that's such a good idea though...

Yurt2 · 15-08-2019 1:59am

pauldla wrote: »

Vids of convoys, helicopter flyovers etc in SZ have been doing the rounds on Wechat for at least a week now. I'm working not too far from the sports centre at SZ Bay and have been thinking about taking a wander by to have a look for myself. Not so sure that's such a good idea though...

I'd stay well clear of that. Snooping around as a white guy in these circumstances is a quick way to earn yourself an appointment with the security services.

pauldla · 15-08-2019 2:02am

Yurt! wrote: »

I'd stay well clear of that. Snooping around as a white guy in these circumstances is a quick way to earn yourself an appointment with the security services.

Oh I was just thinking more of taking a different bus home that just happens to go by there. I certainly wouldn't go wandering around the vicinity...!

joseywhales · 15-08-2019 2:14am

pauldla wrote: »

Yurt! wrote: »

I'd stay well clear of that. Snooping around as a white guy in these circumstances is a quick way to earn yourself an appointment with the security services.

Oh I was just thinking more of taking a different bus home that just happens to go by there. I certainly wouldn't go wandering around the vicinity...!

Nice to work in a country where you are in genuine fear of being detained for observing the security service, eh?

pauldla · 15-08-2019 2:42am

joseywhales wrote: »

Nice to work in a country where you are in genuine fear of being detained for observing the security service, eh?

Well that's the thing, I'm not sure one would be detained. If one were to wander around there with a clueless look on one's gob (a look that comes very easily to me), it's entirely possible that nothing at all would happen. Or you might be told to go away. If you whipped out the camera and began taking photos, though, that might be a whole other kettle of fish...

I imagine I shall listen to my inner coward, decide that discretion is the better part of valour, and go home by my usual route.

IAMAMORON · 15-08-2019 11:53am

Just finished watching the press conference from the Chinese central government, the spokesman did not rule out intervention if the situation got out of the HK authorities hands. He also mooted at " foreign invisible hands " at work.

For me the entire protest looks to be very well organised, I originally suspected M16 and I would still say so, especially now as the Chinese are " allegedly raising such allegations".

archer22 · 15-08-2019 12:02pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Just finished watching the press conference from the Chinese central government, the spokesman did not rule out intervention if the situation got out of the HK authorities hands. He also mooted at " foreign invisible hands " at work.

For me the entire protest looks to be very well organised, I originally suspected M16 and I would still say so, especially now as the Chinese are " allegedly raising such allegations".

There does seem to be quite a lot of agent provocateurs after popping up alright.

IAMAMORON · 15-08-2019 12:08pm

I would say MI6 have a healthy Cantonese population for starters, especially operating within Hong Kong.

But the level of Kudos and the sheer determination of the core of the protestors leads me to believe it has been orchestrated and planned for quite some time. They are definitely following a strategy , it is not some random willy nilly people protest.

Yurt2 · 15-08-2019 12:17pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Just finished watching the press conference from the Chinese central government, the spokesman did not rule out intervention if the situation got out of the HK authorities hands. He also mooted at " foreign invisible hands " at work.

For me the entire protest looks to be very well organised, I originally suspected M16 and I would still say so, especially now as the Chinese are " allegedly raising such allegations".

Mainlanders blame the CIA/MI6/the black hand of foreign influence if their porridge gets cold in the morning. It's all over state run media there that this is perfidious America or Britain wanting their colony back, and also a pet-line of thought of Xi. An entirely useful conspiracy theory in that it directs Chinese people away from the thought that Beijing has been mishandling the HK situation for years.

Could it be that Hong Kongers are actually p*seed off at their civil liberties being being eroded and becoming a clearing house for dirty mainland money? No, it could only be Johnny English in his tuxedo formenting revolution in university canteens.

You're giving intelligence agencies far too much credit.

archer22 · 15-08-2019 12:22pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Mainlanders blame the CIA/MI6/the black hand of foreign influence if their porridge gets cold in the morning. It's all over state run media there that this is perfidious America or Britain wanting their colony back, and also a pet-line of thought of Xi. An entirely useful conspiracy theory in that it directs Chinese people away from the thought that Beijing has been mishandling the HK situation for years.

Could it be that Hong Kongers are actually p*seed off at their civil liberties being being eroded and becoming a clearing house for dirty mainland money? No, it could only be Johnny English in his tuxedo formenting revolution in university canteens.

You're giving intelligence agencies far too much credit.

Because there is no extradition!....financial crooks from the mainland are using Hong Kong as a safe haven.

Yurt2 · 15-08-2019 12:42pm

archer22 wrote: »

Because there is no extradition!....financial crooks from the mainland are using Hong Kong as a safe haven.

Hong Kong already is adept at investigating and prosecuting white collar crime. The only people that get away with it are connected mainlanders. I'll leave you to guess why that might be.

If a mainlander without guanxi is caught up to no good, they'll get hammered either in the mainland or Hong Kong. Extradition is about increasing the reach of Beijing's legal system, which if you knew much about it, would agree is an extremely bad thing for HK residents.

IAMAMORON · 15-08-2019 12:46pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Mainlanders blame the CIA/MI6/the black hand of foreign influence if their porridge gets cold in the morning. It's all over state run media there that this is perfidious America or Britain wanting their colony back, and also a pet-line of thought of Xi. An entirely useful conspiracy theory in that it directs Chinese people away from the thought that Beijing has been mishandling the HK situation for years.

Could it be that Hong Kongers are actually p*seed off at their civil liberties being being eroded and becoming a clearing house for dirty mainland money? No, it could only be Johnny English in his tuxedo formenting revolution in university canteens.

You're giving intelligence agencies far too much credit.

Mainland China uses Bitcoin to move it's private/black money. Hong Kong can only be used to transfer legitimate trading funds through legitimate means, or, the funds are subject to international money laundering laws. So I don't believe this is the case. It is illegal to privately remove money from China, it has to be moved to purchase something via a legitimate business.

Mi6 and/or the CIA are more interested in having an influence over whoever is ruling in Hong Kong. This because their respective countries and their citizens have so much invested interest over there, huge money. By enabling this movement they hope to gain influence down the line.

More than likely the British Foreign office are not satisfied with the amount of influence they have over the current administration, they want more control over what is happening.

Follow the money, that is always where the answers are. This is not some " people's movement" catalyst evolving, it looks highly organised.

archer22 · 15-08-2019 12:49pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Hong Kong already is adept at investigating and prosecuting white collar crime. The only people that get away with it are connected mainlanders. I'll leave you to guess why that might be.

If a mainlander without guanxi is caught up to no good, they'll get hammered either in the mainland or Hong Kong. Extradition is about increasing the reach of Beijing's legal system, which if you knew much about it, would agree is an extremely bad thing for HK residents.

Why do the "connected mainlanders" and their "dirty money" need to use Hong Kong, surely if they are so well connected they could simply use Shanghai.

Yurt2 · 15-08-2019 12:56pm

archer22 wrote: »

Why do the "connected mainlanders" and their "dirty money" need to use Hong Kong, surely if they are so well connected they could simply use Shanghai.

Shanghai is not as yet an international financial centre and banks there are subject to capital controls.

Why do you think black Russian money tries to find a home in Switzerland or London? Significant and suspicious flows of money from places like China attract a lot of scrutiny from regulators and prosecutors in places like the US and Europe, and with good reason.

Gatling · 15-08-2019 1:02pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Shanghai is not as yet an international financial centre and banks there are subject to capital controls.

Why do you think black Russian money tries to find a home in Switzerland or London? Significant and suspicious flows of money from places like China attract a lot of scrutiny from regulators and prosecutors in places like the US and Europe.

Sure the same posters said the same about the Ukrainian protesters that wanted rid of its russian leadership,
It's the CIA ,FBI M16

Any here we are again

Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

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