Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

Greaney · 12-08-2019 02:02PM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Not possible- Tuam travellers, and the Claremorris commuter, would have to dismount and take the foot bridge over the track, change in Athenry to catch the next Dublin (or Limerick)-Galway service.

That's what normally happens at a rail junction.

end of the road · 12-08-2019 02:12PM

jackofalltrades wrote: »

You could take a bus.

Great if you prefer taking the train over taking a bus, then pay the difference in what it costs to run the service.

This country desperately needs a system that quantifies the value of a service and therein the level of subsidy that it receives.

we do pay the difference in terms of what it costs to run the service. from our taxes.
funnily enough we also in some cases pay for the buses traveling along the same route as the train, and for the specific buses we don't pay for, we pay the infrastructure costs for them. but that is fine within reason, as all of the services we use are subsidized in some form.
we already have a system that quantifies the value of a service and therein the level of subsidy that it receives. the rail network we have is valuable and allows us long term to move away from our massively dependant, hugely expensive, unsustainable 1960s model of road being the only answer to everything, which doesn't work. every other country has woken up to the reality that road and rail is the only way. the subsidy the rail network receives here is tiny and it is money well spent.
the poster you replied to cannot get a bus as a bus just doesn't and cannot meet his needs, the same with anyone else who doesn't use bus transport.

Muckyboots wrote: »

Not possible- Tuam travellers, and the Claremorris commuter, would have to dismount and take the foot bridge over the track, change in Athenry to catch the next Dublin (or Limerick)-Galway service. It's just not a runner. Tuam doesn't want or need this kind of broken transport option. A greenway into Athenry is a much better proposal. The single track from Athenry to Galway is a barrier to more frequent services and a double looped track should be installed long before adding an unproven line in for the Mayo dot joiners.

there is nothing to show that any of this is the case.
the more likely option is reversal of the train from tuam at athenry, something that isn't really an issue given the line would be ran with multiple units.

Deleted User wrote: »

On the contrary. The extension from Ennis to Athenry did more damage to the cause of rail development than anything anyone else might say or do.

it only did damage to the cause of rail as the powers that be were looking for an excuse for the cause of rail to be damaged. if it wasn't ennis athenry it would have been something else.

end of the road · 12-08-2019 02:35PM

serfboard wrote: »

I have been on that service when it did the journey from Limerick to Galway in 1 hour and 15 minutes.

that's great, but i'd bet that was in perfect conditions?

serfboard wrote: »

No intention of using a bus? So the rest of the citizens of this country should massively subsidise your journey simply because you prefer not to use a bus?

they aren't massively subsidizing any non-road journeys, and especially not because people cannot have their needs met by bus. they are paying a small subsidy for non-road journeys to remove usership from the roads where possible so as to allow the capacity of the roads to go a lot further before any expansion is needed, due to the expensive costs of road construction, and the land take that such needs.

serfboard wrote: »

Completely ignorant statement. There are 40 buses a day from Tuam to Galway - how many more do you want?

a good rail service either heavy or light to clear some of the traffic from the roads.

serfboard wrote: »

That's a hilarious comment from someone who either has never read WOT statements or comments, or is projecting.

well to be fair, i have saw enough of such comments over the years myself across sites to say that sligo eye has a point.

Greaney · 12-08-2019 02:46PM

MayoForSam · 12-08-2019 03:09PM

In the next 20 years, public transport will probably move away from both private car ownership and a rigid rail network toward a more fluid, autonomous vehicle network which will be more environmentally friendly and make better use of our public thoroughfares. Better broadband infrastructure will mean less commuters and students having to travel into urban centres on a regular basis.

If I was in in charge of public investment in Ireland, I would be very reluctant to spend 100's of millions of taxpayer's money on trying to upgrade an antiquated rail network linking low population areas north of Athenry when we have just invested heavily in the M18 motorway and the demand is simply not there. I commute daily northwards from Tuam to north Mayo and unfortunately a train will never meet my needs. Similarly my daughter will soon be starting college in either Galway or Limerick and the established private bus service from Tuam will drop her right beside her destination, something the train will never be able to do.

westtip · 12-08-2019 03:21PM

Sligo eye wrote: »

And again you are missing the point about providing railway services. In most countries infrastructure drives development rather than the development driving infrastructure.

I do note the rather hysterical tone coming from those who choose to spend time online attacking railway development. It’s clear that they now realise the Greenway proposals are widely seen as purely an attempt to stop development in the West. We all know that dream is over; it would seem that they realise it is too.

Welcome back Sligo Eye, Post 16 well done. Nothing hysterical, nobody is attacking railway development, criticising bad development yes.

jackofalltrades · 12-08-2019 03:28PM

cdaly_ wrote: »

Can Bus Eireann coaches take wheelchairs now?

From Bus Eireann's website

The overall percentage of wheelchair accessible vehicles within the Bus reann fleet will continue to grow in line with investment in new vehicles.
As it currently stands the bus fleet that operates on City and Town services is 100% wheelchair accessible, and the coach fleet that operates on Commuter and Expressway services is 78% wheelchair accessible.
Overall the quantity of wheelchair accessible vehicles in the Bus Eireann service fleet is 86%.

Long story short, yes they can.

Muckyboots · 12-08-2019 03:33PM

Greaney wrote: »

Watched that, thanks. No- I still think a greenway is a far better proposal for Athenry.

jackofalltrades · 12-08-2019 03:59PM

end of the road wrote: »

they aren't massively subsidizing any non-road journeys...

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the subsidy on the current section of the WRC not in the hundreds of Euro?

Sligo eye · 12-08-2019 05:37PM

westtip wrote: »

Welcome back Sligo Eye, Post 16 well done. Nothing hysterical, nobody is attacking railway development, criticising bad development yes.

My dear Westtip, old chap, dear boy, it’s all about quality not quantity. I must admit I have far more important things to do in my life than to actually spend time counting people’s social media posts.

Sligo eye · 12-08-2019 05:38PM

Greaney wrote: »

Look, there are other options and strategies to develop greenways around Athenry. I attended the meeting that happened before the one in the Raheen woods where we looked at easements etc. Some of us are currently looking at rights of way and roads that have 'disappeared' from public view. Linking to the Dublin-Galway velo would be smart. Personally, I'm giving The Quietman Greenway campaign a wide berth, it's quiet a negative campaign.

As for rail doing damage, I'm stunned at how you came to that conclusion. The Pres is jammed with cars every morning. They really are a huge disruption to the residents of Ballygarraun parking in front of gates etc. (maybe the new road being open will ease that now). I'd love to see the cycle & rail use developed more. I know students come from Oranmore, Craughwell/Ardrahan, and Attymon to go to school there.

Remember, the Western Rail Corridor have had folk lobbying on it for over 20 years. The Quietman greenway's been on the go for a year.

Well said. And as a wiser man than I once said, you catch more flies with a spoonful of honey than a barrellful of vinegar....

Del.Monte · 12-08-2019 08:15PM

No irrational posting on that page. Facts, facts and more facts. :rolleyes:

westtip · 13-08-2019 08:42AM

Greaney wrote: »

Remember, the Western Rail Corridor have had folk lobbying on it for over 20 years. The Quietman greenway's been on the go for a year.

Yep 20 years of failed argument.

Re QMG campaign only been on the go for a year, please do not try to patronise us with plattitudes and pats on the head.

I personally have been in touch with the Tuam greenway campaign for over ten years, a group has been lobbying for the greenway in East Galway for at least that long.

The campaign in Sligo/Mayo has been ongoing since 2007, the first real public reference to the idea, somewhat ironically came at a West on Track conference! I was invited to attend that conference as a guest of Eamon O'Cuiv; West on Track did not know I was in the room and I have never thanked them for the lunch they bought me, anyway Minister O'Cuiv inserted a sentence I gave him for his speech:

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?”

- A Good question Mr O’Cuiv ten years later and why not?

The greenway campaign has met with and had a dialogue with the Department of Transport for over ten years and there isn't a single county councillor from Sligo to Galway that has not heard from us, and many who have engaged with us favourably.

So please get your facts right, The Quiet Man Greenway and the entire Western Rail Trail campaign has been running for a lot more than a year, if we had managed to achieve what we have in only a year, we would be the most amazing lobby group ever!

TCDStudent1 · 13-08-2019 10:07AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The cries of bullying, good grief, its an opposing view, one shared by the majority in Tuam and Athenry. You may not like it. Every time the greenway voice grows there are cries of bullying from WOT folks. Simply being used as a distraction, I'll not speak to it any further than that.

As for the spend by the over 55's, you need to move with the times, the demographics you want to be targeting are those from 25 - 45. Those are the big spenders.

As for politicians, there have been downright dirty moves made by some who paid for it dearly with their seats at the last election. There's one other who will be losing his seat at the next election too.

I follow the greenway group on Facebook. Some of the comments after the council vote a few months back disgusted me. There were people on that group advocating boycotting of businesses in Tuam. To me, that was going very close to bullying. It also blatantly ignored people who work in the business relying on it for a wage etc.

I'd love to see a greenway in Tuam. As somebody who regularly runs & cycles the roads of Tuam, I would probably use it more than anybody else on this thread. However, the reaction to that vote (and I know the councillors pulled a fast one that day) made me feel very uneasy about the greenway group.

end of the road · 13-08-2019 11:25AM

westtip wrote: »

Yep 20 years of failed argument.

Re QMG campaign only been on the go for a year, please do not try to patronise us with plattitudes and pats on the head.

I personally have been in touch with the Tuam greenway campaign for over ten years, a group has been lobbying for the greenway in East Galway for at least that long.

The campaign in Sligo/Mayo has been ongoing since 2007, the first real public reference to the idea, somewhat ironically came at a West on Track conference! I was invited to attend that conference as a guest of Eamon O'Cuiv; West on Track did not know I was in the room and I have never thanked them for the lunch they bought me, anyway Minister O'Cuiv inserted a sentence I gave him for his speech:

Eamon O’Cuiv: In a speech at a conference about the Western Rail Corridor in May 2009. Mr O’Cuiv when Minister for Community and Gaeltacht affairs said:

“should we use the section of the railway line north of Claremorris as a walkway and cycleway while it is not open as railway?” - A Good question Mr O’Cuiv ten years later and why not?

The greenway campaign has met with and had a dialogue with the Department of Transport for over ten years and there isn't a single county councillor from Sligo to Galway that has not heard from us, and many who have engaged with us favourably.

So please get your facts right, The Quiet Man Greenway and the entire Western Rail Trail campaign has been running for a lot more than a year, if we had managed to achieve what we have in only a year, we would be the most amazing lobby group ever!

20 years of failed arguments yet they got back the through limerick galway trains. so much for failed arguments. failed arguments don't get lines reopened and they got this part reopened at least. and they will probably get tuam as well.

westtip · 13-08-2019 11:25AM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

However, the reaction to that vote (and I know the councillors pulled a fast one that day) made me feel very uneasy about the greenway group.

What were they supposed to do, say ok lads you pulled a stroke there, sure that's all right so. A lot of people were very angry with what happened last September in the council chamber and vented that anger on social media, hardly surprising when 3,000 people turned out on the streets of Tuam in a protest march, unprecedented for such a campaign, and the next day the councillors opposed to the greenway to it as you say pulled a fast one. When dirty tricks are used against you, tough luck if some dirty tricks come back on you.

Its all semantics anyway, very soon this whole thing will be done and dusted.

westtip · 13-08-2019 11:50AM

end of the road wrote: »

20 years of failed arguments yet they got back the through limerick galway trains. so much for failed arguments. failed arguments don't get lines reopened and they got this part reopened at least. and they will probably get tuam as well.

Give them credit they did indeed get that built, a slow service along a single track alignment that is not successful based on the performance against the business case, is indeed failed argument. Then place the context of the time it was built, those days are not coming back anytime soon. The argument to reopen the line was based on policy that came out of the McCann report - the team writing that report was essentially a West on Track working group, just look at the membership of the so called "expert" working group.

But hats off they achieved that much, but therein lies the problem, the failed arguments that got that line open resulted in failure, which is why you are oh so wrong about Tuam.

As far as I am aware no members of West on Track work for EY consulting? Do they please tell me the high priest is not on their project team.

TCDStudent1 · 13-08-2019 12:20PM

westtip wrote: »

What were they supposed to do, say ok lads you pulled a stroke there, sure that's all right so. A lot of people were very angry with what happened last September in the council chamber and vented that anger on social media, hardly surprising when 3,000 people turned out on the streets of Tuam in a protest march, unprecedented for such a campaign, and the next day the councillors opposed to the greenway to it as you say pulled a fast one. When dirty tricks are used against you, tough luck if some dirty tricks come back on you.

Its all semantics anyway, very soon this whole thing will be done and dusted.

Be angry in a more constructive way instead of going on social media advocating the boycott of certain businesses. Who would suffer the most by this? It is the employees of that business who may or may not care about the greenway debate. If I was an employee there, I am pretty sure I would be upset by reading such things. It is their livelihood after all.

In fairness, I think it was either Ciaran Cannon or Karey McHugh advised the group to show some restraint.

westtip · 13-08-2019 12:36PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Be angry in a more constructive way instead of going on social media advocating the boycott of certain businesses. Who would suffer the most by this? It is the employees of that business who may or may not care about the greenway debate. If I was an employee there, I am pretty sure I would be upset by reading such things. It is their livelihood after all.

In fairness, I think it was either Ciaran Cannon or Karey McHugh advised the group to show some restraint.

I agree there was local anger and people shooting off ideas like the boycott of certain businesses, and the page admins of QMG did a good job to curtail it, but can't you understand their anger? 3,000 people on the street on a Sunday afternoon and the very next day some of the local cllrs shafted them? One of the cllrs Tom Mchugh lost his seat by the narrowest of margins, and there is little doubt his stance on the greenway damaged him, having said one of the greatest advocates also lost his seat; it is going to be interesting to see if the greenway has any sway on the GE, my gut feeling is that Canney will retain his seat, but he may lose votes over the greenway that could make the difference in the end, one thing is for certain many people have taken note of his stance on this issue and it may cause him problems.

TCDStudent1 · 13-08-2019 01:23PM

westtip wrote: »

I agree there was local anger and people shooting off ideas like the boycott of certain businesses, and the page admins of QMG did a good job to curtail it, but can't you understand their anger? 3,000 people on the street on a Sunday afternoon and the very next day some of the local cllrs shafted them? One of the cllrs Tom Mchugh lost his seat by the narrowest of margins, and there is little doubt his stance on the greenway damaged him, having said one of the greatest advocates also lost his seat; it is going to be interesting to see if the greenway has any sway on the GE, my gut feeling is that Canney will retain his seat, but he may lose votes over the greenway that could make the difference in the end, one thing is for certain many people have taken note of his stance on this issue and it may cause him problems.

Absolutely I can. I read about what happened that day. I was just incredibly disappointed in how a lot of people on that group conveyed their anger. I lost a lot of respect for that group when I read some of the comments that were written on that week. And I say this as somebody who would love to see a greenway in Tuam.

serfboard · 13-08-2019 01:38PM

end of the road wrote: »

20 years of failed arguments yet they got back the through limerick galway trains. so much for failed arguments. failed arguments don't get lines reopened and they got this part reopened at least. and they will probably get tuam as well.

Indeed they did, but that was at a time when we were only €60 Billion in debt, Michael McDowell was saying that we had so much money that we should abolish stamp duty, and Bertie was throwing money around like snuff at a wake.

Those days are long, long gone, and are not coming back. Now we are over €200 Billion in debt and each project must go through a rigorous cost-benefit-analysis.

Given that, Tuam will not get rebuilt as a rail line, or at least not in the next 50 years. In the meantime, why not use the line as a Greenway?

Sligo eye · 13-08-2019 01:51PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Absolutely I can. I read about what happened that day. I was just incredibly disappointed in how a lot of people on that group conveyed their anger. I lost a lot of respect for that group when I read some of the comments that were written on that week. And I say this as somebody who would love to see a greenway in Tuam.

What kind of sick mind considers this a valid comment?

https://ibb.co/v1QVD8x

CatInABox · 13-08-2019 01:58PM

westtip wrote: »

I agree there was local anger and people shooting off ideas like the boycott of certain businesses, and the page admins of QMG did a good job to curtail it, but can't you understand their anger? 3,000 people on the street on a Sunday afternoon and the very next day some of the local cllrs shafted them? One of the cllrs Tom Mchugh lost his seat by the narrowest of margins, and there is little doubt his stance on the greenway damaged him, having said one of the greatest advocates also lost his seat; it is going to be interesting to see if the greenway has any sway on the GE, my gut feeling is that Canney will retain his seat, but he may lose votes over the greenway that could make the difference in the end, one thing is for certain many people have taken note of his stance on this issue and it may cause him problems.

I'd say he'll lose more votes over the fact that he formulates all his policies at expensive restaurants and then expenses it.

end of the road · 13-08-2019 02:08PM

serfboard wrote: »

Indeed they did, but that was at a time when we were only €60 Billion in debt, Michael McDowell was saying that we had so much money that we should abolish stamp duty, and Bertie was throwing money around like snuff at a wake.

Those days are long, long gone, and are not coming back. Now we are over €200 Billion in debt and each project must go through a rigorous cost-benefit-analysis.

Given that, Tuam will not get rebuilt as a rail line, or at least not in the next 50 years. In the meantime, why not use the line as a Greenway?

because there are other projects actually deserving of any funding for cycling infrastructure, and which would bring bang for the buck, unlike this particular greenway proposal. the towns along the line who want a greenway so badly can find their own green spaces to create their own greenways. the railway line land is a railway even if it is out of use currently.

westtip · 13-08-2019 02:57PM

CatInABox wrote: »

I'd say he'll lose more votes over the fact that he formulates all his policies at expensive restaurants and then expenses it.

I hadn't heard about that what has he been upto?:D

serfboard · 13-08-2019 04:27PM

end of the road wrote: »

because there are other projects actually deserving of any funding for cycling infrastructure, and which would bring bang for the buck, unlike this particular greenway proposal.

The best bang for the buck comes from converting unused/abandoned railway lines as the line to Tuam is.

end of the road wrote: »

the railway line land is a railway even if it is out of use currently.

Good man. Dog in the manger. "It's OUR land", declare the railway advocates. Well it's not, actually. It's public land. And, as the march in Tuam clearly showed, the public want this land to be used as a Greenway.

Muckyboots · 13-08-2019 04:40PM

end of the road wrote: »

because there are other projects actually deserving of any funding for cycling infrastructure, and which would bring bang for the buck, unlike this particular greenway proposal. the towns along the line who want a greenway so badly can find their own green spaces to create their own greenways. the railway line land is a railway even if it is out of use currently.

Some day a Minister for Transport with balls will issue an abandonment order for this "currently out of use" railway "because it's costing the state too much money to maintain and the locals can't agree on what to do with it". It'll be nestled quietly in the planning permissions section in a regional newspaper and will get about ten minutes of coverage on national media, with a few old fogies and a priest thumping their chests. That'll be the..... end of the road.

Sligo eye · 13-08-2019 05:00PM

Muckyboots wrote: »

Some day a Minister for Transport with balls will issue an abandonment order for this "currently out of use" railway "because it's costing the state too much money to maintain and the locals can't agree on what to do with it". It'll be nestled quietly in the planning permissions section in a regional newspaper and will get about ten minutes of coverage on national media, with a few old fogies and a priest thumping their chests. That'll be the..... end of the road.

Nope. It’s coming back, the West’s on Track!

13-08-2019 05:05PM

Sligo eye wrote: »

What kind of sick mind considers this a valid comment?

https://ibb.co/v1QVD8x

No sense of humour?

13-08-2019 05:05PM

Sligo eye wrote: »

Nope. It’s coming back, the West’s on Track!

Oops, looks like you do have a sense of humour after all, that certainly made me laugh

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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