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Cycle Lane on Talbot Memorial Bridge

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245

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    #32
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users Posts: 3,578 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    going by the reaction of supposed city centre traders, trips for 50 inch flatscreens must make up half the shopping trips into the city centre. seems to be the de facto 'but i need to get my car into the city centre' excuse, and is demonstrably an absurd example to use.

    even though (as far as i am aware) most retailers selling them stock them in warehouses out around the M50, not in the city centre.

    Bar Arnotts Furniture, I don't think anyone is stocking bulky items in Dublin City anymore.
    And even then, it's probably just a show room


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    #33
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    arnott's warehouse is out on the old airport road, and i think when you buy anything bulky, it's shipped to you, rather than you trying to wrestle a 50 inch TV into your car. which you'd probably need a large car for anyway.


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    #34
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    magicbastarder wrote: »

    even though (as far as i am aware) most retailers selling them stock them in warehouses out around the M50, not in the city centre.

    Good point, buy them in the warehouse & then wait as they magically teleport them back into the city centre apts............... Engage!!


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    #35
    cdaly_
    Registered Users Posts: 6,440 ✭✭✭cdaly_


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Traffic Evaporation

    Induced demand - granted this is from the UK but no reason to think it wouldn't apply in Ireland.
    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Agreed cars are not efficient when it comes to space taken up. In fact they are woefully inefficient as most cars have one occupant.

    The point still remains though that people are going to use their car no matter what. So there needs to be a balance.

    I also agree that public areas are nice places, however the traffic needs to go somewhere.
    You're just moving the problem somewhere else.

    I think we need to solve the problem not move it.
    See 'Traffic Evaporation' above.
    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Yes but them using their cars impacts everyone else.
    Their problem effectively becomes my problem.
    So they should get lowest priority in a city.


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    #36
    average_runner
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Was the bridge down by the CHQ made for cyclists and pedestrians?

    If there is a cycling lane on talbot bridge and can they make the chq bridge pedestrian only. Cyclists seem to think they rule that bridge and give no way to pedestrians on it.


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    #37
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    forumlover wrote: »
    Good point, buy them in the warehouse & then wait as they magically teleport them back into the city centre apts............... Engage!!
    i'm struggling to understand your actual point. what has buying 50 inch TVs got to do with cycling not being efficient?


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    #38
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    average_runner wrote: »
    Was the bridge down by the CHQ made for cyclists and pedestrians?
    pedestrian only, AFAIK.


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    #39
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Dublin city council have made another interesting adjustment to the roads infrastructure in Dublin.
    They've removed a lane of traffic on the Talbot Memorial Bridge and added a cycle lane :confused:

    I came in on the Motorcycle today (first time in months, sorry if I'm late to the party on this :o ) and thought t myself:
    It's 7:15am, kids are off school, should be grand going in on the bike

    No such luck, traffic backed up as far as Annesley Bridge. Got into work (Harcourt St) around 7.50am, which is a joke for someone on a motorcycle. The hold up was on Traffic merging on Talbot Memorial Bridge and Memorial Road which had Bus lane added last year I think.

    The Schools open up next month the traffic in that part of the city is going to be the worst it's ever been.
    I'm all for cycle infrastructure, I think it's a good idea. But not at the expense of other road users.

    The thing Dublin councilors just don't seem to get is that: Irish People like their cars, and are prepared to sit in them for 3 or 4 hours a day rather than use public transport. And that's not gonna change.

    The thing that, if you make things slower for motorists, it will inadvertently have a knock on affect on public transport and make it slower.
    It also makes it slower for people that are on more efficient modes of transport IE: Motorcycles, Bicycles, Mopeds etc.
    And it also creates more pollution.

    I even believe that if they put a congestion charge in Dublin which the canals as the barrier, you'd still have the same amount of traffic coming into Dublin City centre. Because people want to use their cars.

    I get that if you build more roads and make it easier for motorists to get in and out of town, you will inevitably attract more cars into town, so that's not really an option either.
    There was a report out earlier that year that Dubliners spend more time in Traffic than nearly every other country.

    Something needs to be done, but what!? :confused:
    We can't keep going they way are.

    BTW I used the DART 99% of the time!

    Already way too much space for cars. If people want to sit in cars for 4 hours, fine, they should be taxed into oblivion for doing so and be banned from doing so if they drive diesel, because the rest of us don't want cancer from their illogical choices.


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    #40
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not if you want to go to Cork today! Cycling is only "efficient" if an average cyclist doesn't have much more than 10Km each way. Really, why exactly would they suddenly do that?

    Extreme whataboutary. Anybody going to Cork is wasting their time on Talbot Bridge. The vast majority of commutes are under 10km.


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    #41
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Cant help but notice the junction of Pearse Street and Lombard street is being messed around with now, presumbaly pedestrians at a crazy busy juntion being squeezed in even more for a bike lane


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    #42
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i'm struggling to understand your actual point. what has buying 50 inch TVs got to do with cycling not being efficient?

    Cycling is efficient, but so are vehicles. Vehicles can carry extra passengers & goods. Bicycles are limited in what they can carry. Closing off a lane to traffic on one of the busiest routes into the city is madness.


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    #43
    5ide5h0w
    Registered Users Posts: 7 ✭5ide5h0w


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    pedestrian only, AFAIK.

    Yeah the Sean O'Casey bridge is Pedestrian only


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    #44
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Fair point,
    They need to build them somewhere!

    However I think they should be avoided on choke points such Bridges etc.

    Choke points are where they are needed the most so that cyclists can bypass all the cars.
    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Like they could have built another cycling only bridge there.

    At what cost? there is pleanty of space on the existing bridge, it's just a matter of re-allocating space from the most inefficient user, the single occupant car, and giving it over to the second most efficient user, the cycling commuter.


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    #45
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    I'm all for cycle infrastructure, I think it's a good idea. But not at the expense of other road users.
    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    The point still remains though that people are going to use their car no matter what. So there needs to be a balance.

    Indeed, there should be balance. And even with changes made it is still weighted far, far too heavily in the direction of private motorists. Having twice or three times as much road space as public transport and cyclists is not "balance".

    There is no solution that will allow people to drive smoothly and quickly into and through the city centre and it shouldn't be (and isn't thankfully) an aim of DCC or the govt.


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    #46
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    forumlover wrote: »
    Cycling is efficient, but so are vehicles. Vehicles can carry extra passengers & goods. Bicycles are limited in what they can carry.
    the average occupancy of a private car in rush hour traffic in the city centre is approx. 1.2 occupants. to compare, a nearly empty bus - with only three passengers - is a more efficient use of space than two private cars.

    but let's take your point and run with it - private cars would be much more efficient if they were full, rather than the majority being occupied by the driver. so we should ban single occupancy vehicles from the city centre.

    i'm joking, but again, i don't know what your point is. you're talking about hypothetical situations which don't actually apply in reality.

    how many full private cars do you normally see in the morning driving into the city centre? and when was the last time you had to transport a 50 inch TV out of the city centre?


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    #47
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Beta Ray Bill wrote: »
    Agreed cars are not efficient when it comes to space taken up. In fact they are woefully inefficient as most cars have one occupant.

    The point still remains though that people are going to use their car no matter what. So there needs to be a balance.

    I also agree that public areas are nice places, however the traffic needs to go somewhere.
    You're just moving the problem somewhere else.

    I think we need to solve the problem not move it.

    I don't have a solution to this btw
    Owning a vehicle is very expensive, public transport works out way cheaper - So cost/taxation hasn't/won't fix the issue
    Public transport is also faster (most of the time) and less polluting - So speed/efficiency hasn't/won't fix the issue
    People just want their private space and are prepared to make it crap for cyclists, motorcyclists, Pedestrians, etc to get it.

    It's weird.
    Are you saying we should ban cars outright? I think you're onto something there but I'd limit the area the ban applies to. There isn't a real need for car commuters on Aston Quay or Bachelors walk for example.


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    #48
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    forumlover wrote: »
    I drive into the city regularly for work purposes. Other than that I stay away. Pedestrianizing & adding more cycle lanes into and around the city is great for the local people, but an absolute nightmare for local businesses. Traffic times are awful, parking is impossible & avoiding the lunatic two wheeled warriors & jaywalkers is lethal. Red lights are for more than just cars.
    Anyhoo, for all you eco-warriors out there, Good Luck getting your 50 inch flat screen home, on the back of your bike.

    Yes, Everyone in their deisel cars heading into the centre of Dublin between 7.30 and 9 am to pick up a flat screen tv every single day. Makes sense.


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    #49
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    an aside - i remember years ago there was utter gridlock in the city centre - as in cars simply not moving for up to an hour at a time, on christmas eve.
    the head of DCC at the time was on the radio a few days later, and was asked in sombre tones what he would like to say in motorists caught up in this, did he feel like an apology might be apt?
    his response was (i'm paraphrasing, this was probably more than 15 years ago) 'if you're expecting me to apologise to people who decided to wait to do their christmas shopping in the city centre on the very last shopping day before christmas, i don't know what to say to you. they had it coming'.


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    #50
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    forumlover wrote: »
    Cycling is efficient, but so are vehicles. Vehicles can carry extra passengers & goods. Bicycles are limited in what they can carry.

    'Can' being a key word. Average vehicle occupancy is 1.2 persons, a horrific waste of resources, even compared to an old diesel bus.
    forumlover wrote: »
    Closing off a lane to traffic on one of the busiest routes into the city is madness.

    No it isn't. The cycle lane will move more people to where they want to go than the car lane will. We see this on Bachelor's walk in the morning, where cyclists outnumber cars but cars have all the road space assigned to them.


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    #51
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Yes, Everyone in their deisel cars heading into the centre of Dublin between 7.30 and 9 am to pick up a flat screen tv every single day. Makes sense.

    It was an example. Cars, vans & trucks are used to transport many things in & out of the city. The majority of bicycles transport a single person.


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    #52
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    forumlover wrote: »
    It was an example. Cars, vans & trucks are used to transport many things in & out of the city. The majority of bicycles transport a single person.

    So do the majority of vehicles. Just less efficiently.


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    #53
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    magicbastarder wrote: »

    how many full private cars do you normally see in the morning driving into the city centre? and when was the last time you had to transport a 50 inch TV out of the city centre?

    I see a lot more private cars carrying passengers than any cyclists carrying them, & never have I had to transport a TV out of the city, but for those living in the city, who buy a TV or any other bulky object htf do you think it gets delivered. Because it's not on a bike. Vehicles will always need to get in & out of the city. Closing off a lane on a major route increases travel time for many vehicles.


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    #54
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,961 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    going by the reaction of supposed city centre traders, trips for 50 inch flatscreens must make up half the shopping trips into the city centre. seems to be the de facto 'but i need to get my car into the city centre' excuse, and is demonstrably an absurd example to use.

    even though (as far as i am aware) most retailers selling them stock them in warehouses out around the M50, not in the city centre.

    Arnotts and Currys in Jervis are the only places I suspect sell any volume of large TVs in the city centre anyway

    I have a suitably sized car for someone who lives near a city. You won't fit a 50" TV in it without severe contortions and possibly taking it out of the box. Any bigger is a no-go


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    #55
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,797 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    forumlover wrote: »
    Closing off a lane on a major route increases travel time for many vehicles.

    So what? It decreases travel time for lots of people as well.

    And anyone driving during rush hour to buy bulky items and bring them home hasn't planned very well.


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    #56
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    So what? It decreases travel time for lots of people as well.

    How? There's enough cycle lanes in the city as it is, & half the time they just use the roads anyway.


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    #57
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    forumlover wrote: »
    How? There's enough cycle lanes in the city as it is, & half the time they just use the roads anyway.

    Thats cause there's usually a car parked in the cycle lane.


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    #58
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    Salary Negotiator wrote: »
    Thats cause there's usually a car parked in the cycle lane.

    Maybe he's collecting his 50" TV :)


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    #59
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    forumlover wrote: »
    It was an example. Cars, vans & trucks are used to transport many things in & out of the city. The majority of bicycles transport a single person.

    I'm sure there's a point somewhere.


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    #60
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,301 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    forumlover wrote: »
    I see a lot more private cars carrying passengers than any cyclists carrying them, & never have I had to transport a TV out of the city, but for those living in the city, who buy a TV or any other bulky object htf do you think it gets delivered. Because it's not on a bike. Vehicles will always need to get in & out of the city. Closing off a lane on a major route increases travel time for many vehicles.

    I'll wait a half hour for my tv to be delivered once every 10 years, thanks. The daily commute on the bike or on the bus is more important. I don't have hours to waste on a daily basis.


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    #61
    forumlover
    Registered Users Posts: 40 ✭forumlover


    cgcsb wrote: »
    I'm sure there's a point somewhere.

    If you can find it, let me know.


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