Digital Gaming Explosion - Natural evolution or runaway train?

ILoveYourVibes · 01-08-2019 10:51PM

If you are making 3million from gaming 7 days a week its good. If you are making zilch from gaming and gaming 7 days a week its bad. Simples.

Irish Guitarist · 01-08-2019 10:52PM

Years ago your brother or sister would be playing Centipede or something on the Atari and you'd have to wait patiently for them to die so you could have a go. Now people go on Twitch to watch complete strangers play a game and even donate money to them. I don't get it but if people want to be stupid that's up to them.

Tell me how · 01-08-2019 10:58PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If you are making 3million from gaming 7 days a week its good. If you are making zilch from gaming and gaming 7 days a week its bad. Simples.

So, from a societal perspective, is it good or bad to have so many playing so much so that some can make upwards of 50K (rising to 3M) over a weekend?

It's not that simple.

Tell me how · 01-08-2019 11:01PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Years ago your brother or sister would be playing Centipede or something on the Atari and you'd have to wait patiently for them to die so you could have a go. Now people go on Twitch to watch complete strangers play a game and even donate money to them. I don't get it but if people want to be stupid that's up to them.

But, these people (players) don't think they are stupid. They can point to the potential rewards as their justification. Very hard for a parent to change that mindset in a child who wants to devote so much time to it.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-08-2019 11:04PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

Years ago your brother or sister would be playing Centipede or something on the Atari and you'd have to wait patiently for them to die so you could have a go. Now people go on Twitch to watch complete strangers play a game and even donate money to them. I don't get it but if people want to be stupid that's up to them.

Really weird ..i am not getting at people who do twitch at all good for them i hope it all goes from strength to strength any new industry is good industry

BUT can you imagine doing this in real life?

Paying or donating money to watch someone play a game?

Tell me how · 01-08-2019 11:06PM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Really weird ..i am not getting at people who do twitch at all good for them i hope it all goes from strength to strength any new industry is good industry

BUT can you imagine doing this in real life?

Paying or donating money to watch someone play a game?

People pay money to watch movies, to watch sports, to listen to music.
Twitch is just a different interface.

The content is still 'art' albeit of a new nature. I can see that much.

I'm not saying I rate it as an art worth paying for but I can see how some are interested in paying to watch.

Irish Guitarist · 01-08-2019 11:19PM

Tell me how wrote: »

People pay money to watch movies, to watch sports, to listen to music.
Twitch is just a different interface.

The content is still 'art' albeit of a new nature. I can see that much.

I'm not saying I rate it as an art worth paying for but I can see how some are interested in paying to watch.

If you want to say games are art fair enough, but the artist would be the person that created the game not the person who plays it. That's like calling someone that watches a film a director.

Tell me how · 01-08-2019 11:21PM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

If you want to say games are art fair enough, but the artist would be the person that created the game not the person who plays it. That's like calling someone that watches a film a director.

Not at all. Someone watching a film has no influence on what appears on screen.

I would say that the person who created the game and the players are collaborating to create the art.

runawaybishop · 01-08-2019 11:35PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

My god $2.4bn is some amount of revenue, it puts it up there with elite sports.

Whats the general premise of the game, Ive only watched it for a minute on Twitch and it was hard to follow but seems like you're building a tower and fighting opponents at the same time or something?

Its mad how popular it is, I know a few parents whose kids are in it up to their necks. They cant get them out of the house. I know from my own gaming days how addictive it can be but back then it was just you in your living room against the computer, when its you against everyone else with prizemoney and prestige at stake it brings it to a whole new level.

People have no idea how much money is in the gaming industry, it's worth about 140 billion yearly.

Avengers Endgame made a billion in 5 days. GTA5 did it in 3. Many analysts believe gaming is where all the money is at, not movies.

paleoperson · 02-08-2019 12:28AM

Tell me how wrote: »

But, these people (players) don't think they are stupid. They can point to the potential rewards as their justification. Very hard for a parent to change that mindset in a child who wants to devote so much time to it.

That's like saying kids watching a lot of football and buying merchandise for it can point to potential rewards as justification the fact that most premier league players could buy their house with one week's wages. Or that people buying and watching a lot of movies/tv can point as justification for it how much money there is in acting.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 12:31AM

paleoperson wrote: »

That's like saying kids watching a lot of football and buying merchandise for it can point to potential rewards as justification the fact that most premier league players could buy their house with one week's wages. Or that people buying and watching a lot of movies/tv can point as justification for it how much money there is in acting.

Yes, a kid could point to pro footballers and say it is worth it, but, they're not playing football as much as some are playing games.
No, it's not like watching a lot tv being justified by money in acting. If the child was trying to act incessantly, they could claim it might ultimately be worth it.

paleoperson · 02-08-2019 01:00AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Yes, a kid could point to pro footballers and say it is worth it, but, they're not playing football as much as some are playing games.

So the hell what? Many kids play football for hours a day. But so what if some of them are playing Fortnite more than they're playing football, what difference does that make to anything? Is it going to increase their chances? No, not if all the other kids are doing the same.

Tell me how wrote: »

No, it's not like watching a lot tv being justified by money in acting. If the child was trying to act incessantly, they could claim it might ultimately be worth it.

It's exactly like watching a lot of tv. Millions and millions of kids dream of being actors or directors. They could justify it just as easily as they justify watching Fortnite. If not as many kids do it then they'll have less competition won't they.

I can't believe I'm involved in such an utterly ridiculous argument. Kids can NOT "justify" their watching of fornite in that way period, and they especially can't justify giving "donations" to people for it.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 01:04AM

paleoperson wrote: »

So the hell what? Many kids play football for hours a day. But so what if some of them are playing Fortnite more than they're playing football, what difference does that make to anything? Is it going to increase their chances? No, not if all the other kids are doing the same.

It's exactly like watching a lot of tv. Millions and millions of kids dream of being actors or directors. They could justify it just as easily as they justify watching Fortnite. If not as many kids do it then they'll have less competition won't they.

I can't believe I'm involved in such an utterly ridiculous argument. Kids can NOT "justify" their watching of fornite in that way period, and they especially can't justify giving "donations" to people for it.

You don't understand the argument.
You're probably better off stepping away from it.

Jody Smoke · 02-08-2019 05:34AM

If people want to play video games that's fine but E-Sports are not sports.

They are not sports for the simple fact that they are not real.

It doesn't actually happen, in every other sport something happens in reality.

You strike a golf ball/tennis ball/football the ball actually moves through the air and something happens.

Everything in an e-sport is based on whether a computer works and is programmed correctly, and the people who porgramme the game do 99% of the work in any e-sport.

There not sports and if people want to play video games that's fine but I wish the media would stand up to the nonsense of them being treated as sports and have a separate section for them and not have them in the same sections as genuine sports,

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 08:01AM

Jody Smoke wrote: »

If people want to play video games that's fine but E-Sports are not sports.

They are not sports for the simple fact that they are not real.

It doesn't actually happen, in every other sport something happens in reality.

You strike a golf ball/tennis ball/football the ball actually moves through the air and something happens.

Everything in an e-sport is based on whether a computer works and is programmed correctly, and the people who porgramme the game do 99% of the work in any e-sport.

There not sports and if people want to play video games that's fine but I wish the media would stand up to the nonsense of them being treated as sports and have a separate section for them and not have them in the same sections as genuine sports,

The same thing was probably said about cricket/football/Athletics etc being different to the traditional sports of hunting and fishing.

Jody Smoke · 02-08-2019 08:21AM

Tell me how wrote: »

The same thing was probably said about cricket/football/Athletics etc being different to the traditional sports of hunting and fishing.

E-sports nothing happens in reality, it's a simulation based on a computer programme.

You strike a cricket ball with the the bat the ball moves.

You kick a football the ball moves.

You move your legs you move.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 08:27AM

Jody Smoke wrote: »

E-sports nothing happens in reality, it's a simulation based on a computer programme.

You strike a cricket ball with the the bat the ball moves.

You kick a football the ball moves.

You move your legs you move.

I think you're missing my point.
The concept of sport previously evolved from what it was understood to be and could do so again.

I don't like the idea of empty playing fields while people play 'sport' online, but I'm afraid I can see such a development happening all too easily.

chris_ie · 02-08-2019 08:33AM

I agree that is shouldn't be called eSports. When I first saw the eSports term it was when they were advertising FIFA gaming tournamets. I figured it was just because it was a football game that they termed it eSports. But I don't think it fits all gaming.

With regards to the whole twitch and kids watching other people play games. I don't really get it either, although in saying that, I have watched a YouTube video of a guy playing a game with others and it was funny as hell. In that case it wasn't so much the game it was their conversation and what they were making happen in the game, granted I haven't watched others since that.

If millions of people (its not just kids) watch people play games, then its an form of entertainment. Personally, I dont understand why people would pay to watch cricket, (or even watch cricket for free!) but that doesn't mean I'd call them stupid for doing it. It just doesn't interest me. To each their own. There are things that each generation does that the previous scoffs at.

Jody Smoke · 02-08-2019 08:37AM

Tell me how wrote: »

I think you're missing my point.
The concept of sport previously evolved from what it was understood to be and could do so again.

I don't like the idea of empty playing fields while people play 'sport' online, but I'm afraid I can see such a development happening all too easily.

I agree the concept of what a sport is changes but my reason for why e-sports are not and never will be sports is the simply the fact they don't really happen , all the arguments the proponents of e-sports make towards e-sports being real sports and having all the qualities of other sports are defeated by that simple fact.

Tragically I suspect e-sports will supplant real sports in the next few decades and you see it currently with the lack of children playing outside these days compared to 20 years ago.Computers and the internet although they have benefits in my opinion have had a generally negative impact on society at large and peoples mental well being ad there have bene numerous studoies that back this up.Reading books is another activity which cmputers and gaming seems to have eroded aswell.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 08:38AM

chris_ie wrote: »

If millions of people (its not just kids) watch people play games, then its an form of entertainment. Personally, I dont understand why people would pay to watch cricket, (or even watch cricket for free!) but that doesn't mean I'd call them stupid for doing it. It just doesn't interest me. To each their own. There are things that each generation does that the previous scoffs at.

Agreed on generational differences being natural and frequent.

I'm more wondering about the qty very young gamers are playing and wondering is it acceptable or a problem which hasn't shown how damaging it is just yet.

chris_ie · 02-08-2019 08:44AM

Tell me how wrote: »

Agreed on generational differences being natural and frequent.

I'm more wondering about the qty very young gamers are playing and wondering is it acceptable or a problem which hasn't shown how damaging it is just yet.

Thats a good point too, we havent really reached a time where kids who've had video games and internet from a very early age have reached old age yet. I've played games when I was a kid (I'm 36) but it was back in the day of MegaDrives and Super Nintendos. Now with online gaming and all the rest it seems a bit more addictive. I still play the odd time, but just the odd game of FIFA here and there.

Myself and my mates were chatting about it one night. Years ago we used to gather at each others houses and play FIFA, was great craic. We all played online for a while then but that died off. We were just saying how online was nowhere near the craic of meeting up and gaming. Although we are older now too so that might play into it

paleoperson · 02-08-2019 11:03AM

Tell me how wrote: »

I think you're missing my point.
The concept of sport previously evolved from what it was understood to be and could do so again.

Don't worry about that, we understand your attempt at a point very well. It's just that it's totally invalid. You're the one who isn't understanding points other people are making. Cricket is clearly a sport, it could not possibly be interpreted as anything other than a sport by modern usage of the term. It's a lot more of a sport than hunting or fishing. It's a ridiculous statement. And don't even bother coming back saying how in medieval times hunting and fishing were considered the "sports" by old english, we all know what you're talking about and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Don't worry about us not getting it at all, I would worry more about your own understanding.

Popularity is only a small component to determine something becoming a sport, you can have very tiny sports noone has heard of that are still considered sports. Sport must also involve some sort of physicality. Otherwise exams could be termed a sport. Crossword puzzles could be a sport. A lot of people are always trying to get chess to be a sport so it qualifies for sports funding, however it just isn't.

Darts and snooker are on the borderline of what can be considered a sport or not, but they both involve real-life physics and agility. I'm not completely against the idea of some games being considered sports, but they would at least have to have a substantial physical/mechanical component to them, not just a game that is played mainly just in the head. Another difficulty is how for example Epic Games owns the Fortnite universe, they can change the physics or rules however they like. In football they can make changes to the ball and the pitch, but that's pretty much it.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 11:23AM

paleoperson wrote: »

Don't worry about that, we understand your attempt at a point very well. It's just that it's totally invalid. You're the one who isn't understanding points other people are making. Cricket is clearly a sport, it could not possibly be interpreted as anything other than a sport by modern usage of the term. It's a lot more of a sport than hunting or fishing. It's a ridiculous statement. And don't even bother coming back saying how in medieval times hunting and fishing were considered the "sports" by old english, we all know what you're talking about and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Don't worry about us not getting it at all, I would worry more about your own understanding.

Ok, you seem to be stuck in your own argument. Carry on.

Tell me how · 02-08-2019 11:25AM

chris_ie wrote: »

Thats a good point too, we havent really reached a time where kids who've had video games and internet from a very early age have reached old age yet. I've played games when I was a kid (I'm 36) but it was back in the day of MegaDrives and Super Nintendos. Now with online gaming and all the rest it seems a bit more addictive. I still play the odd time, but just the odd game of FIFA here and there.

Myself and my mates were chatting about it one night. Years ago we used to gather at each others houses and play FIFA, was great craic. We all played online for a while then but that died off. We were just saying how online was nowhere near the craic of meeting up and gaming. Although we are older now too so that might play into it

No question our age is influencing our view if what's normal.

I still think the age profile of some young gamers mean they don't realise the potential damage extensive gaming could be doing to them.

Sabre0001 · 02-08-2019 11:34AM

There is a part of me that wishes that esports wasn't the term coined to describe competitive gaming because we just get dragged off into this debate over "what is a sport?" And then there are inevitably comparisons to other sports (darts, chess, snooker, golf, etc.) that are deemed contentious and then we just end up knocking over competitive activities.

Fortnite isn't a game that I have followed particularly closely. I've given it a try, but my experience was nothing happening for ages followed by being killed by the first person I encountered. Never got to grips with the building element in the short time I played it, which seems to be a massive part of it. It has taken over though; professional sports people and celebs have been putting their experiences on social media, and it's making EPIC a tonne of money.

Even though they push the competitive side with competitions like this, they seem to try to shoot it in the foot with changes and additions just before major tournaments.

Stability is an issue with gaming and competitive games to an extent. Balance patches are released regularly to address issues and gamers need new content or they're onto the next big thing. There are games that fly in the face of this, but it's a challenge.

Competitive gaming, esports, etc. are here to stay though. As a whole, there is more structure and stability, and now there are more side gigs that can pay the wage (streaming, YouTube, and now Mixer if you're Ninja and you've just been handed a hefty cheque to jump platforms). Companies and professional sports teams/athletes are getting on board too, beyond the graphics card companies and tech companies that would have been involved - Red Bull, Monster, Manchester City, Ajax, FC Shalke, Los Angeles Lakers, Minnesota Timberwolves, and Golden State Warriors are just a handful of those picking up teams, sponsoring events, etc.

Greyfox · 02-08-2019 12:47PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I still think the age profile of some young gamers mean they don't realise the potential damage extensive gaming could be doing to them.

If there under 18 that's down to the parents to understand there kids hobby and make sure there not gaming too often.

Sabre0001 wrote: »

Fortnite isn't a game that I have followed particularly closely. I've given it a try, but my experience was nothing happening for ages followed by being killed by the first person I encountered. Never got to grips with the building element in the short time I played it, which seems to be a massive part of it.

Same here

game companies need to do more to try to match beginners against other beginners

Tell me how · 03-08-2019 11:16PM

Greyfox wrote: »

If there under 18 that's down to the parents to understand there kids hobby and make sure there not gaming too often.

Hard thing for parents to do when the child is in their room and knows their way around a wifi network better than the parents do

Digital Gaming Explosion - Natural evolution or runaway train?

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