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Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • #7292
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    It's only £1.1Bn the rest is only "if needed"



    I'm still trying to find the EXACT words Boris used about the 20,000 "new" police officers because that's the same number of new police officers needed to maintain existing headcount.


    I am loosing faith in UK investigative reporting.

    Listening to LBC I’ve gathered that the 20,000 police would only bring it back up to pre austerity levels.
    Boris is sellin it as a gift to the nation. When in fact it isn’t.

    He mentioned this in his speech entering number ten


  • #7293
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 95,095 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Listening to LBC I’ve gathered that the 20,000 police would only bring it back up to pre austerity levels.
    Boris is sellin it as a gift to the nation. When in fact it isn’t.

    He mentioned this in his speech entering number ten
    Except that at the historical turnover rate you'd expect 20,000 to leave the service over the next three years.

    To INCREASE the numbers you'd need to hire 40,000.


  • #7294
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Capt'n Midnight wrote: »
    On the other hand UK exports to places like Africa haven't gone up in real terms when you consider the drop in Sterling.

    The biggest change is that UK workers have had their pay packet devalued.

    Tourism to the UK is down 8%, here its down 4% but that's after a record year. The drop in Sterling just isn't translating into extra visits.
    https://www.visitbritain.org/latest-monthly-data-1

    I think it’s about perception- the UK doesn’t not seem a happy stable place now and the last thing holiday makers want is drama and inconvenience. Doesn’t matter if the currency is good value, people don’t overly think about something like that booking a holiday


  • #7295
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.
    Some erg guy on now saying the public is turning against the government about the backstop.unicorns and sunny uplands.oh isn't it a pity we don't bow down to our English better like Bruce Arnold,eoin Harris and Dan O'Brien would like us to do


  • #7296
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,998 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.

    Apparently the public's views are changing...I'm not seeing that from anyone in my day to day life


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  • #7297
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,116 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    Ireland being set up as a scapegoat for the Brexit mess on Newsnight as they continue to seek fissures on the backstop.

    'Perfidious Albion' on stark display.


  • #7298
    feargale
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.

    Well, certainly Leo are Simon are showing some signs of losing their nerve at this stage, like chasing Boris for a phone conversation while he leaves them hanging. Its a dreadful mistake. Having come this far we have to hold tough and face the Brits down. We have the EU with us for what it's worth. The UK are alone, though blissfully under the illusion that they can resurrect the Empire and that Trump will rescue them. With friends like Trump they won't be needing enemies. I would rather be looking to Europe for new markets than to Oceania. And if they put their trust in Trump they will end up as a colony of USA, minus their NHS which Trump despises and has told them they must get rid of. We also have friends in the U.S. Congress who have begun to let Boris and friends know where they stand.


  • #7299
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,686 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Junkyard Tom wrote: »
    Ireland being set up as a scapegoat for the Brexit mess on Newsnight as they continue to seek fissures on the backstop.

    'Perfidious Albion' on stark display.

    40 years ago they were threatening work permits and identity cards for the Irish in Britain and sterling exchange controls and we buckled.

    Will Leo buckle under all they have left - a few nasty articles in the press. In my worst nightmares I hear him making the address to the nation...' on mature reflection we have decided to give in to the British......' but hopefully I am wrong.

    We have to come of age as a nation. We aren't looking to shaft the British here, we are protecting our own, and finally those in northern Ireland we consider our own too. That is going to play massively up north.


  • #7300
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.
    Some erg guy on now saying the public is turning against the government about the backstop.unicorns and sunny uplands.oh isn't it a pity we don't bow down to our English better like Bruce Arnold,eoin Harris and Dan O'Brien would like us to do

    The opposite is happening, no one really thought too much about the Backstop until the English started their predictable anti Irish rhetoric- now its galvanized the ordinary joe soap to absolutely not give an inch on it. Why on earth would the public be turning? A ridiculous notion and shows how much our nations have now diverged. And we ain’t going back


  • #7301
    Shelga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Shelga


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.
    Some erg guy on now saying the public is turning against the government about the backstop.unicorns and sunny uplands.oh isn't it a pity we don't bow down to our English better like Bruce Arnold,eoin Harris and Dan O'Brien would like us to do

    Crispin Blunt, Emily's uncle, who is popping up everywhere these days and is absolutely insufferable. He obviously isn't aware that we get BBC2 over here and every word he says is increasing our support for Leo's stance.

    God, I wanted to throw something at the TV. He also called the Irish government 'inflexible'- the lack of self-awareness is quite incredible, he must have been the one giving Arlene Foster lessons.

    They will never, ever own their mess- even if cancer patients die due to not having medication delivered on time- something Blunt 'hopes won't happen'. Disgrace of a man, disgrace to his nation.


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  • #7302
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    40 years ago they were threatening work permits and identity cards for the Irish in Britain and sterling exchange controls and we buckled.

    Will Leo buckle under all they have left - a few nasty articles in the press. In my worst nightmares I hear him making the address to the nation...' on mature reflection we have decided to give in to the British......' but hopefully I am wrong.

    We have to come of age as a nation. We aren't looking to shaft the British here, we are protecting our own, and finally those in northern Ireland we consider our own too. That is going to play massively up north.

    Leo has his faults but absolutely delighted with his stance on this and wont let these bullies stamp their way as they’ve always done. Not a hope he’ll be addressing the nation like this!


  • #7303
    maebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭maebee


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    They spun their billion pound bribe..what, two years after getting it? This also a preamble to a further two billion bribe/payoff from Boris.
    https://twitter.com/duponline/status/1156654452973166593?s=21

    We are not going to apologise for being bought, even though we're going to be thrown under the bus by our sellers.


  • #7304
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,064 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    One thing I noticed reading English forums with vocal brexiters is that their experience of last dozen years is different to us in Ireland, their austerity nowhere as steep as here, nor was the economic crash as dire. Which might partly explain why they are so gung-ho, they simply do not realise how bad things can get.
    Some of them think that Brexit would mean they can buy a house.

    My view of their austerity program was that it was quite severe and saw cuts to policing and education services which have severely impact on the services provided and the experience of those delivering these services.

    It is possible that such commentators have not had as much involvement with such service providers and so have not seen the impact.

    Also, I understand that unemployment figures for the UK are heavily manipulated in order to present a more favourable picture and that those who end up being allocated to the wrong category are the less qualified and on poorer wages and contracts.

    I haven't lived in the UK in over 10 years so I could be wrong though.


  • #7305
    Tell me how
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,064 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    feargale wrote: »
    Well, certainly Leo are Simon are showing some signs of losing their nerve at this stage, like chasing Boris for a phone conversation while he leaves them hanging. Its a dreadful mistake. Having come this far we have to hold tough and face the Brits down. We have the EU with us for what it's worth. The UK are alone, though blissfully under the illusion that they can resurrect the Empire and that Trump will rescue them. With friends like Trump they won't be needing enemies. I would rather be looking to Europe for new markets than to Oceania. And if they put their trust in Trump they will end up as a colony of USA, minus their NHS which Trump despises and has told them they must get rid of. We also have friends in the U.S. Congress who have begun to let Boris and friends know where they stand.

    That didn't happen.


  • #7306
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 42,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    feargale wrote: »
    Well, certainly Leo are Simon are showing some signs of losing their nerve at this stage, like chasing Boris for a phone conversation while he leaves them hanging.
    No they're not showing signs of buckling. Coveney's tweet earlier showed how calm they are.
    There was no chasing Boris for a call.
    You've been reading the Express too much!


  • #7307
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Tell me how wrote: »
    That didn't happen.

    Exactly. There was no “chasing” just the showing up of the Johnson Pol Pott style regime as the ignorant undiplomatic crass idiots that they are


  • #7308
    declanflynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    road_high wrote: »
    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.
    Some erg guy on now saying the public is turning against the government about the backstop.unicorns and sunny uplands.oh isn't it a pity we don't bow down to our English better like Bruce Arnold,eoin Harris and Dan O'Brien would like us to do

    The opposite is happening, no one really thought too much about the Backstop until the English started their predictable anti Irish rhetoric- now its galvanized the ordinary joe soap to absolutely not give an inch on it. Why on earth would the public be turning? A ridiculous notion and shows how much our nations have now diverged. And we ain’t going back
    I'm a beef farmer and many of my friends are too, we think we depended on one market for too much of our exports for too long a hard brexit who make us face that problem and sort it forever, so the brits can f off and sink in their own ****


  • #7309
    Strazdas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,405 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    correct horse battery staple wrote: »
    One thing I noticed reading English forums with vocal brexiters is that their experience of last dozen years is different to us in Ireland, their austerity nowhere as steep as here, nor was the economic crash as dire. Which might partly explain why they are so gung-ho, they simply do not realise how bad things can get.
    Some of them think that Brexit would mean they can buy a house.

    Yes indeed....it doesn't occur to them that things could get so bad in Britain that the state pension and benefits could be slashed (even though UK law is supposed to prevent this). There is this blind assumption with millions of Leave voters that they will scarcely even be affected by No Deal - this assumption and naivety is the thing that could possibly lead to civil unrest and riots on British streets when it suddenly dawns on them just how bad things have become.


  • #7310
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    declanflynn wrote: »
    I'm a beef farmer and many of my friends are too, we think we depended on one market for too much of our exports for too long a hard brexit who make us face that problem and sort it forever, so the brits can f off and sink in their own ****

    Hear hear- if the worst comes to the worst we will be ok and will reorient more exports away from Europe’s North Korea. They’ve been too hooked on cheap Irish good quality food anyway, they never want to pay a premium for it.
    In any case, give them a few days of No deal fun they’ll be back begging for a tase deal. First thing on the table will be that backstop. So no point folding now


  • #7311
    Shelga
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,052 ✭✭✭Shelga


    road_high wrote: »
    Hear hear- if the worst comes to the worst we will be ok and will reorient more exports away from Europe’s North Korea. They’ve been too hooked on cheap Irish good quality food anyway, they never want to pay a premium for it.
    In any case, give them a few days of No deal fun they’ll be back begging for a tase deal. First thing on the table will be that backstop. So no point folding now

    Exactly- why would we fold now?- when the UK experiencing the effects of no deal will have them agree to the backstop within weeks, as part of any trade deal. This should be the rebuttal to the question “but aren’t you just making no deal more likely by digging your heels in on the backstop?”

    Brexit Britain just hasn’t accepted reality yet. In order to have any kind of trade deal with the EU, they will have to guarantee no hard border, which means accepting the backstop.


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  • #7312
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,686 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    road_high wrote: »
    Leo has his faults but absolutely delighted with his stance on this and wont let these bullies stamp their way as they’ve always done. Not a hope he’ll be addressing the nation like this!

    Doesn't stop me having FG nightmares.


  • #7313
    reslfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 882 ✭✭✭reslfj


    Walter Bishop wrote: »
    ... and others just want fewer brown people in their area.
    ....

    I am not much for this line of argument, easily gets racist, but:

    Polish and other migrants from Eastern Europe are white, white noting but white.
    They all have a Christian religion or hold more secular beliefs.

    The largest ethnic group of immigrant into the UK has for many years been from India. Their entry has been 100% allowed by UK laws, which are all 100% outside any EU rule or regulation.

    Lars :)


  • #7314
    trashcan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,371 ✭✭✭trashcan


    reslfj wrote: »
    I am not much for this line of argument, easily gets racist, but:

    Polish and other migrants from Eastern Europe are white, white noting but white.
    They all have a Christian religion or hold more secular beliefs.

    The largest ethnic group of immigrant into the UK has for many years been from India. Their entry has been 100% allowed by UK laws, which are all 100% outside any EU rule or regulation.

    Lars :)

    We all know this, I wonder if our friends across the water realise ? If they really expect their country to revert to something akin to midsomer murders territory then I suspect they're in for a nasty shock.


  • #7315
    MrMusician18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,129 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    road_high wrote: »
    Hear hear- if the worst comes to the worst we will be ok and will reorient more exports away from Europe’s North Korea. They’ve been too hooked on cheap Irish good quality food anyway, they never want to pay a premium for it.
    In any case, give them a few days of No deal fun they’ll be back begging for a tase deal. First thing on the table will be that backstop. So no point folding now

    Eh, no we won't. Hard Brexit will be the the thing that puts many non viable suckler farms 6ft under, never mind the final nail in the coffin.


  • #7316
    storker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭storker


    trashcan wrote: »
    If they really expect their country to revert to something akin to midsomer murders territory

    Are you referring to quaint rural life, or body count?


  • #7317
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    trashcan wrote: »
    We all know this, I wonder if our friends across the water realise ? If they really expect their country to revert to something akin to midsomer murders territory then I suspect they're in for a nasty shock.

    One of the more satisfying results of Brexit will hopefully an increase in ex colony Commonwealth nation migration to the UK. That would really be a bit of juicy schadenfreude for me. But we will have to seriously look at the CTA as it’s already far too porous for non EU migrants getting their way in here via the UK.


  • #7318
    declanflynn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,160 ✭✭✭declanflynn


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    road_high wrote: »
    Hear hear- if the worst comes to the worst we will be ok and will reorient more exports away from Europe’s North Korea. They’ve been too hooked on cheap Irish good quality food anyway, they never want to pay a premium for it.
    In any case, give them a few days of No deal fun they’ll be back begging for a tase deal. First thing on the table will be that backstop. So no point folding now

    Eh, no we won't. Hard Brexit will be the the thing that puts many non viable suckler farms 6ft under, never mind the final nail in the coffin.
    Most non viable sucker farmers have an off farm job to support the farm so they would be better off financially and have more free time if sucker farming was 6 feet under


  • #7319
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,870 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    MrMusician18 wrote: »
    Eh, no we won't. Hard Brexit will be the the thing that puts many non viable suckler farms 6ft under, never mind the final nail in the coffin.

    If it’s extremely loss making already then how is brexit going to be much worse? Beef farming has major difficulties with few easy answers to the issues


  • #7320
    hill16bhoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    More bull**** from newsnight trying to make out that Leo is going to crack and quoting timmy Dooley's mad text from a couple of days ago.British media is a joke.
    Some erg guy on now saying the public is turning against the government about the backstop.unicorns and sunny uplands.oh isn't it a pity we don't bow down to our English better like Bruce Arnold,eoin Harris and Dan O'Brien would like us to do

    If ever somebody deserved to have their name made into a portmanteau word to describe them, it's Crispin Blunt


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  • #7321
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    road_high wrote: »
    I think it’s about perception- the UK doesn’t not seem a happy stable place now and the last thing holiday makers want is drama and inconvenience. Doesn’t matter if the currency is good value, people don’t overly think about something like that booking a holiday

    Added to the fact that anyone who booked their holiday in January or February when they had no idea whether the UK would be in or out when Summer came or what kind of mess the place would be in by now as the leave date was March 29 when they booked.

    Then the way the extension to October 31st was structured, people still had no idea if they were going to be gone on May 31, June 30, July 31, August 31, September 30 or October 31 - leave could even happen while they were on their holidays in the UK. Very few were going to sign up for that. Especially EU tourists.


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