Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

20silkcut · 31-07-2019 04:39PM

serfboard wrote: »

The thing is, the above is true to the extent that the British think about Northern Ireland at all. The problem is - they don't. Witness the extent that the foreseeable problem that the border was going to be was discussed before the referendum - not at all, and not even raised by journalists who should have known better. They simply "forgot" about NI during the referendum - and for a long time beforehand.

Reminding me of that great interview of Sammy Wilson conducted by Ali G in Belfast:

Ali G: Is you Irish?
Sammy: No, I'm British.
Ali G: So is you 'ere on 'oliday?

Ever try spending NI sterling notes on the mainland? a lot of places won’t accept it and most say wtf is that?? Very reluctantly might take it.
They’d trust euros ahead of NI sterling.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 04:43PM

Good thread on what we’ve all been saying but now Becoming apparent in the conversation. The only sensible solution available is a NI only backstop

A point well made in this thread that the DUP and unionism in general has and always will kick up a stink and say No! No! No! Ok then. And the comply

Seems to be just a matter of how much their compliance is going to cost the UK. Or was after dinner last night fraught with tension and Johnson’s going to move to dump them and hold an election?

https://twitter.com/marycmurphy/status/1156490784553803776?s=21

robinph · 31-07-2019 04:48PM

20silkcut wrote: »

Ever try spending NI sterling notes on the mainland? a lot of places won’t accept it and most say wtf is that?? Very reluctantly might take it.

Not really anything odd about that. If Cork had their own designs of Euros and had released 10 different versions of the 5Euro note would you expect anyone in Berlin to have any idea what the fake looking notes that you were handing them were?

Take them to a bank and they will accept them fine, alternatively stick them in one of the supermarket automated tills and they accept the full range of the NI and Scottish notes no problem. Just don't expect the average shop assistant to be able to recognise the multitude of different designs from banks they have never even heard of.

A Dub in Glasgo · 31-07-2019 05:02PM

Any one what happened to the David Trimble proposed court case against the backstop?

Seth Brundle · 31-07-2019 05:16PM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Any one what happened to the David Trimble proposed court case against the backstop?

As we reported earlier, having been definitively advised that as things stood our case was not justiciable and could not be until after the signing of a Withdrawal Agreement, we opted for now to go down the political path
Belfast Agreement Defence Group
March 28, 2019

https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/judicial-review-of-irish-backstop/

MrMusician18 · 31-07-2019 05:20PM

Lackadaisical wrote: »

Yup. You have to watch the trend, not the fluctuations. The day-to-day trades and speculation causes a flicker up and down, but the general trend is very definitely downwards and has been for months.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the currency markets aren't all-knowing anymore than anyone else is. They're just reacting to perceptions of risk or where they can make a few coins.

Sterling was probably oversold in the last day or two. The other thing to note is that currency volumes are generally much lower in July and August which gives ride to a volatile price.

Another thing to not is that the past few intraday lows have all occurred in the middle of the UK night, when volumes are even thinner again.

While there is no doubt that Sterling is in the slide, the panic hasn't set in yet. That will be at conference season.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 05:43PM

I wonder will we see anyone with a head of sense realising that if there isn’t a border in place, or maybe even if there is, NI will be a backdoor for illegal immigrants using Ireland to scoot through over to the UK?

Haven’t seen that mentioned in all this.

And wasn’t ‘take back control of our borders!’ One of the rallying cries in this?
It seems to have polarised into ‘were Not putting up any border!’

Pure insanity.

BobbyBobberson · 31-07-2019 05:51PM

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-brexit-side-deals-no-deal_uk_5d41922ee4b0db8affb16033

The latest on UK governments strategy. Unreal. They continue to try and split the EU and are now looking for side deals.

An Claidheamh · 31-07-2019 05:51PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

It's noticeable in the framing of commentary, more in omission than inclusion.

I caught some of the main news on BBC yesterday and there was an update from their "Irish Correspondent" from outside Stormont discussing what Boris Johnson was up to.

In it she talked about the negative impact on a No-Deal Brexit on the Republic of Ireland - Loss of GDP , up to 30k lost jobs etc. but not one single word on the devastating impacts to NI.

To the un-informed , it sounded like all the risks were south of the border.

What they are saying is broadly accurate. It's what they are not saying is the big problem from my viewpoint.

If it's Emma Vardy the "Ireland" correspondent, she's a dim-witted young one who claims to be an expert on "terrorism, the middle East, etc".

A London bus driver could sooner be eligible to be Ireland correspondent than her.

She has zero qualification and has probably never been to the North beforehand or even Ireland.

She tried making a name for herself "bravely" doorstepping Lyra McKee's killers, but is accused of being a unionist.

Apparently her boyfriend is an Orangeman and bigot.

Just shows how much the BBC care about the North, that they won't even hire an actual NI correspondent, instead of some English non-entity as a nixer.

BTW, the BBC are not balanced, never were.

They tow the national line always.

Channel 4 are more likely not to.

Zubeneschamali · 31-07-2019 05:52PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

I wonder will we see anyone with a head of sense realising that if there isn’t a border in place, or maybe even if there is, NI will be a backdoor for illegal immigrants using Ireland to scoot through over to the UK?

They never had any plans to police the border for immigrants because of the CTA. They plan to make UK landlords and employers into unofficial immigration officials with a duty to check papieren bitte.

RobertKK · 31-07-2019 05:54PM

https://twitter.com/TeleComment/status/1156535626172436482?s=20

It has gotten to very condescending levels towards Ireland in the Telegraph lately.
Why are people pushing for a no deal Brexit if it is so bad. Maybe that should be the question, there would be no need to look for the wrong people to blame if it was all going to be so good.

Frank Bullitt · 31-07-2019 05:56PM

RobertKK wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TeleComment/status/1156535626172436482?s=20

It has gotten to very condescending levels towards Ireland in the Telegraph lately.
Why are people pushing for a no deal Brexit if it is so bad. Maybe that should be the question, there would be no need to look for the wrong people to blame if it was all going to be so good.

I clicked that tweet to see the comments...I regret my decision.

Zubeneschamali · 31-07-2019 05:59PM

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/boris-johnson-brexit-side-deals-no-deal_uk_5d41922ee4b0db8affb16033

Laughable reporting from someone inside the Brexit bubble:
But negotiations are locked in stalemate, with Johnson refusing to sit down with EU leaders unless they agree to reopen the withdrawal agreement, an idea which Brussels has rejected.

Negotiations are not locked in stalemate, negotiations are over. The extension he is currently wasting with all this bluffery explicitly rules out renegotiating the WA.

BobbyBobberson · 31-07-2019 06:02PM

I swear there is a decade of books to be written about the mentality of Brexiteers. The cult like thinking of a group of people who have gone swivel eyed.

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1156587804849254401

31-07-2019 06:09PM

It's like the crisis of the third century on a short time frame. Remarkable to watch when a few years ago, I'd have considered Europe to be politically grand.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 06:12PM

Farage on LBC now the topic is a reunited Ireland.

Popcorn. There isn’t enough.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 06:19PM

Farage now asking should Johnson offer a border poll in order to deliver brexit.

There’s that seed planted in all his minions little minds. I expect to see this clamour to become a roar now.

One NI journalist on saying moderate unionists are now talking about it as they want to stay in the EU

Some associate of Trimble saying it would mean the extinction of unionists in NI.

Joe_ Public · 31-07-2019 06:37PM

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

I swear there is a decade of books to be written about the mentality of Brexiteers. The cult like thinking of a group of people who have gone swivel eyed.

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1156587804849254401

Christopher Hope📝
✔
@christopherhope
A friend sends me a text asking: “Why does the BBC say the ‘risk’ of no deal instead of the ‘opportunity’ of no deal?”
Anyone got an answer for him?#Brexit

858
4:29 PM - Jul 31, 2019

Yes, I have an answer. People tend very much to use opportunity to describe a situation where somebody is taking a risk but one with a very definite reward in mind - for example, giving up your job and home to emigrate to the other side of the world for a better job and more promotion prospects. That's the opportunity of emigration, you might say. If, on the other hand, you give up your home and job to emigrate to the other side of the world with no specific job opportunity, that might more accurately be described as the risk of emigration. A no deal brexit clearly belongs to the second category imho.

MrMusician18 · 31-07-2019 06:37PM

Gintonious wrote: »

I clicked that tweet to see the comments...I regret my decision.

One of the comments has a pastebin of the article if you don't want to reward the Telegraph with a click for this nonsense

Kermit.de.frog · 31-07-2019 06:37PM

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/leo-varadkar-media-telegraph-sun-irish-taoiseach-brexit

Good article in guardian on media campaign against Ireland.

100% this orchestrated and very obvious last few days.

Sam Russell · 31-07-2019 06:39PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Farage now asking should Johnson offer a border poll in order to deliver brexit.

There’s that seed planted in all his minions little minds. I expect to see this clamour to become a roar now.

One NI journalist on saying moderate unionists are now talking about it as they want to stay in the EU

Some associate of Trimble saying it would mean the extinction of unionists in NI.

If only.

If only that included all bigots in NI.

31-07-2019 06:40PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Farage now asking should Johnson offer a border poll in order to deliver brexit.

There’s that seed planted in all his minions little minds. I expect to see this clamour to become a roar now.

One NI journalist on saying moderate unionists are now talking about it as they want to stay in the EU

Some associate of Trimble saying it would mean the extinction of unionists in NI.

By off-loading NI and then being able to deliver a Brexit deal, that's a win win for Boris.

Sam Russell · 31-07-2019 06:41PM

Deleted User wrote: »

By off-loading NI and then being able to deliver a Brexit deal, that's a win win for Boris.

And a win win for NI.

isohon · 31-07-2019 06:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

By off-loading NI and then being able to deliver a Brexit deal, that's a win win for Boris.

He won't be off-loading it for free. There are decades of reparations to pay.

31-07-2019 06:44PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

And a win win for NI.

I would suspect that NI could be in for a lot of strife if GB off-loads them!
A huge number of UK civil servant jobs for starters that a UI could never replace, assuming that NI actually votes to unify.

31-07-2019 06:44PM

isohon wrote: »

He won't be off-loading it for free. There are decades of reparations to pay.

Off-loading the costs of running NI would be a big win for GB.
As well as trying to manage a province where a large percentage of the population hate their opposite numbers that they simply won't co-operate on anything, they can't even form a government.

isohon · 31-07-2019 06:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Off-loading the costs of running NI would be a big win for GB.

Undoubtedly, but under no circumstances should (and I guess) would it be acceptable to either the Irish Government, or the other co-guarantors of the GFA.

Sam Russell · 31-07-2019 06:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I would suspect that NI could be in for a lot of strife if GB off-loads them!
A huge number of UK civil servant jobs for starters that a UI could never replace, assuming that NI actually votes to unify.

It would always depend on the settlement terms. Clearly, initially NI would continue as is, except that Dublin would replace Westminster. Funding would have to come from somewhere.

However, this is for discussion elsewhere.

Ben Done · 31-07-2019 06:52PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/31/leo-varadkar-media-telegraph-sun-irish-taoiseach-brexit

Good article in guardian on media campaign against Ireland.

100% this orchestrated and very obvious last few days.

Roy Greenslade providing a rather cooler analysis of the Tory press than the sweary rant I just went on to a pal.

Seriously, that Bruce Arnold Telegraph piece has me wound up - he should be denied service in any shop or bar he sets foot in in this country.

Stop moaning ffs · 31-07-2019 06:55PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Off-loading the costs of running NI would be a big win for GB.
As well as trying to manage a province where a large percentage of the population hate their opposite numbers that they simply won't co-operate on anything, they can't even form a government.

Just tonight on this Farage show you’re hearing the conversation shift into how much NI costs and let them go their own way with Ireland.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

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