Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

VinLieger · 25-07-2019 09:04PM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

“Kuennsberg as Political Editor of the BBC has certainly been a failure. She doesnt offer much in the way of any real analysis and rarely if ever challenges authority or speaks truth to power. Instead she prefers to just blandly regurgitate what she is spoonfed by dodgy PR men and report about 'sightings' of various figures.”

1000 times true

Her obsession with idle gossip about political figures has been embarrassing to watch and also does a dire disservice to the UK at this time.

Where was this from? Its bang on the money about her!

Beechwoodspark · 25-07-2019 09:06PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Where was this from? Its bang on the money about her!

It’s a post from earlier on this thread

fash · 25-07-2019 09:22PM

Enzokk wrote: »

This is a very interesting thread on the WA and what was achieved with the backstop and why the EU is baffled why the UK is so against it. I am only going to link the first tweet in the thread, it is interesting and shows that if Johnson gets rid of Olly Robbins it would be a massive mistake.

https://twitter.com/nick_gutteridge/status/1154450105933545473?s=20

Said it before. It was Teresa May's awful salesmanship that made an amazing UK victory into an apparent terrible deal.

cml387 · 25-07-2019 09:22PM

First Up wrote: »

An extension may be allowed if all 27 member states agree there is good reason for one. But they are not "duty bound" and the good reason needs to apply to the EU, not just to accomodate the UK's internal convolutions.

Yes but do you really think the EU would force an exit on October 31 with a general election called in the UK? It would play straight into the hands of the Brextremists. Like all of us they would maintain the hope that it might turn out to the EU's advantage.

Joe_ Public · 25-07-2019 09:26PM

Foghladh wrote: »

I think that they probably will. However the BBC reported the judge in the appeal as saying that "He said Mr Grimes had tried to meet his obligations to the commission in filling out the forms, and that his actions were not dishonest or lacking transparency"

Must go and see if i can find that judges' summary, looks like it would make for interesting reading.

Joe_ Public · 25-07-2019 09:34PM

Have to admit on the basis of reading Tim Shipmans books and on Benedict Cumberbatchs portrait, i deemed Dominic Cummings to be a somewhat brilliant but clearly unhinged individual. Reading a bit more today, i feel i am discovering a much more balanced and nuanced individual. This bit in particular caught my eye:

https://www.economist.com/bagehots-notebook/2016/01/21/an-interview-with-dominic-cummings

BAGEHOT: In the event of an Out vote do you think the government would seek to hold another referendum, on the terms of Brexit?

DOMINIC CUMMINGS: I think that is a distinct possibility, yes. It’s obviously not something that we can force. We’re a campaign group. But I think it is perfectly possible that leadership candidates to replace David Cameron will say that they think there are good grounds for a new government team to offer the public a voice on what the deal looks like. And we obviously wouldn’t oppose that, if that’s what senior politicians want to offer. I think there’s a strong democratic case for it. There’s also the issue of the profound loss of trust that the establishment has suffered over the past 20-30 years. All parties have told lies about this subject, whether it’s John Major and David Cameron or Gordon Brown, Tony Blair and Nick Clegg. People have repeatedly promised referendums then not held referendums. So given that, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if leadership candidates to replace Cameron said: we need a mechanism so people can have confidence in what we say.

Stop moaning ffs · 25-07-2019 09:36PM

cml387 wrote: »

Yes but do you really think the EU would force an exit on October 31 with a general election called in the UK? It would play straight into the hands of the Brextremists. Like all of us they would maintain the hope that it might turn out to the EU's advantage.

Wondered about this earlier.

Boris is saying leave 31st but clearly he’s geared up for election.

So is the request for extension happening before that date owing to election?

Or is it out in the 31st and election after?

First Up · 25-07-2019 10:07PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote:

Or is it out in the 31st and election after?

Even if its election first, you think Boris could ask for an extension, having based his entire run to #10 on leaving on Oct 31?

BonnieSituation · 25-07-2019 10:17PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

EU off as well...

And?

Are the EU careering off a cliff on a unicorn after wasting the last 3 years fighting amongst themselves over some cake?

ancapailldorcha · 25-07-2019 10:22PM

Interesting. There already seems to be a schism in the Brexiter wing of the party with Steve Baker apparently having turned down a ministerial role.

https://twitter.com/SteveBakerHW/status/1154465833113927680

Baker cites powerlessness but the cynic in me reckons he is distancing himself from the inevitable disaster of a no deal Brexit.

trellheim · 25-07-2019 10:37PM

I had to go off and read the UK fixed term parliament act. Under it exempt a Vote of no confidence only a 2/3 majority of all MPs so you need 429 . Labour are not thick but its bullying weapon Boris cant go to the country by himself

So the big assumption is that Labour would vote for a GE before Brexit date and it is just about possible

this is playing with the nation stuff and very ugly

of course if you had the GE after 31 october Labour would win as the tories would have fked the country (scorched earth stuff though)

nc6000 · 25-07-2019 10:44PM

Mark Francois just said on Newsnight that even with the backstop removed the ERG will not vote for the WA.

Jamie2k9 · 25-07-2019 10:45PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And?

Are the EU careering off a cliff on a unicorn after wasting the last 3 years fighting amongst themselves over some cake?

The point is neither side are really on holidays and there will be contact made.

Jamie2k9 · 25-07-2019 10:49PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Wondered about this earlier.

Boris is saying leave 31st but clearly he’s geared up for election.

So is the request for extension happening before that date owing to election?

Or is it out in the 31st and election after?

He will most likely be forced by MPs to stop a no deal and will then be forced to change current legalisation departure date. This will gear him up for a bitter election campaign because he will say he had no choice but to extend and immediately call an election and it will be a case give me a majority and we will leave most likely 31 March 2020 and if no prob a second ref which I think might deliver the same result.

Mr.Nice Guy · 25-07-2019 10:52PM

nc6000 wrote: »

Mark Francois just said on Newsnight that even with the backstop removed the ERG will not vote for the WA.

His smugness is off the charts. Actually used the phrase "Herr Juncker in the bunker". These people are not well.

Not a fan of Kirsty Wark who just let him ramble on and barely challenged him. Emily Maitlis a far better host.

Strazdas · 25-07-2019 10:55PM

nc6000 wrote: »

Mark Francois just said on Newsnight that even with the backstop removed the ERG will not vote for the WA.

This point is being completely overlooked by the likes of Dan O'Brien and Eoghan Harris. Even if the Irish Govt. conceded on the backstop, it probably wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the ERG,

BonnieSituation · 25-07-2019 10:57PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

The point is neither side are really on holidays and there will be contact made.

Your point was well disguised so it came across as a pointed jab at the EU.

Strazdas · 25-07-2019 10:58PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His smugness is off the charts. Actually used the phrase "Herr Juncker in the bunker". These people are not well.

Not a fan of Kirsty Wark who just let him ramble on and barely challenged him. Emily Maitlis a far better host.

Juncker is not even German! :eek:

Shelga · 25-07-2019 10:58PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His smugness is off the charts. Actually used the phrase "Herr Juncker in the bunker". These people are not well.

Not a fan of Kirsty Wark who just let him ramble on and barely challenged him. Emily Maitlis a far better host.

Totally agree, he is absolutely unbearable. The fact that any sane person sees red when they see him was clearly enough editorial justification to have him on, there is no other reason.

The way he constantly barks “hang on” to any presenter trying to question him is unbelievably rude and arrogant. Agree Emily Maitlis would have done a better job- he probably only agreed to come on knowing it was her night off.

What the hell was he talking about- the EU offered the UK a free trade deal 18 months ago? Is this to do with when the idea was an NI-only backstop? There has never been any offer of a free trade deal without first passing the WA, has there? He’s making me question my sanity, the stuff he comes out with is just so ludicrous.

listermint · 25-07-2019 11:01PM

Strazdas wrote: »

This point is being completely overlooked by the likes of Dan O'Brien and Eoghan Harris. Even if the Irish Govt. conceded on the backstop, it probably wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the ERG,

Why would they want a deal.

Sure how could their disaster capitalist bets come in then.

Only the naive think brexit is about anything other than making a slim sect of people very very very wealthy.

Valhallapt · 25-07-2019 11:10PM

Strazdas wrote: »

This point is being completely overlooked by the likes of Dan O'Brien and Eoghan Harris. Even if the Irish Govt. conceded on the backstop, it probably wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the ERG,

Yea I used to enjoy reading Dan OBrien, but I just can see how he arrives at his point of view.

Sparko · 25-07-2019 11:13PM

nc6000 wrote: »

Mark Francois just said on Newsnight that even with the backstop removed the ERG will not vote for the WA.

Goes to show that any compromise over the last few years on the backstop wouldn't have solved anything and that the hardliners would have just found something else to protest against.

Mr.Nice Guy · 25-07-2019 11:14PM

Shelga wrote: »

What the hell was he talking about- the EU offered the UK a free trade deal 18 months ago? Is this to do with when the idea was an NI-only backstop? There has never been any offer of a free trade deal without first passing the WA, has there? He’s making me question my sanity, the stuff he comes out with is just so ludicrous.

Yeah he seemed to be referring to Tusk's suggestions of a Canada-style offer. He left out the fact that this idea involved NI remaining aligned with the EU.

newport2 · 25-07-2019 11:15PM

Strazdas wrote: »

This point is being completely overlooked by the likes of Dan O'Brien and Eoghan Harris. Even if the Irish Govt. conceded on the backstop, it probably wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the ERG,

I don't think the ERG ever cared about the backstop. It was used as an excuse to oppose everything and avoid admitting earlier that all they wanted was no deal. If a GE happens and with a majority in the commons, I think they will happily throw the DUP under the bus and leave the backstop in NI in place.

Kermit.de.frog · 25-07-2019 11:16PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

His smugness is off the charts. Actually used the phrase "Herr Juncker in the bunker". These people are not well.

Not a fan of Kirsty Wark who just let him ramble on and barely challenged him. Emily Maitlis a far better host.

For anyone who can bare it...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1154510268379959296

This is the standard of politician in the UK now. Don't mention the war.

BonnieSituation · 25-07-2019 11:20PM

Sparko wrote: »

Goes to show that any compromise over the last few years on the backstop wouldn't have solved anything and that the hardliners would have just found something else to protest against.

And yet people will come on here and insist we need to compromise.

I want someone just once to ask them what exactly is wrong with the backstop and do they know what it's for!

It never happens!

BonnieSituation · 25-07-2019 11:22PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

For anyone who can bare it...

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1154510268379959296

This is the standard of politician in the UK now. Don't mention the war.

He really is the pits.

Tell me how · 25-07-2019 11:22PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

For anyone who can bare it...

This is the standard of politician in the UK now. Don't mention the war.

I know his constituency is a safe Conservative seat but to think that this character can be elected to Westminster 5 times in a row is just mind boggling.

InTheShadows · 25-07-2019 11:27PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I know his constituency is a safe Conservative seat but to think that this character can be elected to West Minister 5 times in a row is just mind boggling.

Look at some of the idiots we have elected here. People in glasshouses etc...

Infini · 25-07-2019 11:27PM

gooch2k9 wrote: »

Europeans have their position nailed down.

An extension was granted so that the UK could decide on what they actually want, and come up with workable solutions to issues with the current/proposed agreement. They haven't done any of that.

Only one side deserves a break.

I think at this point considering the shenanigans in in the United Memedom at this stage that the EU side should be ready to allow them to crash out by their own choice come Oct 31. Noone really want's this except the deluded fools who are currently running the UK government right now but ultimately thing's cannot be allowed to go on forever simply because the conservatives who have enabled all this at some point will have to own the consequences of a problem they created through their own vainglory.

Personally the way thing's look the whole Brexit fiasco will only end either if there's a snap election that ultimately heaves the Conservatives out of goverment entirely and results in sane and realistic people getting in that stops this or there ultimately is a No Deal Brexit caused by Boris biting off more than he can chew and ultimately there is no UK a few years down the line as it breaks apart.

We dont want this happening of course but honestly it might be better to try and Tough it out because ultimately for all their Bravado over there we can ultimately survive this and adapt, they'll fall apart because every one of them in that Conservative party over there is out for themselves and has no plan at all except as we've all seen Rainbows and Unicorns aka Fantasy Land ideas.

Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Comments