Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

FrancieBrady · 22-07-2019 04:10PM

blinding wrote: »

Why don’t they want a General Election first ? Especially Re-mainer Tory / Labour MPs . Especially those MPs that fraudulently stole their seats by signing up to their parties Manifestos while doing the direct opposite after stealing their seats .

Because a GE could very easily leave them in the same bind. It's not rocket science.

A referendum settles it once and for all because it would be a clear question.

blinding · 22-07-2019 04:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Because a GE could very easily leave them in the same bind. It's not rocket science.

A referendum settles it once and for all because it would be a clear question.

What if it ended 50 ;50 or even another 52% for Brexit again . Why would that 52% be better than the last 52% .

We already have had double democracy for Brexit ; Referendum and General Election .

Surely those that want another referendum can have double democracy for another referendum i.e. General election followed by a Vote in that New Parliament whether or not to have another referendum .

Surely they are not afraid of that Democracy .

FrancieBrady · 22-07-2019 04:25PM

blinding wrote: »

What if it ended 50 ;50 or even another 52% for Brexit again . Why would that 52% be better than the last 52%

Because people would be better informed? If they knew that parliament was so divided, do you think that would affect votes? Either way?

We already have had double democracy for Brexit ; Referendum and General Election .

Surely those that want another referendum can have double democracy for another referendum i.e. General election followed by a Vote in that New Parliament whether or not to have another referendum .

Surely they are not afraid of that Democracy .

You cannot dictate the need for a GE and rubbish a second referendum and expect to be taken seriously.

blinding · 22-07-2019 04:29PM

If a government cannot get its policies enacted then there is a General Election . This is the way it has been and should be . Do Eu-Philes think they can cancel democracy altogether ?

We see the out reachings of that in Hong Kong now .

First Up · 22-07-2019 04:40PM

blinding wrote:

If a government cannot get its policies enacted then there is a General Election . This is the way it has been and should be . Do Eu-Philes think they can cancel democracy altogether ?

You ignored my question earlier about the distinction between direct and representative democracy. Was it too hard? Someone who goes on about democracy as much as you do should be familiar enough with the subject to engage on it.

InTheShadows · 22-07-2019 06:00PM

Did the Brexiters tell fibs during the campaign, yes of course they did. Politicians lie all the time it's what they do to get into power. It doesn't mean democracy shouldn't be enforced.

Our very own PM for instance told us "not one red cent towards the banks" during the 2011 election campaign only to do a complete turnabout once they got into power. Should that election have been rerun because of those lies? I seem to remember Pat Rabitte admitting on live TV that he lied to the electorate that campaign also, they all do it.

Guy:Incognito · 22-07-2019 07:44PM

InTheShadows wrote: »

Did the Brexiters tell fibs during the campaign, yes of course they did. Politicians lie all the time it's what they do to get into power. It doesn't mean democracy shouldn't be enforced.

Our very own PM for instance told us "not one red cent towards the banks" during the 2011 election campaign only to do a complete turnabout once they got into power. Should that election have been rerun because of those lies? I seem to remember Pat Rabitte admitting on live TV that he lied to the electorate that campaign also, they all do it.

Its really not the same. A referendum is a single issue. Not a general "if I get in to power I'll do x" and then the reality of being in power and what you can and cant do sets in.

A referendum is a straight choice of wanting something or not. Lying and breaking laws to affect the outcome is a different ball game.

Do the uk have an independent referendum commission that distributes the facts to households like we have?

Breaking the law is a different issue issue to telling lies.you cant really stop people saying x or y will happen when an outcome is unknown or uncertain but laws are not there to be broken.

Blinding, what's your opinion on your mate nigels stance all the way up to the referendum when he thought leave wouldnt win that that wouldnt be the end of it and that he would continue pushing for brexit? How is that respecting democracy?

Guy:Incognito · 22-07-2019 07:45PM

First Up wrote: »

You ignored my question earlier about the distinction between direct and representative democracy. Was it too hard? Someone who goes on about democracy as much as you do should be familiar enough with the subject to engage on it.

He ignores all the questions that dont suit. Theres a list of them all through the thread that got ignored or he waffles about something else till it got buried.

blinding · 23-07-2019 01:35AM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Blinding, what's your opinion on your mate nigels stance all the way up to the referendum when he thought leave wouldnt win that that wouldnt be the end of it and that he would continue pushing for brexit? How is that respecting democracy?

Nigel though very good does not quite reach my standards .

I notice the SNP haven’t exactly accepted the Result of their once in a Generation Independence Referendum .

Re-Mainers have not exactly accepted they lost the Referendum and the following General Election Re Brexit .

If only all Humans loved Democracy and the Freedom that comes with it like I do .

KildareP · 23-07-2019 06:07AM

blinding wrote: »

Nigel though very good does not quite reach my standards .

I notice the SNP haven’t exactly accepted the Result of their once in a Generation Independence Referendum .

Re-Mainers have not exactly accepted they lost the Referendum and the following General Election Re Brexit .

If only all Humans loved Democracy and the Freedom that comes with it like I do .

The circumstances of the SNP referendum have changed completely.
The campaign to remain was on the basis it would guarantee they be tied to the EU.
Now they are going to be dragged out of it despite indicating they wished to remain.

Democratic is it?

What is your opinion on the statement "If a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy"?

What does it say about UK vs EU democracy whereby the UK could invoke Article 50 of its own free will and can equally revoke of its own free will within the timeframe?
Whereas Scotland must seek the permission of Westminster just to hold a referendum and any outcome to leave requires the full co-operation and approval of Westminster?

Is that democratic?

ambro25 · 23-07-2019 07:29AM

blinding wrote: »

(...)

I notice the SNP haven’t exactly accepted the Result of their once in a Generation Independence Referendum .

Re-Mainers have not exactly accepted they lost the Referendum and the following General Election Re Brexit .

If only all Humans loved Democracy and the Freedom that comes with it like I do .

Irony-meter bust again. Must be my 57th since February 2016.

Invoice is in the post, blinding.

Looking forward to your take on Hunt's begging in Brussels for a temporary EU navy, to help the UK out of its self-made Iranian bind. With zero shame or contrition, naturally.

blinding · 23-07-2019 08:13AM

KildareP wrote: »

The circumstances of the SNP referendum have changed completely.
The campaign to remain was on the basis it would guarantee they be tied to the EU.
Now they are going to be dragged out of it despite indicating they wished to remain.

Democratic is it?

What is your opinion on the statement "If a democracy cannot change its mind it ceases to be a democracy"?

What does it say about UK vs EU democracy whereby the UK could invoke Article 50 of its own free will and can equally revoke of its own free will within the timeframe?
Whereas Scotland must seek the permission of Westminster just to hold a referendum and any outcome to leave requires the full co-operation and approval of Westminster?

Is that democratic?

Is there actually much demand for another Independence Referendum in Scotland . Didn’t One Third of SNP Voters Vote for Brexit and wasn’t there 1 million Votes for Brexit in Scotland . If the SNP were showing figures that there was real demand for another referendum then Westminster would have to agree to have one . They SNP lost 20 Westminster seats at the last General Election .

blinding · 23-07-2019 08:18AM

ambro25 wrote: »

Irony-meter bust again. Must be my 57th since February 2016.

Invoice is in the post, blinding.

Looking forward to your take on Hunt's begging in Brussels for a temporary EU navy, to help the UK out of its self-made Iranian bind. With zero shame or contrition, naturally.

Hunt was another Re-Mainer . Theresa May in trousers . Surrendering to the Eu has got her out of Downing Street and that is why Hunt is not going in to Number 10 .

Jaysus , it looks more and more like Britain needs Nigel Farage in Number 10 .

Himself and Donald Trump would be the Dream Team .

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 08:26AM

blinding wrote: »

Jaysus , it looks more and more like Britain needs Nigel Farage in Number 10 .

Bar a coup that isn't going to happen, the man can't get himself elected as an MP never mind take number 10. (8 times is it, he has tried and failed?)

Maybe he could break in?

blinding · 23-07-2019 08:30AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bar a coup that isn't going to happen, the man can't get himself elected as an MP never mind take number 10. (8 times is it, he has tried and failed?)

Maybe he could break in?

He just needs to transfer his European / Referendum success Westminster .

He got some Vote for a few weeks old party in the Eu Election . The Tory party now realise its complete Brexit or bye bye Tory Party .

Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 08:33AM

blinding wrote: »

He just needs to transfer his European / Referendum success Westminster .

He got some Vote for a few weeks old party in the Eu Election . The Tory party now realise its complete Brexit or bye bye Tory Party .

Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

Which doesn't for a second explain his failure to be elected an MP.

Which also says he will never be in No. 10. Which must be of tremendous relief to the British electorate in their time of crisis.

Peregrinus · 23-07-2019 08:40AM

blinding wrote: »

He just needs to transfer his European / Referendum success Westminster .

He has "just needed" that since he first entered electoral politics 20 years ago. In all that time he has never, ever succeeded in transferring his performance in European elections across to Westminster elections.

blinding wrote: »

He got some Vote for a few weeks old party in the Eu Election . The Tory party now realise its complete Brexit or bye bye Tory Party.

On the other hand, they also realise that, if it's no-deal Brexit, it's also bye by Tory Party.

Dear me. What a conundrum. How very sad.

blinding wrote: »

Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

In fairness, the Brits have always produced great comedy.

blinding · 23-07-2019 08:45AM

The Brexit Party got 31.6% in the Eu elections . A party that was only a few weeks old .

11.3% more than it nearest competitor .

If Brexit is not done by the Tory Party then there is every chance Nigel Farage will be in Number 10 .

Nigel and Trump are great Buddies . The Dream Team .

ambro25 · 23-07-2019 08:48AM

blinding wrote: »

He just needs to transfer his European / Referendum success Westminster .

He got some Vote for a few weeks old party in the Eu Election . The Tory party now realise its complete Brexit or bye bye Tory Party .

Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

Recent by-election results the length and breadth of the UK show that this EU>UK vote transfer simply not happening for BXP.

BXP is getting some of the UKIP, Tory and Labour vote, enough to look semi-competitive against Labour and the Tories...but the LibDems are kicking all asses and taking all names, consistently. You're talking multiples of double-digit precentages grabbed from the Lab/Con duopoly.

Looking very much forward to the Jo Simpson effect getting into a fuller swing, particularly now that Labour under Corbyn is resorting to Tory-like playing the man rather than the ball. Must be going down a treat with the non-Corbynista membership.

Farage...is a very good salesman. But no statesman. Never has been. Karma will catch him up someday, once Trump is out of the White House.

Wanderer78 · 23-07-2019 08:48AM

blinding wrote: »

He just needs to transfer his European / Referendum success Westminster .

He got some Vote for a few weeks old party in the Eu Election . The Tory party now realise its complete Brexit or bye bye Tory Party .

Nigel Farage is the Greatest Freedom Fighter the World has ever seen and not a shot fired . The Brits are indeed blessed to have him .

fcuking hell!:rolleyes:

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 08:50AM

blinding wrote: »

The Brexit Party got 31.6% in the Eu elections . A party that was only a few weeks old .

11.3% more than it nearest competitor .

If Brexit is not done by the Tory Party then there is every chance Nigel Farage will be in Number 10 .

Nigel and Trump are great Buddies . The Dream Team .

Gonna, shoulda, mighthave...

What are Nigel and Trump gonna do? Trump is an isolationist who cares only about America. The UK have an over exalted idea of how important they are generally in the scheme of things and of how important they are to America.

They'll get a taste of that in the trade deal they will get shafted in and the corporate zombies are gorging on the NHS entrails.

blinding · 23-07-2019 08:56AM

The Brexit party got 11.3% more than any other party in the Eu Elections and 29 seats , 13 more than the Lib Dems . A National Election for the Eu .

Brexit or No Tory Party . Possibly Corbyn in number 10

Nigel Farage will be feted through out future time as the Greatest Freedom Fighter of all time .

If only Ireland had a Nigel Farage in its history perhaps we would have achieved more than partial Independence and surely we would not have sold that Independence to the Eu .

Wanderer78 · 23-07-2019 08:59AM

blinding wrote: »

The Brexit party got 11.3% more than any other party in the Eu Elections and 29 seats , 13 more than the Lib Dems . A National Election for the Eu .

Brexit or No Tory Party . Possibly Corbyn in number 10

Nigel Farage will be feted through out future time as the Greatest Freedom Fighter of all time .

If only Ireland had a Nigel Farage in its history perhaps we would have achieved more than partial Independence and surely we would not have sold that Independence to the Eu .

farage, trump and johnson are some of the biggest political scumbags ever to have existed

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 09:01AM

blinding wrote: »

The Brexit party got 11.3% more than any other party in the Eu Elections and 29 seats , 13 more than the Lib Dems . A National Election for the Eu .

Brexit or No Tory Party . Possibly Corbyn in number 10

Nigel Farage will be feted through out future time as the Greatest Freedom Fighter of all time .

If only Ireland had a Nigel Farage in its history perhaps we would have achieved more than partial Independence and surely we would not have sold that Independence to the Eu .

Yeh...maybe we could have gotten the place full of American corporations and have a unique access to the murricans. So sad that we failed to do that!

Sulking on your own outside a beneficial union while your people are blasted back 50 years in their development is a 'prison'...it isn't freedom. The UK are finding this out already as the nirvanish trade deals are not showing any signs of emerging or being 'the easiest of all time'.

blinding · 23-07-2019 09:01AM

Brexit has got rid of Cameron , Osbourne , May and many other useless Politicians .

And yet some people say Brexit is bad . It sure is good at getting rid of useless Politicians .

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 09:04AM

blinding wrote: »

Brexit has got rid of Cameron , Osbourne , May and many other useless Politicians .

And yet some people say Brexit is bad . It sure is good at getting rid of useless Politicians .

Boris might not even have enough of a majority to form a government. In your lifetime there has never been that doubt about a British PM.

Nobody, including yourself can plot a course for him that doesn't end up with him failing somebody massively.

blinding · 23-07-2019 09:09AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Boris might not even have enough of a majority to form a government. In your lifetime there has never been that doubt about a British PM.

Nobody, including yourself can plot a course for him that doesn't end up with him failing somebody massively.

Obviously he should call a General Election as soon as practically Possible .

The Electorate needs to give its Verdict on this Parliament of MPs .

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 09:11AM

blinding wrote: »

Obviously he should call a General Election as soon as practically Possible .

The Electorate needs to give its Verdict on this Parliament of MPs .

So you keep dictating to the great democracy. :rolleyes:

blinding · 23-07-2019 09:16AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So you keep dictating to the great democracy. :rolleyes:

What have you got against the Democracy of a General Election ?

I agree that if any party puts having another Brexit Referendum in their Manifesto and wins then there should be another Brexit Referendum .

There surely will be another General Election soon . All the dynamics are heading that way .

FrancieBrady · 23-07-2019 09:23AM

blinding wrote: »

What have you got against the Democracy of a General Election ?

I agree that if any party puts having another Brexit Referendum in their Manifesto and wins then there should be another Brexit Referendum .

There surely will be another General Election soon . All the dynamics are heading that way .

I have nothing against a plebiscite of the people.
What I am against is a party trying to hide from the people and calling an election only when they have the best chance of winning it, and don't have front and centre the wishes of the people.

On this issue therefore a referendum comes first, because there isn't a single person on the planet who knows what the UK people want.

Will Britain ever just piss off and get on with Brexit? -mod warning in OP (21/12)

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