Irishman set to be deported from the US

lainey_d_123 · 18-07-2019 09:18AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

By deporting him you also punish his wife, children, and stepchild. His wife will be forced to choose between separating his children from their father by staying in the US, or separating her other child from their father by moving to Ireland—not to mention the loss of their wider family network, jobs, etc. What good is achieved by strictly enforcing this law, when it causes so much harm to other blameless parties?

Well, that's nobody's fault but his. He should have thought of all this beforehand instead of thinking that laws are for other people, not for special people like him. Sounds like an utter narcissist.

NIMAN · 18-07-2019 09:36AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Plenty of people

Plenty do, but their caring will not alter the case one iota.

Plus they only care cos he is the current news story, they will soon forget about him once another news story comes along.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 09:42AM

NIMAN wrote: »

Plenty do, but their caring will not alter the case one iota.

Plus they only care cos he is the current news story, they will soon forget about him once another news story comes along.

Yeah somebody already made that same point and I already responded to it.

whisky_galore · 18-07-2019 09:46AM

NIMAN wrote: »

I doubt the authorities in the US will care much.

They don't do the 'ah shur God luv him' thing that we do.

20/30 + convictions offender in front of the courts again, ah shur he had a tough upbringing give him a chance. Works here, doesn't work so well over there.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 09:47AM

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Well, that's nobody's fault but his. He should have thought of all this beforehand instead of thinking that laws are for other people, not for special people like him. Sounds like an utter narcissist.

?

Loads of people do pretty much the same as him and get regularized. Loads of people spend their whole life living and working in the US “illegally,” while otherwise paying taxes, and all the rest of it. It would actually hurt the US economy to throw them all out. This is a counterproductive exercise.

whisky_galore · 18-07-2019 09:48AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Plenty of people

Thoughts and prayers.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 09:49AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

They don't do the 'ah shur God luv him' thing that we do.

Yeah, like how we send asylum seekers off to direct provision for years on end in a widely-condemned system. Ireland is such a soft touch...

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 09:51AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

Thoughts and prayers.

So three responses to that all saying essentially same thing. You can read the other responses before hitting Reply.

whisky_galore · 18-07-2019 09:53AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Yeah, like how we send asylum seekers off to direct provision for years on end in a widely-condemned system. Ireland is such a soft touch...

They don't matter because they aren't Irish. You've been here long enough now to realise that.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 09:55AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

They don't matter because they aren't Irish. You've been here long enough now to realise that.

Well people keep contrasting the US attitude to migrants with the Irish one, as if Ireland has some laidback attitude to non-EU migrants, unlike the tough minded US. It doesn’t.

We even had a referendum to change our citizenship rules to make them tighter than the US.

weldoninhio · 18-07-2019 09:57AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Yeah, like how we send asylum seekers off to direct provision for years on end in a widely-condemned system. Ireland is such a soft touch...

The poor craturs with their free accommodation, food and education. :rolleyes:

The only people in DP for years are the failed ones, who we pay the legal system handsomely for appeal after appeal.

whisky_galore · 18-07-2019 10:01AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Well people keep contrasting the US attitude to migrants with the Irish one, as if Ireland has some laidback attitude to non-EU migrants, unlike the tough minded US. It doesn’t.

They're not white in many cases, they don't have a doting Irish mammy at home wringing her hands, de poor wifey and de childer. Will someone think of de childer? Ticks all the boxes for the Irish media.

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 10:06AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

They're not white in many cases, they don't have a doting Irish mammy at home wringing her hands, de poor wifey and de childer. Will someone think of de childer? Ticks all the boxes for the Irish media.

I haven’t heard anything about this guy’s mother, have you? And his wife and her children appear to be people of colour.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 10:13AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Ah yes hyperbole much we are talking about breaking immigration law and the consequences of that. If we could actually talk about it like mature adults without resorting to the usual collective guilt type mentality because we have Irish people going abroad we could get more out of these discussions.

I think he should be deported as they are doing and banned for 5 years as per the law, how he works out the logistics after that is up to him like the decision to break the law in the first place. If they had such a law in place in America i can imagine the anchor babies would be popping up all over the place because 21 years on American soil is a good deal. You could even stagger it out have a kid every couple of years.

Back to the hyperbole again, i have no real interest in engaging with this but if it makes you feel better than fire ahead. You are fair superior to the simple minded ones who just wont give this guy a break.

What are you on about hyperbole? If it still goes over your head that the US chooses their own laws and punishments at their own discretion then there is nothing that can be done to help you.

Do you not understand that these things are not fundamental fixed universal constant of the cosmos? It's not measuring the charge on an electron.

It was reported that he was offered to sign a deal where he can be deported or face up to 4 years in prison. Did that not give you a hint that they have some discretion? You are fixated on deportation as being the only possible outcome

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 10:13AM

whisky_galore wrote: »

They're not white in many cases, they don't have a doting Irish mammy at home wringing her hands, de poor wifey and de childer. Will someone think of de childer? Ticks all the boxes for the Irish media.

What's missing from your own life with all the bitterness and begrudgery?

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 10:21AM

splinter65 wrote: »

You don’t get it at all.
The penalty in the US where he lives for his crime is deportation.
Not a fine, not a slap on the wrist, not bail to appear at a later date pending a probation report, not a 18 month suspended sentence despite having 145 previous convictions, not community service, not probation, not convicted and released with leave to appeal.
That is the way law breakers are dealt here in Ireland.
It’s not they way they deal with them in the US.
Expecting the US authorities to deal with Irish people in a different way, more leniently, just because they’re Irish isn’t just embarrassing, it’s actually racist.
I’m annoyed with the carry on of these people because it’s just mortifying.

I don't know why you think people are expecting it to be to dealt with differently because he's Irish. That is in your own head.

There are plenty of nationalities in US in similar situations. They appeal and go to immigration court and plead their cases. Some get to stay and some don't. You possibly only are aware of Irish ones, but that's just your own lack of knowledge on the matter. Just because you only aware of an appeal of one Irish fella does not mean it is the only appeal ever made. Have a look back at the video I posted of the Guatemalan fella a few pages back. He wasn't Irish. Guatemala is a different country. It's not Ireland.

Bob24 · 18-07-2019 10:26AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

You should never fall in love with anyone until they have gotten their papers sorted. You’re all a bunch of lickspittles.

I don’t think anyone said that.

I was talking about having children with an illegal resident of a country while you already have a child with a citizen of that country. And taking responsibility for the consequences.

If you want to talk about love, true love could have meant him moving back to Ireland temporarily and applying for proper immigration status in the us at the beginning of their relationship and before the consequences of the visa waiver beach became unmanageable. It would have meant living in different countries for a while, but with love and determination that was very possible (and as a matter of fact if you look at immigration forums many people are in that very situation as we speak and the illegal route never crosses their mind).

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 10:29AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

?

Loads of people do pretty much the same as him and get regularized. Loads of people spend their whole life living and working in the US “illegally,” while otherwise paying taxes, and all the rest of it. It would actually hurt the US economy to throw them all out. This is a counterproductive exercise.

Loads of people drink and drive every Saturday night for 40 years, never have an accident, are excellent contributors to their community and society at large and never get caught.
Will I start drinking and driving next Saturday night?
No.
Why?
Because it’s against the law.

LazySamaritan · 18-07-2019 10:31AM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No, there is.

I think in this case, where someone has kids in America and has shown himself to be hardworking and reliable over many years, it's a waste of time and a human tragedy to put him in prison.

Everyone loses.

I assume you have a basis for saying he is hardworking so I won’t argue but can you really say he is reliable when he broke the law?

And calling it a “human tragedy” is being a touch melodramatic.

LazySamaritan · 18-07-2019 10:32AM

splinter65 wrote: »

Loads of people drink and drive every Saturday night for 40 years, never have an accident, are excellent contributors to their community and society at large and never get caught.
Will I start drinking and driving next Saturday night?
No.
Why?
Because it’s against the law.

I hope that isn’t the only reason you won’t do it

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 10:33AM

splinter65 wrote: »

Loads of people drink and drive every Saturday night for 40 years, never have an accident, are excellent contributors to their community and society at large and never get caught.
Will I start drinking and driving next Saturday night?
No.
Why?
Because it’s against the law.

That’s a really stupid comparison. Drinking and driving is harmful in itself. Undocumented migrants can make a positive contribution despite their irregular status, while a drunk driver is always bad

LazySamaritan · 18-07-2019 10:38AM

There is a lesson to be learned here - don’t do drugs!!!

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 10:39AM

Bob24 wrote: »

If you want to talk about love, true love could have meant him moving back to Ireland temporarily and applying for proper immigration status in the us at the beginning of their relationship and before the consequences of the visa waiver beach b came unmanageable. It would have meant living in different countries for a while, but with love and determination that was very possible (and as a matter of fact if you look at immigration forums many people are in that situation and the illegal route never crosses their mind).

Well, there is no sliding scale. As the pedantic pseudo-autistic-seven-year-olds contributing to the threads will be glad to hear, once you overstay, by even one second past midnight, then you have broken the rules. It is irrelevant how long you stay for after that. Overstaying by one minute is the same as overstaying by twenty years for the purpose of that specific "offence". You would need to petition an immigration court should you overstay by that one minute. It would be likely you would win, but you would still have to go through that to have the mark removed.

What I gather is your man's big issue is that he made a false declaration. The overstaying is in and of itself, not insurmountable in the greater scheme of things. It would still cause problems but would have likely been workable. Especially given his marriage and kids. (Shock horror dudes - they don't always rigorously implement the letter of one single law in isolation)

weldoninhio · 18-07-2019 11:00AM

I wonder what time his flight is tomorrow?

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 11:09AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

That’s a really stupid comparison. Drinking and driving is harmful in itself. Undocumented migrants can make a positive contribution despite their irregular status, while a drunk driver is always bad

You are insisting on referring to illegal immigrants as undocumented migrants, I’ve no idea why. It seems to be a made up expression like “toxic masculinity” or “patriarchy” from people who struggle to deal with reality and facts.
However.
I’ve pointed out, 1000s of drunk drivers never have an accident. That doesn’t justify breaking the drink driving laws.
1000000s are living in the US illegally.
They may be wonderful people.
That doesn’t justify breaking the immigration laws.
You can’t just decide which laws don’t meet your approval and then disregard them. You must be able to see that if everyone did that then there’d soon be chaos?

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 11:15AM

splinter65 wrote: »

You are insisting on referring to illegal immigrants as undocumented migrants, I’ve no idea why. It seems to be a made up expression like “toxic masculinity” or “patriarchy” from people who struggle to deal with reality and facts.
However.
I’ve pointed out, 1000s of drunk drivers never have an accident. That doesn’t justify breaking the drink driving laws.
1000000s are living in the US illegally.
They may be wonderful people.
That doesn’t justify breaking the immigration laws.
You can’t just decide which laws don’t meet your approval and then disregard them. You must be able to see that if everyone did that then there’d soon be chaos?

Undocumented is the correct term—certainly in an Irish context, a solicitor would refer to such a person’s status as undocumented, not as illegal.

It doesn’t matter whether an instance of drink driving results in an accident or not; it is an inherently dangerous activity, and increases the risk to everyone on the road. The same cannot be said of an undocumented migrant.

splinter65 · 18-07-2019 11:37AM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Undocumented is the correct term—certainly in an Irish context, a solicitor would refer to such a person’s status as undocumented, not as illegal.

It doesn’t matter whether an instance of drink driving results in an accident or not; it is an inherently dangerous activity, and increases the risk to everyone on the road. The same cannot be said of an undocumented migrant.

But he’s not in Ireland he’s in the US, where he’s an illegal immigrant.
You are trying to argue that only activities that might cause physical danger to the culprit or others should be illegal.
So no penalties for tax evasion or financial corruption or theft or house breaking or any of those activities, no?

joe swanson · 18-07-2019 11:43AM

Don't see the issue. If a Nigerian man was being deported from here under similar circumstances there would be no outcry.

Illegal immigrant -out you go

Cryptopagan · 18-07-2019 11:53AM

splinter65 wrote: »

But he’s not in Ireland he’s in the US, where he’s an illegal immigrant.
You are trying to argue that only activities that might cause physical danger to the culprit or others should be illegal.
So no penalties for tax evasion or financial corruption or theft or house breaking or any of those activities, no?

I didn’t argue anything of the sort, and I’m pretty much done responding to dumb comments.

A person evading taxes is always bar. Corruption is always bad. Theft is always bad. But living and working in a country while not having legally migrated is not always bad. The US has millions of them, and despite the rhetoric is in no rush to deport them all. It actually provides some avenues to rectify this status.

And I haven’t argued that there should be no penalty for this guy—just that deportation does harm and no tangible good.

Donald Trump · 18-07-2019 11:56AM

joe swanson wrote: »

Don't see the issue. If a Nigerian man was being deported from here under similar circumstances there would be no outcry.

Plenty of examples
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/kunle-gutted-over-order-26406088.html

That fella had a kid here before being deported. Got some student in Tallaght pregnant after being allowed back in after his first deportation due to outcry in the media and an interview of him wearing his school uniform sitting on the tarmac of the airport in Lagos or wherever he was sent to (despite claims of credit card scams among other things aside from offences he was convicted of .... along with suspicions that he was much older than he claimed to be)

Poor oul' Pamela and her expensive Walter Mitty tales even got plenty of coverage back in the day.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/1m-legal-bill-after-pamela-and-girls-finally-deported-26753400.html

Or you could ask your local Malawian wannabe county councillor who might have overstayed their visa in Ireland, gone to UK to claim asylum, then back to Ireland to claim asylum and being arrested in UK for illegal entry.

Bar this fella's initial omitting to disclose his convictions, he doesn't appear to have tried to game the system. Yes he overstayed. But the way it is being reported, he held his hands up fairly early and tried to fix that.

Irishman set to be deported from the US

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