Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Irishman set to be deported from the US

1…910121415…24

Comments

  • #332
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,112 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I accept that, but it shows what hypocrites we have running the country. If the legislation was updated like all other EU countries he wouldn't have been pulling a fast one, how did he get a social security number without being a permanent resident? Was it his marriage?

    If my uncle hadnt balls he'd be my aunt.

    He chanced it and lost, painted himself into a corner. Make an exception for him and you'd have to make one for everyone with a sob story.


  • #333
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    If my uncle hadnt balls he'd be my aunt.

    He chanced it and lost, painted himself into a corner. Make an exception for him and you'd have to make one for everyone with a sob story.

    Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.


  • #334
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.

    The current system allows for motoring and minor public order offences and convictions with less than a twelve month sentence to be spent after seven years no?

    That doesn't seem unreasonable. How would you change it?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html


  • #335
    notobtuse
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭notobtuse


    He’s being held in a correctional facility just 15 minutes up the road from me. It’s not that bad a facility but being in corrections sucks no matter how you look at it. They do maintain a zero tolerance policy regarding sexual harassment, assault or abuse (a lot of prisoners there get out on work release and any violation removes them from it, and the prisoners do enjoy work release as it also provides them several hours a day free time on the outside to do personal things. I have hired several work release people as I believe in second chances). His wife says "He's being treated as a criminal and he's not…” Unfortunately, yes he is a criminal for overstaying his visa now for 10 years. If he gets himself a good Philadelphia lawyer he can probably beat our system and remain. He may never gain US citizenship but he might be allowed to stay.

    You can ignorantly accuse me of "whataboutism," but what it really is involves identifying similar scenarios in order to see if it holds up when the shoe is on the other foot!



  • #336
    Calhoun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Something fishy about it, if he had the right connections and could have gotten over through other means why did he go the way he did?

    As for second chances, we give enough of them in Ireland. Hard cases don't make good law and i'd rather not have something like this be driven because some gob****e wants to lie to the US government.


  • Advertisement
  • #337
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,733 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    I don't see why, countries don't want people who have convictions in their country. They have a right to be picky, very sad for the people involved but fair from the countries point of view. I think we would feel the same.
    Should a conviction follow people for life? especially the minor ones? I'm open to correction but it was a few spliff's yeah? what relevance has that 16 years later if no further offences are committed? Flanagan and Cowen openly admitted to taking illegal substances and still travel to all these countries even if they have no conviction.
    Stephen15 wrote: »
    100% he should be deported he broke the law in America and he should be made pay for that doesn't matter if he has children or not he still broke the law. All the people who call me a racist for wanting to deport illegal immigrants in Ireland even though I think lrish people should be deported too.

    The laws of the land in any country must apply, this case is no different, my argument is about the convictions not being spent/erased, if they were we wouldn't be having the discussion or it wouldn't have hit the news most likely.
    Travelling to those countries is not what we are talking about though? We are talking about emigration and obviously you are going to select those without convictions. I think that's fair enough. High demand they are going to select those without criminal convictions.

    I don't care if it was one spliff or ten million I think it's a fair rule. There are a lot of people who want to get in.

    I don't know if it makes any difference how long it is. The question on the visa form asks if you have ever been arrested so if you have you are lying whatever country you are from if you say no.


  • #338
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    The current system allows for motoring and minor public order offences and convictions with less than a twelve month sentence to be spent after seven years no?

    That doesn't seem unreasonable. How would you change it?

    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/spent_convictions.html

    All minor offences that carry 12 months in prison or less should be wiped after 7-10 years, also the adult caution scheme needs to be extended. Personal possession would be a good candidate for the ACS.


  • #339
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    All minor offences that carry 12 months in prison or less should be wiped after 7-10 years, also the adult caution scheme needs to be extended. Personal possession would be a good candidate for the ACS.

    What minor offences are not covered under the rules I listed?


  • #340
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Something fishy about it, if he had the right connections and could have gotten over through other means why did he go the way he did?

    As for second chances, we give enough of them in Ireland. Hard cases don't make good law and i'd rather not have something like this be driven because some gob****e wants to lie to the US government.

    They reckon someone with a grudge snitched on him and it came to this.


  • #341
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    What minor offences are not covered under the rules I listed?

    I'll go back over it after me dinner and let you know.


  • Advertisement
  • #342
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I'll go back over it after me dinner and let you know.

    The 12 month offence only applies to one offence in fairness


  • #343
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    The 12 month offence only applies to one offence in fairness

    I had a recent vetting disclosure done and i just looked at it. I was convicted of Section 2 ( common) assault under the non fatal offences against the person act 1997, there are 2 convictions for the same offence recorded on the same date in May 1998, 4 months after i turned 18, i was out on the lash and got heavily drunk/into a fight with 2 people, both matters were dealt with simultaneously by the courts i was convicted on one, the other taken into consideration, this is where i was caught in the legislation as it is classed as more than 1 conviction from the same incident. I've carried that cross for the last 21 years and been rejected by both the U.S and Oz in 2008 as a result, the spent convictions legislation does not apply to my case.


  • #344
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I had a recent vetting disclosure done and i just looked at it. I was convicted of Section 2 ( common) assault under the non fatal offences against the person act 1997, there are 2 convictions for the same offence recorded on the same date in May 1998, 4 months after i turned 18, i was out on the lash and got heavily drunk/into a fight with 2 people, both matters were dealt with simultaneously by the courts i was convicted on one, the other taken into consideration, this is where i was caught in the legislation as it is classed as more than 1 conviction from the same incident. I've carried that cross for the last 21 years and been rejected by both the U.S and Oz in 2008 as a result, the spent convictions legislation does not apply to my case.
    So you think multiple assault convictions sho .uk of be allowed to be spent?

    I don't tbh. And the legislation calls out you still have to disclose to the US


  • #345
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    So you think multiple assault convictions sho .uk of be allowed to be spent?

    I don't tbh. And the legislation calls out you still have to disclose to the US

    After 7-10 years if no further offending has occurred and rehabilitation is obvious then yes.

    I declared it hence the rejection, i've no issue with it now as i'm here for the rest of my days. but for the generations ahead it would be a good move.


  • #346
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    After 7-10 years if no further offending has occurred and rehabilitation is obvious then yes.

    I declared it hence the rejection, i've no issue with it now as i'm here for the rest of my days. but for the generations ahead it would be a good move.

    So where do you stop? What if someone is convicted of five was assaults over five years, do they become spent seven years after the last one?


  • #347
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,112 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Of course he lost it and he'll be sent back here otherwise the floodgates will open, no issue there. Do you not think that going forward that this country needs to have legislation for a proper spent convictions system and not the current mess we have in place that is heavily restrictive? That is my point here, or are you against second chances? it's not like we are talking about yer one up the country with her 648 convictions at 44 years old and spent 27 of those holed up in a prison.

    Unless someone campaigned for change and got things rolling. Frankly it doesn't affect me so I'm not really bothered. Maybe you could.


  • #348
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    If Ireland had the same spent convictions legislation that most of Europe have, such as the departing UK since 1974 the convictions would probably have been expunged and the issue resolved.

    Are you someone who believes a conviction should remain in place until a person goes to the grave/crematorium and beyond?

    AFAIK even convictions that have been expunged have to be declared when travelling to the US.


  • #349
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    So where do you stop? What if someone is convicted of five was a ui it's over five years, do they become spent seven years after the last one?

    You know the old saying, 3 strikes and you're out kinda thing.

    7 years from the last one indeed.

    Just to give you an example, i work in a nightclub on the weekends on top of my own job, i had to go through the process to obtain a licence in that area which included vetting, the relevant body is aware of my history and still granted me a licence as it some people do more stupid acts than others in life especially younger ones like myself and Keith Byrne, does it really mean that it must be used as a beating stick until a persons dying day?People do change, i'm unsure if it is better to start a separate thread on this particular matter even though it is relevant in a way.

    Something like the below should be mirrored in spent convictions legislation

    https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf/Files/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf


  • #350
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    Unless someone campaigned for change and got things rolling. Frankly it doesn't affect me so I'm not really bothered. Maybe you could.

    I gave up to be honest, plus i'm approaching 40 with a large family who are all well and truly settled so i wouldn't dream of uprooting them but for the future generations i would be in favour of change.


  • #351
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    AFAIK even convictions that have been expunged have to be declared when travelling to the US.

    The expunged bit i'm unaware of TBH, i did declare them and was told i was being declined, the wife was sorted alright though, i was 28 at the time of rejection and not much older than Mr Byrne, i think he's 2 years younger than me.


  • Advertisement
  • #352
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    You know the old saying, 3 strikes and you're out kinda thing.

    7 years from the last one indeed.

    Just to give you an example, i work in a nightclub on the weekends on top of my own job, i had to go through the process to obtain a licence in that area which included vetting, the relevant body is aware of my history and still granted me a licence as it some people do more stupid acts than others in life especially younger ones like myself and Keith Byrne, does it really mean that it must be used as a beating stick until a persons dying day?People do change, i'm unsure if it is better to start a separate thread on this particular matter even though it is relevant in a way.

    Something like the below should be mirrored in spent convictions legislation

    https://www.psa.gov.ie/en/PSA/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf/Files/Fit%20&%20Proper%20Guidelines%20(Approved%20March%202012).pdf

    Consequences. People need to understand the principle


  • #353
    circular flexing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭circular flexing


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    AFAIK even convictions that have been expunged have to be declared when travelling to the US.

    Correct. US doesn't recognise spent convictions or anything like that. They also treat a caution as a conviction in court.


  • #354
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    Consequences. People need to understand the principle

    I agree, young people need more education about the consequences of a criminal conviction, it isn't drilled into their heads enough, it wasn't at all in my day.


  • #355
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I agree, young people need more education about the consequences of a criminal conviction, it isn't drilled into their heads enough, it wasn't at all in my day.

    It was in mine and I'm almost ten years older than you


  • #356
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    They reckon someone with a grudge snitched on him and it came to this.

    Who are they? Was that reported somewhere?


  • #357
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    I agree, young people need more education about the consequences of a criminal conviction, it isn't drilled into their heads enough, it wasn't at all in my day.
    What also needs to be drilled into them is that the US/Oz isn't the only place they can move to ,plenty of other places in the world to enjoy or indeed rasie a family. Might involve learning a foreign language though......



    https://www.btselem.org/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_war_crimes


  • #358
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Who are they? Was that reported somewhere?

    Neil Prendeville show on Cork's RedFM, there's a podcast from today on it.

    http://www.redfm.ie/on-air/podcasts/neil-prendeville-on-redfm/episode/14th-july-2019/


  • #359
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,112 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    What also needs to be drilled into them is that the US/Oz isn't the only place they can move to ,plenty of other places in the world to enjoy or indeed rasie a family. Might involve learning a foreign language though......

    Thats far too much trouble for Irish people esp when they aren't inclined to learn their own one.


  • #360
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Stheno wrote: »
    It was in mine and I'm almost ten years older than you

    Aye different times.


  • Advertisement
  • #361
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    What also needs to be drilled into them is that the US/Oz isn't the only place they can move to ,plenty of other places in the world to enjoy or indeed rasie a family. Might involve learning a foreign language though......

    Within Europe isn't a problem or at least it wasn't, i always had a soft spot for Asia, alas i would have had the same issue. But there are some nice EU countries like Austria,Italy etc.


Advertisement