Boards Draft Tournament - New Signups!

correction · 13-07-2019 12:02PM

Current Premier League Draft

Sorry lads. Making my pick now.

SlickRic · 13-07-2019 12:52PM

RasTa wrote: »

Surprised to see Fabinho. Surely that's the worst pick so far in an all time PL squad. Has he even played 30 PL games?

I purposely stayed away from Robertson, Fabinho, B Silva and the like because they haven't, IMO, done it for long enough compared to others available.

Each to their own, but I hope longevity has a role in people's thinking. I'm not expecting Djimi Traore to be considered better than Robertson, but you get me.

redzerdrog · 13-07-2019 01:14PM

All time English league draft

SlickRic wrote: »

I purposely stayed away from Robertson, Fabinho, B Silva and the like because they haven't, IMO, done it for long enough compared to others available.

Each to their own, but I hope longevity has a role in people's thinking. I'm not expecting Djimi Traore to be considered better than Robertson, but you get me.

Andy Robertson has 115 premier league appearance and a total of 78 appearances for Liverpool. I'd argue that's a significant sample size to determine his peak ability.

Santo Corzola has 129 premier league appearances

Big difference to someone who has played half a season

SlickRic · 13-07-2019 01:21PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

Andy Robertson has 115 premier league appearance and a total of 78 appearances for Liverpool. I'd argue that's a significant sample size to determine his peak ability.

Santo Corzola has 129 premier league appearances

Big difference to someone who has played half a season

Not saying Robertson isn't a great pick, and I probably shouldn't have put him with Fabinho in that list.

That bring said, the comparison with Cazorla isn't entirely fair. Robertson has been integral to Liverpool for probably less than half the games Cazorla was for Arsenal.

RasTa · 13-07-2019 01:21PM

I just checked, 28 PL games! How many of them where at CB too?

redzerdrog · 13-07-2019 03:35PM

All time English league draft

Fabinho although is a gamble isn't necessarily a bad pick. His peak ability is certainly above some others in his position however it is harder to determine how likely he is to produce that peak ability.

I think I'd prefer to be gambling on him being able to produce his peak ability rather than someone who's peak ability is considerably lower yet had had a long career in the league

13-07-2019 03:47PM

All time English league draft

Kewell very good at this point. One of the ones I was talking about as one of the attackers I was surprised was still around at this stage.

Trigger · 13-07-2019 03:52PM

All time English league draft

Yeah I was hoping he would hold out as wanted others before him.thankfully he did

AidoEirE · 13-07-2019 04:18PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Some thoughts on the teams so far...

Impressed by the pace out wide, and with a powerful core. Looking to me like the team to beat as it stands so far.

Lot of ballers in this side which I like, and a strong defence taking shape too.

Nice mix of flair and steel. Like the Pogba pick personally; at his best he's a handful for any side.

Happy enough so far, though gutted my top targets were gobbled up the last 24 hours.

I like the spine of this side, and there's plenty of serious goal threat on the flanks.

Another team with a strong centre, and great dribbling talents out wide.

Really like this mix of 90s and current stars. Looks a big threat up top.

Van Dijk and McGrath combo is a dream team. Left flank of this team looks one of the best in the game.

Like this mix of creativity and defensive strength. Wise I think was a clever pick (wise even) as he was able to hold his own in the tough 90s midfield era.

Strong midfield and defence and exciting wing threat. Curious to discover who you choose as your striker.

I like the fact that you built from the defence up to the attack, and it hasn't hurt your ability to find quality at the other end of the field.

Getting a nice Chelsea/Arsenal vibe from this side which I like. I think the Sanchez pick is a good one as in his prime Arsenal period he was a big danger.

Some great entertainers in this team who would be fun to watch. Dangerous set-piece threat as well I notice.

Loving the balance of this team. Can see this being one of the strongest sides.

Lot of combative characters in this side which I like. Will be tough nut to crack for any team.

I dig this blend of attacking threat up top and tenacity in midfield. I think the Dembele pick was an underrated one. While not the most glamorous choice, a bit like my thought process behind picking Fletcher he allows the others in the team to do damage. Petrescu a quality blast from the past too.

Overall been very impressed with the choices in this draft. I did one of these on the soccer forum well over a decade ago and don't remember it being of this standard. I don't see any teams with a porous looking shape. Everyone has clearly thought carefully about who they want and why.

Next few rounds will be very significant of course, but the way it's looking I think we're in for some cracking match-ups.

After reading all that im damned that i didnt join, looks great craic. Some dream teams, will be following this thread as its a great read

SlickRic · 13-07-2019 05:31PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

Fabinho although is a gamble isn't necessarily a bad pick. His peak ability is certainly above some others in his position however it is harder to determine how likely he is to produce that peak ability.

I think I'd prefer to be gambling on him being able to produce his peak ability rather than someone who's peak ability is considerably lower yet had had a long career in the league

Yes, but there are very few picked, or will be picked, whose peak ability is so far below his that he outstrips their longevity.

martyos121 · 13-07-2019 06:05PM

All time European cup competitions draft

I knew very well the risk I was taking in picking Fabinho, I said as much the moment I made the selection. I chose him to fit a very particular system I’ve had in mind since the beginning of the draft as my other ideas for that role were all snapped up to my surprise, and once I put my entire team together and lay out my tactics, some may be convinced that he was the best option available, even with the major disadvantage of lacking longevity.

Personally, I’d value 20+ consecutive quality midfield performances over someone like Pogba (there are others, just picking the easiest example) who is extremely hot and cold and has had probably as many good games in his Premier League career, just way more spaced out. Consistency at a high level over half a season is more valuable to me than a player who goes completely missing in about half the Premier League games he’s played.

Anyway, I believe the debating part of the draft mainly takes place once the teams are complete so I’ll leave it there for now.

Very happy to pick up Lukaku, don’t think he’d have come back around to me in the next round so that’s a big part of my team sorted now.

bucketybuck · 13-07-2019 06:55PM

My issue with the some of the players with short terms in the PL is people describing them as top quality, when I don't really think that is always a proven fact, not yet.

Yes he may have had a good finish to the season, but history is full of players who had a good period and then declined immediately. Its very possible that the player gets second season syndrome and his form falls of a cliff, its happened lots of times and thats why the longevity factor has importance, because it means you know for certain this player is top quality and not just a flash in the pan.

Just my opinion of course and it is only one factor to be considered, but I think that if the player has only a short time in the PL to judge him on then there needs to be some mitigating factor to balance that out.

For instance there is a guy who absolutely tore up the PL for one season and then left, that short time in the league could hurt him except that he was absolutely world class and famous in the rest of his career as well, so you could say with certainty how he would do in this hypothetical tournament.

Its not quite the same for a guy who just arrived and is still building his career.

redzerdrog · 13-07-2019 06:58PM

All time English league draft

He was pretty good for Monaco aswell though so that helps his argument

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 12:32PM

All time English league draft

Arteta is an excellent pick. I thought people had forgot about him.

I was nearly gona try shoehorn him into my side

jayo26 · 14-07-2019 12:38PM

All time English league draft

redzerdrog wrote: »

Arteta is an excellent pick. I thought people had forgot about him.

I was nearly gona try shoehorn him into my side

Was gonna pick him last time round but went for keeper instead.

RasTa · 14-07-2019 12:52PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

He was pretty good for Monaco aswell though so that helps his argument

So was Pogba at Juve if we are judging by that logic

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 12:56PM

All time English league draft

RasTa wrote: »

So was Pogba at Juve if we are judging by that logic

I am not, but it's also different as Pogba has flopped in premier league so your argument is flawed

jayo26 · 14-07-2019 01:04PM

All time English league draft

Was pretty much stated before game started that players level was going to be judged on their peak level in premierleague I don't know what people are trying to use form from other leagues as a justification of picking a player because they couldn't get someone they wanted.

Pogba is a terrible pick for a Premier league draft if your judging on his premier league form and Fabinho isn't much better if people are going to look at players accomplishments on the premier league and longterm form to decide which is better.

In my opinion I hope people will look at how teams are built with conections and achievements and concistently performing over players that have played less then 20 games in anyone position.

SlickRic · 14-07-2019 01:13PM

It was Arteta v Cazorla for me last round.

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 01:20PM

All time English league draft

SlickRic wrote: »

It was Arteta v Cazorla for me last round.

Cazorla suits your team better imo

RasTa · 14-07-2019 01:39PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

I am not, but it's also different as Pogba has flopped in premier league so your argument is flawed

What has Fabinho done? If you're not including his Monaco form then why did you mention that point? Pogba was in the PFA team of the year which seems strange from a flop

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 02:14PM

All time English league draft

RasTa wrote: »

What has Fabinho done? If you're not including his Monaco form then why did you mention that point? Pogba was in the PFA team of the year which seems strange from a flop

Not here to argue the pros and cons of either player. I was responding to buckys rationale about an upicked player who burnt the league up for one season and how that we can determine that this wasn't a fluke going by the rest of his career. I don't particularly agree/disagree with what he is saying just pointing out that his theory could help back up fabinho case somewhat.

I have been pretty clear on how I will judge players ie peak ability while in premier league and likelihood of them producing that peak ability. I think each manager will be able to make their own arguments as to why.
I am sure Pogba getting into toty will be one of them arguments made

bucketybuck · 14-07-2019 02:33PM

redzerdrog wrote: »

I don't particularly agree/disagree with what he is saying just pointing out that his theory could help back up fabinho case somewhat.

Which I disagree with. The guy I referenced didn't just have a good career elsewhere, he had a world class legendary career elsewhere. Thats the sort of level I would class as a mitigating factor, it has to be more than just being good for his previous club.

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 03:09PM

All time English league draft

bucketybuck wrote: »

Which I disagree with. The guy I referenced didn't just have a good career elsewhere, he had a world class legendary career elsewhere. Thats the sort of level I would class as a mitigating factor, it has to be more than just being good for his previous club.

So there would obviously be a stronger argument for him as he has achieved his peak ability in the premier league over one season but also proved it wasn't a flash in the pan so there is a good argument for him.

But having to make this argument is also the reason he hasn't been picked yet. Also there is the danger of his second spell clouding judgement.

RasTa · 14-07-2019 04:10PM

Surprised Butt went this far, solid pick considering some of the players who went before him. Dunno much about the Everton lad.

14-07-2019 04:18PM

All time English league draft

RasTa wrote: »

Surprised Butt went this far, solid pick considering some of the players who went before him. Dunno much about the Everton lad.

Think it's because he's not a glamorous name really and was only outright first choice at United the season Keane went down. Could play as an anchor man style in his later years but at his peak was capable of bursting forward too. Think he compliments Alonso quite well.

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 05:23PM

All time English league draft

There is 3 players I want for this round so need to go through the teams and figure out which one is most likely to make it back to me.

dr.kenneth noisewater · 14-07-2019 05:45PM

Radabe was on my list for next pick, good pick

martyos121 · 14-07-2019 06:39PM

All time European cup competitions draft

jayo26 wrote: »

Was pretty much stated before game started that players level was going to be judged on their peak level in premierleague I don't know what people are trying to use form from other leagues as a justification of picking a player because they couldn't get someone they wanted.

Pogba is a terrible pick for a Premier league draft if your judging on his premier league form and Fabinho isn't much better if people are going to look at players accomplishments on the premier league and longterm form to decide which is better.

In my opinion I hope people will look at how teams are built with conections and achievements and concistently performing over players that have played less then 20 games in anyone position.

I don’t see anyone doing that.

I picked Fabinho to fit my system, the best player available to play the role I need in my team. I never mentioned his form in another league, nor would I expect it to be taken into account. That was redzer’s argument and while I understand and appreciate it, I don’t completely agree with it. I made the pick knowing he’d be judged on a small sample size, and I still deemed him a worthy selection for what I’m trying to do.

If I’m being honest, there are a good 8 or 9 picks I’d consider worse at this stage for a variety of reasons, yet I’ll hold out my final judgment until the teams are complete because they may be crucial to the tactics some players will use. Longevity is only one factor to be taken into account, and anyone judging picks purely on that measure alone would be severely limiting the range of picks that could be made. There’s a few players left that tore up the PL for a season or so, and if they can be fit into teams effectively, I wouldn’t consider them bad picks.

There’s no set criteria for judging teams, what you value more in a player and team may not be in line with others, and vice versa. A collection of superstars with little thought or appreciation of tactics and how to get the most out of them won’t impress me, for example. Each to their own.

It’s all about the tradeoff at the end of the day. In the first couple of rounds, you have quality players who have plenty of longevity in the league, whereas the further you go down, you either sacrifice a bit of class for longevity (Fletcher, Cahill etc.) or you sacrifice longevity for class (Bernardo Silva, Pogba, Fabinho etc.).

As I said before, maybe we should wait until the teams are complete and the matchups before dissecting picks too much? Isn’t the whole point of the draft to pit teams against others and see which is the best, collectively?

Not having a go at you jayo or anyone else for that matter, just wanted to quote that part in bold as it’s not an argument I was making, it was an argument made by someone else about my pick. The rest of the post is just my general opinion on the draft process. It’s a great thing to be invested in, haven’t done one before but I’m really enjoying it so far.

redzerdrog · 14-07-2019 06:43PM

All time English league draft

By the way it was bucketys argument not mine I was just saying you could apply tge same rationale to Fabinho to a lesser degree as he was applying

Boards Draft Tournament - New Signups!

Comments