Property Market 2019

Interested Observer · 09-07-2019 10:07am

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Yeah laughable stuff. It's a filthy kip and a rip off. Imagine what 500k would get you elsewhere.

You seem to have a massive chip on your shoulder re. Dublin.

SozBbz · 09-07-2019 10:44am

fret_wimp2 wrote: »

Horses for courses.
If im looking for a 20 min commute to work, access to top schools & third level institutions, more career options and/or prefer a more urban lifestyle then Dublin ticks all the boxes.

if im looking for breathtaking scenery away from everyone then I might prefer the ring of kerry.

Then there's proximity to family which can make any location desirable to certain people.]
There are many factors that make a location desirable.

Absolutely.

Another factor that people don't consider when talking the ring of kerry or other beauty spots on the wild atlantic way, is that we all probably have rose tinted memories of being there on fantastic summer days and no doubt seeing some stunning scenery.

I doubt year round reality of actually living there is the as idyllic. When the rain, sleet and snow are coming at you sideways on a lonely tuesday in Febuary then I imagine its a different matter.

Kamili · 09-07-2019 10:52am

SozBbz wrote: »

Absolutely.

Another factor that people don't consider when talking the ring of kerry or other beauty spots on the wild atlantic way, is that we all probably have rose tinted memories of being there on fantastic summer days and no doubt seeing some stunning scenery.

I doubt year round reality of actually living there is the as idyllic. When the rain, sleet and snow are coming at you sideways on a lonely tuesday in Febuary then I imagine its a different matter.

And then to top it all off your internet connection breaks or is slow... maybe even non existent...

beauf · 09-07-2019 11:34am

Everyone knows this which is why I said ... "convenient but amazing?"... Lots of factors in location, many of them pragmatic and/or subjective.

That said even in Dublin you can have problems with internet. I can get Virgin Media which is best. Before that I only had a phone line.
But my Dublin phone line is rubbish for internet and there is no way of fixing it. Eirrorcom will put in a new line (at a price) but won't guarantee it won't be as abysmal as the last one.
This kinda stuff is what holds back countries.

KingCong · 09-07-2019 11:42am

beauf wrote: »

Everyone knows this which is why I said ... "convenient but amazing?"... Lots of factors in location, many of them pragmatic and/or subjective.

That said even in Dublin you can have problems with internet. I can get Virgin Media which is best. Before that I only had a phone line.
But my Dublin phone line is rubbish for internet and there is no way of fixing it. Eirrorcom will put in a new line (at a price) but won't guarantee it won't be as abysmal as the last one.
This kinda stuff is what holds back countries.

Eir will be starting their rollout of fibre to the house in urban areas over the next year, speeds up to 10Gbps - https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/0211/1028809-eir-broadband-investment/

Interested Observer · 09-07-2019 12:17pm

beauf wrote: »

Everyone knows this which is why I said ... "convenient but amazing?"... Lots of factors in location, many of them pragmatic and/or subjective.

I have no hesitation in calling the area I bought in 'amazing', it's a totally subjective thing but I couldn't really think of a better spot I could have moved to. I'm 20 mins from the office, 2 min walk to the Luas, it's a mature cul-de-sac full of families so perfect for my family, right beside a small park with a playground, 2 min walk to a primary school, I can walk into town. It is absolutely ideal for me. I have no interest in living in the Ring of Kerry, spectacular as it is. If you think convenient is as good as it gets for Dublin that's absolutely fine, that's you.

Interested Observer · 09-07-2019 12:44pm

beauf wrote: »

...er....

I see you've edited your post but no I don't agree with you. It's not up to you to tell someone their location is just convenient.

Graham · 09-07-2019 1:00pm

Mod

beauf / interested observer / all. Feel free to continue the broadband/semantics/Kerry discussion by private message.

duffman13 · 10-07-2019 11:23am

Market has definitely slowed in West Dublin anyway. From my own experience, a property on my road sold for 255k in February, 2 bed in need of some work. Houses built in the 80s. Put my own house on the market for 270 with the agent expecting to hit 280ish, my place is a 3 bed with a lot of work done in the last 5 years.

Our house went up in May, little to no interest so far and not one offer. Looking at dropping the price now but even still the same houses that went up 3 to 6 months ago are all still on the market so not feeling confident.

A property I viewed in May to buy, EA flat out told me they wouldn't entertain any offers from me till I was sale agreed so I left it at that. Got a call today from the same agent to see if I wanted to place a bid and said I still wasn't sale agreed. She said well we'd have no problem considering any bid as your property is for sale etc. I know June and July tend to be slow months but I thought I was under cutting the market with my price and will now have to drop or leave it on and wait.

beauf · 10-07-2019 11:39am

Lots of interest in the new developments. I don't know if they sold out or not.

Bluefoam · 10-07-2019 11:56am

duffman13 wrote: »

Market has definitely slowed in West Dublin anyway. From my own experience, a property on my road sold for 255k in February, 2 bed in need of some work. Houses built in the 80s. Put my own house on the market for 270 with the agent expecting to hit 280ish, my place is a 3 bed with a lot of work done in the last 5 years.

Our house went up in May, little to no interest so far and not one offer. Looking at dropping the price now but even still the same houses that went up 3 to 6 months ago are all still on the market so not feeling confident.

A property I viewed in May to buy, EA flat out told me they wouldn't entertain any offers from me till I was sale agreed so I left it at that. Got a call today from the same agent to see if I wanted to place a bid and said I still wasn't sale agreed. She said well we'd have no problem considering any bid as your property is for sale etc. I know June and July tend to be slow months but I thought I was under cutting the market with my price and will now have to drop or leave it on and wait.

Second hand houses in the wesht of Dublin are competing directly with new A rated houses... 80' 90's & 00's houses in west Dublin aren't blessed with big gardens, are built to standards of those eras and don't really have any advantages over newer builds. They are building allot of new homes & first time buyers are buying new to get the 10% money back offer... Also, more mature buyers in the wesht are upgrading... either to bigger properties with bigger gardens and more amentities, possibly more convenient location or are upgrading to more established areas of Dublin...

beauf · 10-07-2019 12:04pm

I think older properties didn't have any new developments to compete with before now. So they were overprice. What we are seeing now is a price adjustment vs new properties. In my opinion.

Fan of Netflix · 10-07-2019 12:06pm

Buyers should wait until next year. They'll begging you take their houses for far less than on offer now. Sit tight, save up and watch supply catch up and the no deal brexit + economy slump.

SozBbz · 10-07-2019 12:30pm

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Buyers should wait until next year. They'll begging you take their houses for far less than on offer now. Sit tight, save up and watch supply catch up and the no deal brexit + economy slump.

Bit pessimistic in my view.

If it suits your circumstances and you find a house you like, then I'd still say go for it. Prices might roll back a bit in some areas but the fundamental supply side issues have not been addressed in any meaningful way so there are still a lot of people looking for properties.

I think this is just the market finding its ceiling in terms of affordability, given the central bank rules.

One thing that people like the above poster fail to consider is that when property prices slide, those who don't have to sell, simply will hold their fire and stay put. When prices start to fall, the number of properties for sale will also fall, so the market essentially self corrects and limits the decline. You'll still have probates and divorces etc, but those who don't need to move simply won't put their houses on the market.

Unless you're a property developer in the business of flipping houses, I really don't think that +/- a few % matters in the long run. If you're not selling and can afford your repayments, and you end up in a property you love and is right for you/your family, then whats the problem if its paper value goes down slightly? You're still there enjoying the roof over your head and gradually chipping away at the mortgage.

SozBbz · 10-07-2019 12:39pm

beauf wrote: »

I think older properties didn't have any new developments to compete with before now. So they were overprice. What we are seeing now is a price adjustment vs new properties. In my opinion.

I can see some truth in this.

Much older properties, say 1930's and older have large plots, character, curb appeal and good locations typically. Myself and many like me put a premuim on these factors.

New houses are A rated, fresh, clean and the help to buy scheme - not for me personally but I can see why its an attractive option for people.

I can see why houses that are newish but not new or oldish without being old enough to have character might fall between the two stools and not quite have the same demand for them.

beauf · 10-07-2019 12:43pm

If there is a no deal bexit / economy slump the supply of new properties will evaporate. Demand will slow, but there is a huge pent up backlog of demand. So its hardly going to disappear. Last time is was cheap credit which disappeared.

The fundamental issue in the market is demand vs supply.

beauf · 10-07-2019 12:46pm

SozBbz wrote: »

I can see some truth in this.

Much older properties, say 1930's and older have large plots, character, curb appeal and good locations typically. Myself and many like me put a premuim on these factors.

New houses are A rated, fresh, clean and the help to buy scheme - not for me personally but I can see why its an attractive option for people.

I can see why houses that are newish but not new or oldish without being old enough to have character might fall between the two stools and not quite have the same demand for them.

The 80s-00s houses often do have bigger gardens and parking, both in driveway and in front of houses. Newer development often have very poor parking for more than two cars, visitors, family events, renting etc.

Even the layout of the estates is more spacious with regard to on road parking.

rireland · 10-07-2019 12:47pm

Seeing a lot of construction/renovations in my estate.

Been there over 5 years and didn't see much happening. The last year I've seen two houses get major extensions/renovations, talking basically like half a new house built on. I've seen one house get major renovations with tenants gone and another must be doing big inside jobs on their own house while living there. Now I've seen another with planning permission notice for something up.

I wonder why they have all started around the same time. Keeping up with the jones's maybe?

Just seems a bit odd how it's all seemingly happening around the same time.

duffman13 · 10-07-2019 1:01pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Second hand houses in the wesht of Dublin are competing directly with new A rated houses... 80' 90's & 00's houses in west Dublin aren't blessed with big gardens, are built to standards of those eras and don't really have any advantages over newer builds. They are building allot of new homes & first time buyers are buying new to get the 10% money back offer... Also, more mature buyers in the wesht are upgrading... either to bigger properties with bigger gardens and more amentities, possibly more convenient location or are upgrading to more established areas of Dublin...

Fair point, locally speaking the new developments of A rated three beds are setting you back 380k starting off and there isn't a huge supply. my own house has had a fair whack done and has a B3 BER as a result. Garden is same size as those of a new build and there is no social housing or very little in my estate. That being said though, I can see why others are going for new developments. Personally I'm looking at moving into an older area and just want a bigger garden but the arguments are there for both sides

duffman13 · 10-07-2019 1:03pm

rireland wrote: »

Seeing a lot of construction/renovations in my estate.

Been there over 5 years and didn't see much happening. The last year I've seen two houses get major extensions/renovations, talking basically like half a new house built on. I've seen one house get major renovations with tenants gone and another must be doing big inside jobs on their own house while living there. Now I've seen another with planning permission notice for something up.

I wonder why they have all started around the same time. Keeping up with the jones's maybe?

Just seems a bit odd how it's all seemingly happening around the same time.

Personally I wish I had bought a property with the space to build on the side, save me having to move but I can build when I choose. Chances are, those building on the side are because of expanding families etc, I dont think anyone is going to pay 50k for an extension to keep up with the Jones:) Or maybe I'm naive.

FutureGuy · 10-07-2019 1:14pm

I think we have to take each area on it's own merits.

Take limerick for example. Not a lot of new housing stock, and it seems one of the more prominent new builds has ceased building 2 months ago and a second looks like it may be following suit.

We are also seeing a lot of investment from US and International firms who seem to be happy to set up and expand here in the shadow of Brexit.

I can't really see a hit on second-hand prices any time soon, particularly if the help to buy scheme is not renewed.

rireland · 10-07-2019 1:27pm

duffman13 wrote: »

Personally I wish I had bought a property with the space to build on the side, save me having to move but I can build when I choose. Chances are, those building on the side are because of expanding families etc, I dont think anyone is going to pay 50k for an extension to keep up with the Jones:) Or maybe I'm naive.

These houses don't have space really. They're semi Ds with half being 2 story and other half being 1 story. So they're building on top of the 1 story part.

beauf · 10-07-2019 1:56pm

rireland wrote: »

Seeing a lot of construction/renovations in my estate.

Been there over 5 years and didn't see much happening. The last year I've seen two houses get major extensions/renovations, talking basically like half a new house built on. I've seen one house get major renovations with tenants gone and another must be doing big inside jobs on their own house while living there. Now I've seen another with planning permission notice for something up.

I wonder why they have all started around the same time. Keeping up with the jones's maybe?

Just seems a bit odd how it's all seemingly happening around the same time.

Same everywhere. Often its because the estate ages at the same time, so people might have decided its cheaper and better lift/work balance to extend rather then remortgage to get a new place. Maybe their parents have passed on and left a bit of money. Or maybe they now are all in better jobs and have cleared their existing mortgage, but the house needs updating.

kippy · 10-07-2019 1:59pm

rireland wrote: »

Seeing a lot of construction/renovations in my estate.

Been there over 5 years and didn't see much happening. The last year I've seen two houses get major extensions/renovations, talking basically like half a new house built on. I've seen one house get major renovations with tenants gone and another must be doing big inside jobs on their own house while living there. Now I've seen another with planning permission notice for something up.

I wonder why they have all started around the same time. Keeping up with the jones's maybe?

Just seems a bit odd how it's all seemingly happening around the same time.

Could be a similar age profile in the house, couples buying a few years ago, now they have young kids, need more space and decided not to move.
Couple be the availability of building contractors in the area, could be any number of things, including keeping up with the Jones

paulieeye · 10-07-2019 2:11pm

Fan of Netflix wrote: »

Buyers should wait until next year. They'll begging you take their houses for far less than on offer now. Sit tight, save up and watch supply catch up and the no deal brexit + economy slump.

Its quite difficult to predict the future market as there's so many factors involved. Yes this is one approach, wait it out and hope that prices will fall. But as long as you know that its a gamble.

But the problem is you need a place to live now. So what do you do, pay rent until prices go down? What does the none guaranteed price decrease work out as after you take the rent into account? That can basically be seen as all adding on to the cost you are going to pay for your new house next year. Say your lucky and paying 1200 a month on rent. So thats a decrease of 14k, (about 4% on a 350k house) across 12 months needed before you can see benefits of waiting. Then bring in the other factors mentioned of less supply if prices dip.

If you listen to absolute statements like "They'll begging you take their houses for far less than on offer now." you're being very silly. Work out your own criteria. Is it worth waiting? Have you found a house now that you like? Will the decrease even matter that much on a month to month basis.

They only way I would see it being worthwhile is if prices drop by like 30%. Thats the gamble but at least know that you are gambling on a long shot that may or may not pay off.

People have been saying that another crash is around the corner in these threads going back 3 years. No doubt there will be one at some stage but when? And will it be to the same extent as 2009?

DingDongDitch · 10-07-2019 3:27pm

paulieeye wrote: »

Its quite difficult to predict the future market as there's so many factors involved. Yes this is one approach, wait it out and hope that prices will fall. But as long as you know that its a gamble.

But the problem is you need a place to live now. So what do you do, pay rent until prices go down? What does the none guaranteed price decrease work out as after you take the rent into account? That can basically be seen as all adding on to the cost you are going to pay for your new house next year. Say your lucky and paying 1200 a month on rent. So thats a decrease of 14k, (about 4% on a 350k house) across 12 months needed before you can see benefits of waiting. Then bring in the other factors mentioned of less supply if prices dip.

If you listen to absolute statements like "They'll begging you take their houses for far less than on offer now." you're being very silly. Work out your own criteria. Is it worth waiting? Have you found a house now that you like? Will the decrease even matter that much on a month to month basis.

They only way I would see it being worthwhile is if prices drop by like 30%. Thats the gamble but at least know that you are gambling on a long shot that may or may not pay off.

People have been saying that another crash is around the corner in these threads going back 3 years. No doubt there will be one at some stage but when? And will it be to the same extent as 2009?

I would have a read of that poster's history before bothering to construct a reply to him. There's a very troll-like theme to a lot of them lately.

hmmm · 10-07-2019 6:34pm

The new CSO index shows prices rising again - https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-rppi/residentialpropertypriceindexmay2019/

Looks a lot like a "normal" housing market to me, it has largely stabilised. Hopefully so, big jumps up or down suit very few.

Certainly my observations is that properties in the 250 to 450k bracket are selling at close to their asking prices, and the ones that are selling fastest are the ones which don't require much work - buyers want to move in to a place to live in, not spend 6 months gutting it.

OwlsZat · 10-07-2019 8:33pm

AirBnB finally stopped in my apt block. Won't miss them.

riclad · 10-07-2019 9:09pm

Theres an article in move sunday times newspaper ,this week
about co living.Buildings with shared kitchen, common spaces, each tenant
gets 1 bedroom.It says if these are popular with investors .it could push
up prices on house,s and apartments as site values will rise.
These will be the new bedsits .It may be cheaper to build a co op living
space than an apartment block, as 5 plus people will be sharing one large kitchen .
So it will be cheaper to build as there will not be 1 kitchen space for each tenant .

ZX7R · 10-07-2019 9:27pm

riclad wrote: »

Theres an article in move sunday times newspaper ,this week
about co living.Buildings with shared kitchen, common spaces, each tenant
gets 1 bedroom.It says if these are popular with investors .it could push
up prices on house,s and apartments as site values will rise.
These will be the new bedsits .It may be cheaper to build a co op living
space than an apartment block, as 5 plus people will be sharing one large kitchen .
So it will be cheaper to build as there will not be 1 kitchen space for each tenant .

At least two apartment blocks in Dublin were planned to be like this both had there planning denied

Property Market 2019

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