Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

8-10 · 09-07-2019 02:18PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

smacking your own child

Should never be allowed

8-10 · 09-07-2019 02:19PM

corpusvile wrote: »

I don't think offenders like Boy A & B can benefit from any form of counselling or therapy, personally.

Why not? Therapy should be mandatory for people like that, I'd be thinking the complete opposite. Those kids have serious issues. If you just lock them up and ignore them for 15 years what do you think happens when they get out?

Stop moaning ffs · 09-07-2019 02:19PM

8-10 wrote: »

Should never be allowed

‘Spare the Rod? spoil the child’

An older aphorism but kids are t learning consequences for their actions these days. On any level

iamwhoiam · 09-07-2019 02:52PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

‘Spare the Rod? spoil the child’

An older aphorism but kids are t learning consequences for their actions these days. On any level

I have three adult kids with kids of their own . Parenting takes time , input , love , listening and encouraging . We never had any need to slap them but we were in control , we were the parents , we were in charge . If anything is lacking in feral kids its all of the above

8-10 · 09-07-2019 02:58PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

‘Spare the Rod? spoil the child’

An older aphorism but kids are t learning consequences for their actions these days. On any level

If a kid can't learn about consequences for their actions without being smacked by the parent then the parent hasn't been doing it right.

Any competent adult should be able to keep themselves in check. Smacking sounds like the tactic of the lazy parent.

Stop moaning ffs · 09-07-2019 03:01PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have three adult kids with kids of their own . Parenting takes time , input , love , listening and encouraging . We never had any need to slap them but we were in control , we were the parents , we were in charge . If anything is lacking in feral kids its all of the above

Oh i know. And agree with you.
I’d love you to see some of the kids around here. They’re actually frightening sometimes and I try remember there’s probably a situation where the parents either dead or in prison or in the pub and the grandparents are doing the (same terrible) job they did the first time of it is them raising them.
These are the kids you’ve seen mentioned previously here. Feral. Regularly strolling down the street kicking wing Mirrors off cars or if there’s a run of cars parked, bumper to bumper, every now and then run along the tops of them all kicking in wind screens

The younger ones are as young as 12/13.

It’s depressing. I ran and grabbed a hold of one of them a few months back for kicking the wing mirror off my elderly neighbours car. I got the whole gang of them on me screaming and roaring that *they* were going to call the police cos I’m not supposed to be ‘going near him!’

I’ve made the same call to gardai several times and they won’t even turn up. And they’re just two streets away.

Tangent, sorry.

corpusvile · 09-07-2019 06:02PM

8-10 wrote: »

Why not? Therapy should be mandatory for people like that, I'd be thinking the complete opposite. Those kids have serious issues. If you just lock them up and ignore them for 15 years what do you think happens when they get out?

If I thought therapy would help I'd certainly advocate it for them.

However, these aren't normal kids nor is Ana's murder a "standard" crime.
This wasn't a crime of anger or rage or passion or revenge or a fight outside a pub, or something that got outa hand between teens. It isn't a murder that's horrible by its very definition, but for which potential rehabilitation at least might be a viable possibility due to some form of context or circumstance.

There's a disturbing coldness to this. A serious amount of planning seems to have gone into it. Boy B went home after it & did his homework calm as you like & seemed annoyed to be inconvenienced more than anything else when the cops came to his door. There's a moral barrenness here, a distinct, callousness & lack of empathy that's quite chilling actually. In essence it appears to be simply a thrill kill. Murder for kicks.
I personally don't think therapy will do anything for them other than make them more adept & cute about telling the therapist what they think they'll want to hear. If anything therapy will probably make them more seasoned criminals.

I don't think they should be released 15 years later even though they almost certainly will be & probably sooner if Goodwin is anything to go by. I hope they get life simply so they'll be under state control for natural life.

But regardless of their sentence whether it's life or not, I very much doubt therapy will do anything except make them better at hiding their nature and fooling others.

splinter65 · 09-07-2019 06:11PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

If you’re the type of person that buys a child such a vehicle I’m pretty sure you’re going to take serious exception to a Garda physically taking your child off the bike. I’m not even sorry to say it’s a very specific type in our society that do buy their kids these scramblers. We all know this though.

A Garda has to do whatever he has to do to ensure the safety of the public. I couldn’t give a toss what the neglectful twat of a “parent” thinks about the child being seperated from the bike thinks.
When did we start asking family members if it’s ok to arrest their loved one?!?

splinter65 · 09-07-2019 06:25PM

8-10 wrote: »

Why not? Therapy should be mandatory for people like that, I'd be thinking the complete opposite. Those kids have serious issues. If you just lock them up and ignore them for 15 years what do you think happens when they get out?

Point is...boy A in particular not only meticulously planned and committed a depraved sexual assault and ultra violent murder while his friend watched, and then denied that he did, but he’s right now reliving it all night after night after night.
You don’t just walk away from that and forget about it.
You are going to be mentally disturbed for your entire life. Especially as he gets older and matures.
I think he thought he was recreating some scene from a violent porn clip combined with a video game.
I think he had some kind of extended out of body experience brought on by too much exposure to the fantasy world of porn hub and video games.
The picture C Gallagher of the Irish Times paints of him sitting with his head on his mothers shoulder in court holding the hands of both parents is pathetic.
No amount of therapy or counseling is going to rescue him from the horrible demons in his head.
I don’t think he can ever be allowed to be free unsupervised again.
Too much damage has been done.

Stop moaning ffs · 09-07-2019 06:50PM

corpusvile wrote: »

If I thought therapy would help I'd certainly advocate it for them.

However, these aren't normal kids nor is Ana's murder a "standard" crime.
This wasn't a crime of anger or rage or passion or revenge or a fight outside a pub, or something that got outa hand between teens. It isn't a murder that's horrible by its very definition, but for which potential rehabilitation at least might be a viable possibility due to some form of context or circumstance.

There's a disturbing coldness to this. A serious amount of planning seems to have gone into it. Boy B went home after it & did his homework calm as you like & seemed annoyed to be inconvenienced more than anything else when the cops came to his door. There's a moral barrenness here, a distinct, callousness & lack of empathy that's quite chilling actually. In essence it appears to be simply a thrill kill. Murder for kicks.
I personally don't think therapy will do anything for them other than make them more adept & cute about telling the therapist what they think they'll want to hear. If anything therapy will probably make them more seasoned criminals.

I don't think they should be released 15 years later even though they almost certainly will be & probably sooner if Goodwin is anything to go by. I hope they get life simply so they'll be under state control for natural life.

But regardless of their sentence whether it's life or not, I very much doubt therapy will do anything except make them better at hiding their nature and fooling others.

Except personally I do think this or want to believe this was a lose the reason ‘crime of passion’ situation
I’m not convinced A wanted to kill her.
She evidently fought back against his carefully laid plans and it escalated and he became enraged and was fvckin brutal.
But.
That’s all he had to say in interviews with police and he didn’t though. It was meant to be this and it escalated into that.
So it was premeditated murder it seems.

The fact he didn’t respond or engage even trying to save his own skin is utterly chilling.

iamwhoiam · 09-07-2019 07:04PM

Personally I think Boy B is just as evil . We still don’t know the truth as he lied the whole way through every single interview . For all we know he was the puppet master and he manipulated to have his way . We still don’t know what was in his rucksack or if he dumped phones or evidence . He had to cross a fast running Liffey and a park land with lots of green growth . I wouldn’t trust Boy B as far as I could throw him

corpusvile · 09-07-2019 07:36PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Except personally I do think this or want to believe this was a lose the reason ‘crime of passion’ situation
I’m not convinced A wanted to kill her.
She evidently fought back against his carefully laid plans and it escalated and he became enraged and was fvckin brutal.
But.
That’s all he had to say in interviews with police and he didn’t though. It was meant to be this and it escalated into that.
So it was premeditated murder it seems.

The fact he didn’t respond or engage even trying to save his own skin is utterly chilling.

Legally premeditation can occur mere seconds before a crime so this was absolutely premeditated & pre-planned in advance to boot. I think Boy A simply wanted to kill someone & would have done so, had it not been Ana. I suspect boy B egged him on in the weeks leading up to it. As well as being brutal the violence seemed quite calculated actually & again both displayed an alarming nonchalance after committing a murder with such particular viciousness.

Furthermore Boy A came seemingly fully prepared for Ana to put up a fight, hence his knee pads & shin guards. He certainly intended to harm her, this wasn't some very nasty prank but a prank nonetheless that went horribly wrong but again seems to be a coldly pre planned sexually aggravated murder.

I can't see any sense of context here or any "mitigating" circumstances. I really don't like using such words as "evil" as it smacks of simplicity and is emotive. But these two are as close to fitting the definition as they come, for me. All bets are off with such types. I'm personally very pessimistic at best & tbh outright skeptical that there's any hope of rehabilitation for these two. If they never commit another crime again after their eventual release, I still very much doubt they'll feel any actual genuine remorse for what they did & will only ever feel sorry they got caught.

mrjoneill · 10-07-2019 12:59AM

corpusvile wrote: »

Legally premeditation can occur mere seconds before a crime so this was absolutely premeditated & pre-planned in advance to boot. I think Boy A simply wanted to kill someone & would have done so, had it not been Ana. I suspect boy B egged him on in the weeks leading up to it. As well as being brutal the violence seemed quite calculated actually & again both displayed an alarming nonchalance after committing a murder with such particular viciousness.

Furthermore Boy A came seemingly fully prepared for Ana to put up a fight, hence his knee pads & shin guards. He certainly intended to harm her, this wasn't some very nasty prank but a prank nonetheless that went horribly wrong but again seems to be a coldly pre planned sexually aggravated murder.

I can't see any sense of context here or any "mitigating" circumstances. I really don't like using such words as "evil" as it smacks of simplicity and is emotive. But these two are as close to fitting the definition as they come, for me. All bets are off with such types. I'm personally very pessimistic at best & tbh outright skeptical that there's any hope of rehabilitation for these two. If they never commit another crime again after their eventual release, I still very much doubt they'll feel any actual genuine remorse for what they did & will only ever feel sorry they got caught.

I agree 100% it was a planned calculated savage brutal murder which both Boy A & Boy B did together. By Boy B denials and demeaning of Ana he is a twisted devious evil monster. He stayed to see Boy A brutally and savagely commit an evil crime. I can well see Boy B being the instigator of this as he was the one to knock on Ana's door and invite her out of her home to her certain murder. For their rehabilitation I agree with the assessment, they are profoundly evil and there is none. I would not want either of them living near me. While Boy A obv got his thrill out of brutal savagery I do believe Boy B believes he can manipulate to his liking. I also agree their regret was in getting caught. How do you rehabilitate such evil? I keep having to remind myself these were 13yr olds. The older they get, the more aware they will be of "not getting caught". Boy A will prob serve out a 10yr sentence brazing it out without admitting anything or apology for his enormous crime. His propensity for violence with sexual deviancy makes him very difficult to do anything with him. For Boy B he will try to manipulate for an early release, still purveying the view that he was misled into this. The only saving grace for him is he is a weasel, he is not a doer but a manipulator, he gets others to do the doing while he stands back doing the manipulating. I do believe he has a homoerotic interest in Boy A and it was to this purpose he planned the murder to see Boy A engage in a sex act with Ana. I don't see much reforming there either as he wont accept what he did, that is led a naive girl to her certain brutal murder which he probably planned. We cant get our heads around the enormity of the criminality while they have no hangups. Both are without empathy or conscience, its themselves that's important.

Hannibal_Smith · 10-07-2019 06:36AM

Why the hell are scramblers being discussed

Hannibal_Smith · 10-07-2019 06:40AM

mrjoneill wrote: »

I agree 100% it was a planned calculated savage brutal murder which both Boy A & Boy B did together. By Boy B denials and demeaning of Ana he is a twisted devious evil monster. He stayed to see Boy A brutally and savagely commit an evil crime. I can well see Boy B being the instigator of this as he was the one to knock on Ana's door and invite her out of her home to her certain murder. For their rehabilitation I agree with the assessment, they are profoundly evil and there is none. I would not want either of them living near me. While Boy A obv got his thrill out of brutal savagery I do believe Boy B believes he can manipulate to his liking. I also agree their regret was in getting caught. How do you rehabilitate such evil? I keep having to remind myself these were 13yr olds. The older they get, the more aware they will be of "not getting caught". Boy A will prob serve out a 10yr sentence brazing it out without admitting anything or apology for his enormous crime. His propensity for violence with sexual deviancy makes him very difficult to do anything with him. For Boy B he will try to manipulate for an early release, still purveying the view that he was misled into this. The only saving grace for him is he is a weasel, he is not a doer but a manipulator, he gets others to do the doing while he stands back doing the manipulating. I do believe he has a homoerotic interest in Boy A and it was to this purpose he planned the murder to see Boy A engage in a sex act with Ana. I don't see much reforming there either as he wont accept what he did, that is led a naive girl to her certain brutal murder which he probably planned. We cant get our heads around the enormity of the criminality while they have no hangups. Both are without empathy or conscience, its themselves that's important.

Completely agree.

Until boy B tells the truth anout what happened, I will never believe he was 'innocent' on all this.

The two of them have been nothing but self serving.

iamwhoiam · 10-07-2019 07:17AM

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gang-rape-germany-m-lheim-boys-teenage-age-criminality-police-a8997636.html

After a gang rape in Mannheim the Germans are now looking at reducing the age of responsibility .Two of the five were only 12 .

10-07-2019 10:06AM

splinter65 wrote: »

Journalists employed by him, under his direction, answerable to him, went on the radio and broke the law.

There are two separate cases of fining involved, The Irish Daily Mail newspaper and editor for the headline during the trial and Cork's Red FM station and journalist for naming after conviction.

mrjoneill · 10-07-2019 01:52PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Except personally I do think this or want to believe this was a lose the reason ‘crime of passion’ situation
I’m not convinced A wanted to kill her.
She evidently fought back against his carefully laid plans and it escalated and he became enraged and was fvckin brutal.
But.
That’s all he had to say in interviews with police and he didn’t though. It was meant to be this and it escalated into that.
So it was premeditated murder it seems.

The fact he didn’t respond or engage even trying to save his own skin is utterly chilling.

I don't believe it, Ana was led 3km from her home to an isolated building. She was led from leixlip village into Lucan village to lay the blame in Lucan. I believe brutal murder was what was planned in advance with a sexual element. From the blood spatter, Ana received a serious assault when standing. I have stated this previously which is horrendous to comprehend how a naive girl was led into a isolated house by 2 13yr olds. I believe Ana was led by Boy B into the house into a dark room where Boy A was waiting with a weapon and he immediately hit Ana in the head fracturing her eye socket, and this continued on her face and back of the head. It would seem he then flipped her in a judo movement & on the ground again repeatedly beat her with a weapon from the blood spatter. Boy A then engaged in manual strangulation of Ana while "tearing" her clothes from her body. He then proceed to sexually assault with a likely rape. This is of a seriously injured, broken eye socket, deep scalp wounds bleeding profusely suffocated girl. And Boy B watched it all if not obstructed Ana's escape.
These are not humans, these are like wild animals of the jungle. How do you rehabilitate such evil and its compounded by their trial and pre-trial antics. I saw no evidence from these two evil monsters that anything escalated. Boy B stated that he was misled by Boy A, but there was not evidence to support this. Boy B tried his best to deny his own involvement and that of Boy A. I can only see one reason for Boy B trying to protect Boy A that was to protect himself, ie Boy A telling it was Boy B planned. Boy B tries to come across as the gullible loving mammy-boy exploited by the more devious Boy A. But he is far from it, more like a devious twisted evil monster that belies his age.

corpusvile · 10-07-2019 02:57PM

From the blood spatter, Ana received a serious assault when standing.

I believe Ana was led by Boy B into the house into a dark room where Boy A was waiting with a weapon and he immediately hit Ana in the head

These are very pertinent points & it's specifically what I was thinking of when I said that there was a calculated aspect to the violence. It's like they wished to subdue her immediately so that By A could proceed with sexual assault and murder. I'm quite convinced, bard as it were, that both had a murder planned, not solely an assault.

iamwhoiam · 10-07-2019 03:03PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

I don't believe it, Ana was led 3km from her home to an isolated building. She was led from leixlip village into Lucan village to lay the blame in Lucan. I believe brutal murder was what was planned in advance with a sexual element. From the blood spatter, Ana received a serious assault when standing. I have stated this previously which is horrendous to comprehend how a naive girl was led into a isolated house by 2 13yr olds. I believe Ana was led by Boy B into the house into a dark room where Boy A was waiting with a weapon and he immediately hit Ana in the head fracturing her eye socket, and this continued on her face and back of the head. It would seem he then flipped her in a judo movement & on the ground again repeatedly beat her with a weapon from the blood spatter. Boy A then engaged in manual strangulation of Ana while "tearing" her clothes from her body. He then proceed to sexually assault with a likely rape. This is of a seriously injured, broken eye socket, deep scalp wounds bleeding profusely suffocated girl. And Boy B watched it all if not obstructed Ana's escape.
These are not humans, these are like wild animals of the jungle. How do you rehabilitate such evil and its compounded by their trial and pre-trial antics. I saw no evidence from these two evil monsters that anything escalated. Boy B stated that he was misled by Boy A, but there was not evidence to support this. Boy B tried his best to deny his own involvement and that of Boy A. I can only see one reason for Boy B trying to protect Boy A that was to protect himself, ie Boy A telling it was Boy B planned. Boy B tries to come across as the gullible loving mammy-boy exploited by the more devious Boy A. But he is far from it, more like a devious twisted evil monster that belies his age.

I don’t think there is any evidence that says they led her to Laraghchon to lay the blame on Lucan . The house was abandoned and empty and I imagine that was the reason for bringing her to that point .I doubt they were even that cute , well Boy A sure wasn’t as he brought his murder pack home with him

mloc123 · 10-07-2019 03:08PM

when is sentencing expected?

corpusvile · 10-07-2019 03:14PM

Supposed to be on the 15th afaik

Larbre34 · 10-07-2019 03:17PM

mloc123 wrote: »

when is sentencing expected?

Can't come soon enough with the amount of shyte being talked on here - not that the sentencing will stop that mind you.

Lads on here making up their own stories that we heard none of in evidence. Can ye leave the prurient fantasy detailing to your own odd minds please, every word of shyte disrespects the poor girl's memory and dignity.

What you believe or do not believe is irrelevant, the jury heard far more than the rest of us did due to the circumstances of the trial and their verdict is good enough.

Some punctuation wouldn't go amiss either.

10-07-2019 03:26PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Can't come soon enough with the amount of shyte being talked on here - not that the sentencing will stop that mind you.

Lads on here making up their own stories

I personally lost it at the judo move.

Ash.J.Williams · 10-07-2019 03:30PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I personally lost it at the judo move.

Isn't that on the official record?

McCrack · 10-07-2019 03:34PM

There was a suggestion that murderer A had some kind of martial arts training and had flipped her over in the attack

splinter65 · 10-07-2019 03:34PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I personally lost it at the judo move.

That’s how boy b described what he saw boy a do to Ana .

splinter65 · 10-07-2019 03:35PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Can't come soon enough with the amount of shyte being talked on here - not that the sentencing will stop that mind you.

Lads on here making up their own stories that we heard none of in evidence. Can ye leave the prurient fantasy detailing to your own odd minds please, every word of shyte disrespects the poor girl's memory and dignity.

What you believe or do not believe is irrelevant, the jury heard far more than the rest of us did due to the circumstances of the trial and their verdict is good enough.

Some punctuation wouldn't go amiss either.

What did you read here that’s not a matter of record?

leitrim4life · 10-07-2019 03:39PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/gang-rape-germany-m-lheim-boys-teenage-age-criminality-police-a8997636.html

After a gang rape in Mannheim the Germans are now looking at reducing the age of responsibility .Two of the five were only 12 .

Sure wasn't there a gang rape in leixlip a few years ago where they were all juvenile? If memory serves me they all went to same school as Ana and the 2 boyo's. They served no time and one is currently cheered on weekly by crowds at a LoI club.

tuxy · 10-07-2019 03:40PM

splinter65 wrote: »

What did you read here that’s not a matter of record?

I've heard many stories on here about Boy B using a mobile phone to record. And other stories saying Boy B much have attacked her too but had a change of clothes in his back pack so there would be no DNA.
Some people do get enjoyment out of thinking up these scenarios.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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