Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 04-07-2019 06:48PM

tuxy wrote: »

Yes we know that now as there has been a ruling made on the case.
It wasn't a show trial it was legitimate where the accused are innocent until proven guilty.

Wasn’t it reporting from the actual trial? Were the jury not sequestered?

tuxy · 04-07-2019 06:55PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Wasn’t it reporting from the actual trial? Were the jury not sequestered?

At that point boy B was innocent so it's incorrect to make a statement like the paper did.
I know it was a long trial but all the had to do was was wait and then the full details could be reported on.

I've no info on if the jury were fully sequestered.

tuxy · 04-07-2019 07:05PM

They weren't, they were sent home at the weekend and told to avoid media reports. So you can see why the judge found this reporting to be in contempt of court. It would have been a real challenge for the jury to avoid all media reports while at home.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/avoid-media-reports-jury-told-in-ana-kriegel-trial-38221120.html

Suckit · 04-07-2019 07:06PM

I don't think the jury were sequestered. I think I remember reading something about them going home.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I read that at the time.
I'm sure there are 'trial by media' cases that can be pointed to that show examples of why the newspaper was banned from the courtroom. It also effects the readers opinions on the accused. If either boy was found not guilty and the public had read stories with those headlines, it may have caused other issues.

There are plenty of reasons the paper was wrong.

Suckit · 04-07-2019 07:07PM

tuxy wrote: »

They weren't, they were sent home at the weekend and told to avoid media reports. So you can see why the judge found this reporting to be in contempt of court. It would have been a real challenge for the jury to avoid all media reports while at home.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/avoid-media-reports-jury-told-in-ana-kriegel-trial-38221120.html

I was sure I had read it somewhere. Now I know.

SirChenjin · 04-07-2019 07:46PM

There is nothing that could make the horrific murder of Ana Kriegel any worse, or the loss any deeper for her parents, in my opinion. Not to mention what they had to endure just over a year on from her death.

Every time that I glimpsed her beautiful smiling photos on the front of a paper, I thought of her parents and family.

I cannot even begin to imagine the void in their lives, having lost her, and in such horrendous circumstances. This case shocked the nation. For the Kriegels, this is their ongoing nightmare, to never see their child again, her whole future taken from her. They have to try to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives.

Sensational headlines had no place in the reporting, IMO.

8-10 · 04-07-2019 08:12PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Were the jury not sequestered?

Pretty much never happens here

Strazdas · 04-07-2019 09:01PM

SirChenjin wrote: »

There is nothing that could make the horrific murder of Ana Kriegel any worse, or the loss any deeper for her parents, in my opinion. Not to mention what they had to endure just over a year on from her death.

Every time that I glimpsed her beautiful smiling photos on the front of a paper, I thought of her parents and family.

I cannot even begin to imagine the void in their lives, having lost her, and in such horrendous circumstances. This case shocked the nation. For the Kriegels, this is their ongoing nightmare, to never see their child again, her whole future taken from her. They have to try to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives.

Sensational headlines had no place in the reporting, IMO.

Poor Ana was desperately unlucky. Child murder is extremely rare in the Republic, whether by adults or peers.

The chances of this fate befalling her would have been into the millions to one. She should be alive now and living a normal life.

SirChenjin · 04-07-2019 10:27PM

Strazdas wrote: »

Poor Ana was desperately unlucky. Child murder is extremely rare in the Republic, whether by adults or peers.

The chances of this fate befalling her would have been into the millions to one. She should be alive now and living a normal life.

Absolutely agree. I have commented previously on the horrible twist of fate that put Ana in the path of those murderers, just by dint of the fact that they all started in secondary school at the same time. Horrific.

I am aware that the media had to obey certain guidelines and am glad that that the media, in general, were respectful of the child and her family. They stuck to factual reporting and (apart from the paper that was precluded from reporting on the trial) seemed to be conscious that lurid, sensationalist headlines would not serve any purpose.

RIP Ana. I hope that some lessons will be learned, and I hope that her parents and family find continued strength and support.

donkeykong5 · 04-07-2019 10:48PM

Strazdas wrote: »

SirChenjin wrote: »

There is nothing that could make the horrific murder of Ana Kriegel any worse, or the loss any deeper for her parents, in my opinion. Not to mention what they had to endure just over a year on from her death.

Every time that I glimpsed her beautiful smiling photos on the front of a paper, I thought of her parents and family.

I cannot even begin to imagine the void in their lives, having lost her, and in such horrendous circumstances. This case shocked the nation. For the Kriegels, this is their ongoing nightmare, to never see their child again, her whole future taken from her. They have to try to pick up the pieces of their shattered lives.

Sensational headlines had no place in the reporting, IMO.

Poor Ana was desperately unlucky. Child murder is extremely rare in the Republic, whether by adults or peers.

The chances of this fate befalling her would have been into the millions to one. She should be alive now and living a normal life.

She would be if those two weirdos hadn't targeted her.

Road-Hog · 05-07-2019 06:24AM

Is it actually possible for Twitter/facebook/instagram etc to remove all the pictures/name references etc of boy A and B from its servers/hosts.......? Surely once image/text is down loaded or saved to an individuals phone/tablet or lap top then that’s it, it’s there forever......also is it possible for Twitter et al to inform the authorities of devices IP addresses and thus allowing the gardai to be locate a devices owner’s address etc and follow on with a summons and arrest for contempt of court....? If the above is possible then the gardai and courts will be very busy if they follow through in each case

tuxy · 05-07-2019 06:42AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

also is it possible for Twitter et al to inform the authorities of devices IP addresses and thus allowing the gardai to be locate a devices owner’s address etc and follow on with a summons and arrest for contempt of court....? If the above is possible then the gardai and courts will be very busy if they follow through in each case

Yes it would be very easy to pass on IP address, if people had used a VPN then it makes it more challenging but very few people do. You're right though the work load for the Gardi would be too high. The best I think they could do is make an example out of a few people and see if that has the desired effect.

BTW the journalist was fined €2,500 and Red FM €10,000 over the naming of boy A. Very lenient but it wasn't deliberate so that was probably the main factor in the decision on the appropriate punishment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/journalist-and-radio-station-fined-over-naming-ana-kri%C3%A9gel-killer-1.3943023

8-10 · 05-07-2019 07:45AM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Is it actually possible for Twitter/facebook/instagram etc to remove all the pictures/name references etc of boy A and B from its servers/hosts.......?

How do they know which names are referring to one of the boys and which were people referencing somebody else with the same name?

Road-Hog · 05-07-2019 09:39AM

tuxy wrote: »

Yes it would be very easy to pass on IP address, if people had used a VPN then it makes it more challenging but very few people do. You're right though the work load for the Gardi would be too high. The best I think they could do is make an example out of a few people and see if that has the desired effect.

BTW the journalist was fined €2,500 and Red FM €10,000 over the naming of boy A. Very lenient but it wasn't deliberate so that was probably the main factor in the decision on the appropriate punishment.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/journalist-and-radio-station-fined-over-naming-ana-kri%C3%A9gel-killer-1.3943023

What if you were reading Facebook comments or a Twitter feed and you happened to View/read the names..........surely you couldn’t get prosecuted for this....?

corpusvile · 05-07-2019 10:55AM

Twitter were inadvertently contributing to the problem via their algorithms relating to search engines. If an alleged name was put in,
another alleged name would come up in their related searches feature.

ETA: Twitter seems to have rectified the issue now though.

Monumental · 05-07-2019 09:14PM

8-10 wrote: »

How do they know which names are referring to one of the boys and which were people referencing somebody else with the same name?

The names of these two sub humans mean nothing to me at the minute but if and when they are released I think I have a right to know who they are if only to inform family and friends There is no reason to protect them at this stage ,perhaps the state will see them as safe to be released but in my mind they will always be murderers who are capable of reoffending

AMKC · 05-07-2019 10:13PM

I was talking to my neighbour today and she was saying that Boy A's parents are good people and they are devastated there boy could do what he did but Boy B's parents are not very nice people and that his dad is <SNIP> and not a very nice person. Also the guard who arrested them has said it took all his energy not to kill them evil bastards and even then he was struggling to hold back. Another one of the Guards has not gone back on duty after what she seen that day. She has been getting counselling ever since. How she my neighbour knows all this is she is very well connected.

05-07-2019 10:15PM

AMKC wrote: »

and that his dad is <SNIP>

OMG. Better lock him up and throw away the key so.

Assetbacked · 05-07-2019 10:20PM

Omackeral wrote: »

OMG. Better lock him up and throw away the key so.

Apple falls and rots under the free from where it came.

05-07-2019 10:23PM

AMKC wrote: »

I was talking to my neighbour today and she was saying that Boy A's parents are good people and they are devastated there boy could do what he did but Boy B's parents are not very nice people and that his dad is <SNIP> and not a very nice person. Also the guard who arrested them has said it took all his energy not to kill them evil bastards and even then he was struggling to hold back. Another one of the Guards has not gone back on duty after what she seen that day. She has been getting counselling ever since. How she my neighbour knows all this is she is very well connected.

But isn't this implying that their family background has nothing to do with what they did?

sullzz · 05-07-2019 10:30PM

AMKC wrote: »

I was talking to my neighbour today and she was saying that Boy A's parents are good people and they are devastated there boy could do what he did but Boy B's parents are not very nice people and that his dad is <SNIP> and not a very nice person. Also the guard who arrested them has said it took all his energy not to kill them evil bastards and even then he was struggling to hold back. Another one of the Guards has not gone back on duty after what she seen that day. She has been getting counselling ever since. How she my neighbour knows all this is she is very well connected.

So you were gossiping with a nosey neighbour at the shops.

Suckit · 05-07-2019 11:34PM

sullzz wrote: »

So you were gossiping with a nosey neighbour at the shops.

Didn't see anything about the shops mentioned, but a courtcase that had the headlines nationwide and repulsed 99.99% of the entire country, being spoken about :eek:. The nerve of some people.

05-07-2019 11:57PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

What if you were reading Facebook comments or a Twitter feed and you happened to View/read the names..........surely you couldn’t get prosecuted for this....?

Thats like listening to the radio broadcast where the guy accidentally said the name, definitely couldn't be prosecuted

sullzz · 06-07-2019 06:47AM

Suckit wrote: »

Didn't see anything about the shops mentioned, but a courtcase that had the headlines nationwide and repulsed 99.99% of the entire country, being spoken about :eek:. The nerve of some people.

The nerve indeed, unless someone knows the facts about a person, it's rather rude to comment about them on a public forum in a manner like its fact, dont you think?
They heard it from a neighbour!
Why add the fact about boy b dads origin? What has that got to do with anything?
I'm from the same estate as both boy A and boy B I would know both families to see and to say hello to, but not on a personal level, so for that reason I wouldnt make a public comment on them either way.
I would know the Kriégels quite a bit better as my daughter goes to the same dance school that Ana did and we often chatted at shows, they are genuine lovely people and Ana was such a lovely friendly girl who always made time to come say hello, it's so upsetting to think we will never see her at the shows again.
Its heart breaking and scary to think that such a kind beautiful girl could be taken away so easily by 2 evil kids.

RIP Ana.

iamwhoiam · 06-07-2019 08:16AM

My utmost respect goes to the Gardai involved in this case . The were professional and never once took their eye off the ball . It would have only taken one slip or one false move to get it struck out. The fact not one move was contended by lawyers says a lot
Well done to the Gardai , I hope they and the Kriegels are getting all the help they need to cope now

AMKC · 06-07-2019 09:03AM

Omackeral wrote: »

OMG. Better lock him up and throw away the key so.

<SNIP>Although I still have no idea what that Kerry farmer was saying on the news yesterday. But what the neighbours Aunt who lives in the same estate as the parents of the two boys told her was that he was a very nasty person.

Deleted User wrote: »

But isn't this implying that their family background has nothing to do with what they did?

I think Boy A was used by Boy B. I honestly have no idea what there family background was like and if it had on influence on both of them or not.

sullzz wrote: »

So you were gossiping with a nosey neighbour at the shops.

Not anywhere near the shops when I was talking to my neighbour and no they are not nosey just talk to a lot of people. They even know the name of one of the boys maybe the two of them and said one of the names to me but I have forgotten it because its not for me to deal with its for the law of the land now and I am sure we will find out in four years anyway when hopefully if there is any justice they go to serve out the rest of there miserable selfish evil little lives in prison.

sullzz wrote: »

The nerve indeed, unless someone knows the facts about a person, it's rather rude to comment about them on a public forum in a manner like its fact, dont you think?
They heard it from a neighbour!
Why add the fact about boy b dads origin? What has that got to do with anything?
I'm from the same estate as both boy A and boy B I would know both families to see and to say hello to, but not on a personal level, so for that reason I wouldnt make a public comment on them either way.
I would know the Kriégels quite a bit better as my daughter goes to the same dance school that Ana did and we often chatted at shows, they are genuine lovely people and Ana was such a lovely friendly girl who always made time to come say hello, it's so upsetting to think we will never see her at the shows again.
Its heart breaking and scary to think that such a kind beautiful girl could be taken away so easily by 2 evil kids.

RIP Ana.

I certainly did not mean to be rude. I think its absolutely terrible and so sad what happened to that poor girl. I was just saying what my neighbour said. She told me the name of one of the boys too but I have forgotten it as it is for the law to deal with that evil scum now.

dudara · 06-07-2019 09:09AM

@AMKC - I’ve had to snip your posts twice now to remove potentially identifying information. Please do not give any further information that could help identify the boys and their families.

dudara

Suckit · 06-07-2019 11:44AM

sullzz wrote: »

The nerve indeed, unless someone knows the facts about a person, it's rather rude to comment about them on a public forum in a manner like its fact, dont you think?
They heard it from a neighbour!
Why add the fact about boy b dads origin? What has that got to do with anything?
I'm from the same estate as both boy A and boy B I would know both families to see and to say hello to, but not on a personal level, so for that reason I wouldnt make a public comment on them either way.
I would know the Kriégels quite a bit better as my daughter goes to the same dance school that Ana did and we often chatted at shows, they are genuine lovely people and Ana was such a lovely friendly girl who always made time to come say hello, it's so upsetting to think we will never see her at the shows again.
Its heart breaking and scary to think that such a kind beautiful girl could be taken away so easily by 2 evil kids.

RIP Ana.

I don't think being rude is really something the parents need worry about.
I also don't think the parents are to blame. I didn't see any of the identifying information either, so I didn't know what was posted other than somebody is of the opinion that one set of parents are decent and the others are not.
I still don't think it is considered gossiping considering the media attention that this case got, and worse the actual case itself.
I think the two boys may have gotten off lightly, especially if they get out within 10 years. Oberstown is often considered and described as luxurious by people who have been there and worked there.
What they did to Ana was heinous and vile, the lowest of the low. Pure scum conniving to take an innocent, naive girl away from her house and family under the guise of meeting a boy she was attracted to, to sadistically beat her so brutally, to her death and then leave her body there prolonging the parents agony. Then prolonging their agano again for another year with their pathetic plea of 'not guilty'.
So you will have to excuse me if I couldn't care less if the parents or you think that somebody is being rude 'gossiping' about them.
Whether or not you live in the same estate as them or Australia is utterly irrelevant to me.

Larbre34 · 06-07-2019 11:51AM

dudara wrote: »

@AMKC - I’ve had to snip your posts twice now to remove potentially identifying information. Please do not give any further information that could help identify the boys and their families.

dudara

I know you have to do that and I know why you have to do that but every time I read it or I hear about the contempt cases against the media like during the week, I sick up in my mouth a little bit at what supposes to represent natural justice in this State.

Like in sexual abuse cases, Ana's parents as the victims should be able to waive the anonymity of the convicted killers if they wish. This aspect of Children's Act is now repugnant to the wishes of the People and requires legislative review.

If you are old enough to rape and murder someone, you are old enough to stand in the judgement of ALL the People.

Gadgetman496 · 06-07-2019 11:57AM

Not that it makes any real difference, I learned two more bits about A & B I didn't already know. One before the <SNIP> & the other still here.

Just goes to show, no matter how well it's policed the Info still gets to the public domain in the end.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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