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Having a cleaner in

  • 04-07-2019 08:45PM
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭


    Thinking of getting s cleaner in 2 hours a week. How do I stand if something happens her while in the house ?


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I've started doing this already and have been wondering the same thing.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    You should have public liability cover on your house insurance. You should talk to your insurance broker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Would it not be the same as having anyone else in doing work in the house? Plumber, electrician , deliver person etc?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Would it not be the same as having anyone else in doing work in the house? Plumber, electrician , deliver person etc?

    It depends on whether they are a self employed contractor or an employee.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    It depends on whether they are a self employed contractor or an employee.
    How do you make sure they are a self-employed contractor, and not considered an employee?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    How do you make sure they are a self-employed contractor, and not considered an employee?

    They would want to be legit and fully insured themselves oh and tax compliant.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭Payton


    Either you would be required to have public liability or the person you hire would have to carry their own insurance which you should request to see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭adam88


    They would want to be legit and fully insured themselves oh and tax compliant.

    Tbf I don’t think Mary from no.27 is fully legit


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    adam88 wrote: »
    Tbf I don’t think Mary from no.27 is fully legit
    You never said you were just going to pay some woman off the road to clean the house.

    If you just ask about "getting a cleaner in" , I'd assume you meant booking it through a company.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    adam88 wrote: »
    Tbf I don’t think Mary from no.27 is fully legit

    Think about it though, she could make a nice payout for burning herself on the iron or getting bleach in her eye and sue you for it....


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Think about it though, she could make a nice payout for burning herself on the iron or getting bleach in her eye and sue you for it....
    Not if you don't have the right insurance cover, she can't.

    And she'd have to be pretty desperate for money to pour bleach in her eyes on the off-chance that you're insured.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    We used an online service. It describes itself as:

    “X acts as an agent on behalf of the principal (the cleaning provider) “

    Its terms say:

    “X has a Public and Employer's liability insurance. The policy will cover any accidental damages caused by an operator working on behalf of X”

    Does that mean they have insurance that would cover the cleaner getting hurt?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Not necessarily. They may have a policy which covers any loss or injury caused to you by the cleaner, but not any loss or injury caused to the cleaner.

    And of course there's also the possibility that they don't have such a policy at all - they are lying - or, a bit more plausible, that they have a policy now but by the time an accident occurs they no longer have it.

    Of course in those events if you found yourself exposed to liability because they didn't have the insurance cover that they claimed you could sue them for misrepresentation. But they might not be worth suing.

    The only way to know for sure that insurance cover is in place is to effect it yourself, and to maintain it yourself. So ask your broker or your insurer if your household policy covers you for liability to a cleaner or similar who is injured on your premises and, if it doesn't, what extra premium you would have to pay to get that cover.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    How do you make sure they are a self-employed contractor, and not considered an employee?

    You have to have a contract for services, not a contract of service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,350 ✭✭✭NUTLEY BOY


    Most household insurance contracts would provide cover for the public liability risk or the employers' liability risk.
    I say "or" because an accident could fall in to one or other category.
    There are qualifications in the wordings so read the insurance contract carefully.

    Whether a party is an employee or not turns very much on the facts.
    There is no unique legal definition of an employee.
    There are a number of tests for the existence of the master/servant relationship the main one being that of control.
    In context, control means retention of the legal right to direct how the work is done as distinct from the intended end purpose of the contracted work.

    Does it make any difference if there is a master/servant relationship in place ?
    Yes.
    Why ?
    If a master/servant relationship exists a number of additional and specific duties arise within the ambit of that relationship which would not otherwise exist. e.g., a safe place of work, a safe system of work, sufficient and proper plant and appliances and a few more.
    This is why employers' liability claims can be harder to contest on the liability issue because the plaintiff has more targets available to plead :rolleyes:.

    You need to check the contract with the cleaning company to see what you have agreed to.
    Assertions to the effect that contractors are "fully insured" are not always correct and may mean precisely what peregrinus says at post #14 i.e. the contractor's legal interests are protected not yours.

    You need to be careful that you have not - in the small print - agreed to provide any form of indemnity to the contractor in respect of injury to the cleaner.
    Most liability insurance contracts will exclude liabilities incurred under agreement unless a liability would have existed anyhow in tort.

    Generally, if the cleaner is not an employee, OP would still owe a reasonable duty of care to that person.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,242 ✭✭✭Eggs For Dinner


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Not if you don't have the right insurance cover, she can't.

    And she'd have to be pretty desperate for money to pour bleach in her eyes on the off-chance that you're insured.

    The existence or absence of insurance does not have a bearing on whether a person can sue you for injury or damage.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,967 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    The existence or absence of insurance does not have a bearing on whether a person can sue you for injury or damage.

    True.

    But the absence of insurance reduces the chance that someone will bother sueing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 28,401 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    The existence or absence of insurance does not have a bearing on whether a person can sue you for injury or damage.
    I know. But it does have a bearing on their prospects of recovering anything, which is the point I was making.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    I know. But it does have a bearing on their prospects of recovering anything, which is the point I was making.

    If they sue and you are not insured they will get judgement for their damage. If you can afford a cleaner it is most unlikely you have a nil or negative net worth. the judgement creditor can put a judgement mortgage on your house, get an instalment order in the District Court and garnishee monies dueto you. You won'y get credit such as another mortgage, car loan or even a mobile phone account as long as you have an unsatisfied judgement. I wouldn't be blasé about it. People who get in a cleaner would be wise to ensure that there is proper insurance in place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 737 ✭✭✭vargoo


    It was around 2005/2006, lots on this site were beyond cleaning their own sh1te and were all getting cleaners in and then boom they were the cleaners.

    2 in one thread here.

    Wonder will it be deja vu.

    This aswell - https://www.npr.org/2019/06/30/737476633/what-just-happened-also-occurred-before-the-last-7-u-s-recessions-reason-to-worr?utm_source=pocket-newtab


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    I pay a cleaner so we have more time for our kid.
    Providing paying work so you have more time for other things is a good thing for all involved.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    I pay a cleaner so we have more time for our kid.
    Providing paying work so you have more time for other things is a good thing for all involved.

    What happens if the cleaner is injured whilst in your home?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,978 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    We used an online service. It describes itself as:

    “X acts as an agent on behalf of the principal (the cleaning provider) “

    Its terms say:

    “X has a Public and Employer's liability insurance. The policy will cover any accidental damages caused by an operator working on behalf of X”

    Does that mean they have insurance that would cover the cleaner getting hurt?

    Irrelevant, if it happens on your property x’s policy may pay out be it could comeback to you looking for the money.

    E.g I have car insurance but if you cause a crash mine will pay out but ultimately they’ll chase you to cover the pay out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,542 ✭✭✭Dante7


    I'd say most domestic cleaning jobs of a couple of hours a week are cash in hand with no official employment contracts. People earning a few quid like this are unlikely to claim as it would draw attention to their unreported income.

    I have a cleaner who comes in once a week. €25 for two hours and she is brilliant. I'm a single parent and also a full time carer for my terminally ill parent. I don't have the time or energy to stay on top of my own cleaning, and while money is very tight, €25 for my cleaner is the next most important outlay.

    That being said, my cleaner is exceptional and is a family friend who you'd trust 100% in your home and who would never slip and injure herself.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    It need not necessarily be a slip and fall. A domestic applicance could malfunction and cause injury. Something could fall. In any case this discussion is about the lagl consequences for the householder if the cleaner is injured. If someone is injured such that they cannot work for a long time or ever again they will certainly claim. That is so, friend or foe. A householder having a cleaner in is exposing themselves to a risk. This is an insurable risk and sensible householders get proper insurance cover.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    What happens if the cleaner is injured whilst in your home?
    Well that's the point of the thread. The consensus is that public liability insurance is required in case this happens.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Well that's the point of the thread. The consensus is that public liability insurance is required in case this happens.

    You have only said why you have one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,936 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    adam88 wrote: »
    Thinking of getting s cleaner in 2 hours a week. How do I stand if something happens her while in the house ?
    Like, if you drop the hand or something?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    Has there ever been a case where a cleaner sued a householder?


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Has there ever been a case where a cleaner sued a householder?

    It is impossible to know. There are no statistics kept of such incidents. What is well known is that many employess sue their employers.


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