Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 10:50PM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

In a summer that we have been linked with practically every players around, people still talking about Alderweireld is odd, considering the lack of stories coming out about him, especially with a cheap buy out clause.

I would think with all the above taking into account, Toby has told us he is not interested in joining us, and you can't blame him. I think unless a Real or Barcelona come in for him, Toby will stay where he is.

There are no stories linking him anywhere. There are no stories saying he is looking to sit on the contract. There are no stories saying he is about to sign a new contract.

But from all those no stories it should be read as he had rejected us? Why?

Imo the reality is that any club that may look to take Alderweireld this summer simply don't have him s first choice on their list. That United works prefer maguire and will try to sign him. Should that fail, it may be we move for Alderweireld. Same could be true of City. Juve may have had him backup to de Ligt.

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 10:52PM

PARlance wrote: »

It's amazing how these things grow legs. Who exactly are the older unmotivated players who have come for a payday. Sanchez has been sh1t but he has put in the effort... Ibra, RVP, Fellaini, Matic... we hardly have a problem that screams. We don't really have a record of signing older players with no interest, we do have a record of playing players more than most but that's across the board.

I'd add Di Maria and Mkhitaryan to the list of experienced guys who lacked motivation.

Matic was coasting for most of last season.

And when you add in Sanchez, whose performance levels have been shocking, its understandable why some fans can form this opinion.

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 11:00PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

I'd add Di Maria and Mkhitaryan to the list of experienced guys who lacked motivation.

Matic was coasting for most of last season.

And when you add in Sanchez, whose performance levels have been shocking, its understandable why some fans can form this opinion.

Imo Di Maria is the only one you could argue didn't put in the effort.

Not playing well is not the same as slacking off. Sanchez has worked had, just been rubbish. Matic has just lost that needed bit in his legs. Don't know why you would say he doesnt try. Don't get me wrong, I'd want him replaced in the starting line-up, but id not accuse him of downing tools.

Mkhitaryan... Again. Didn't work out, looks like the league isn't fit him, but i don't agree he lacked motivation or effort.

DM_7 · 02-07-2019 11:06PM

The financial investment balance remains weighted towards the forwards. While I don't mind United paying big for a player it does bring extra attention.

Take Pogba, as a player who was not bought to score goals he did not have the protection of scoring a good number of goals to hide any general poor performances. Compare that to Lukaku, who still has people saying United should play him and provide chances as he would score.

I think Maguire would fall on the Pogba side for how difficult it will be for him to show value (or lack of a better term) from his fee.

I think what Bayern did with Lucas Hernandez was the right idea, yes similar money but he has a release clause. This takes pressure away from all parties and removes any idea of an overpayment. If United are willing to pay high fees for a defender I think it would be logical to go for a player with a release clause or have another major transfer to take the spotlight away.

Paying a massive fee to get Maguire from Leicester will always carry the sense of something was wrong there ( United desperate etc). He is immediately under extra scrutiny and pressure beyond just playing for United.

Could swap in Wan Bissaka and Palace into that scenario.

I like what Real did, they made some huge finance deals, including defenders but Hazard will get all the attention and allow the younger guys space and time to settle. I am not sure Maguire would do that for United's young guys. Would need a bigger headline signing in attack.

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 11:09PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Mkhitaryan... Again. Didn't work out, looks like the league isn't fit him, but i don't agree he lacked motivation or effort.

We may have to agree to disagree on that one.

To say the league doesn't fit him isn't the full story imo. And at Arsenal they've had issues too. I've heard Gunners fans complaining even Ozil works harder than him

Not saying that Sanchez doesn't work hard by the way. But when you look at his performance levels, atrocious goal return and huge salary.....it isn't surprising that fans can view this....and use it to question his commitment

02-07-2019 11:12PM

https://twitter.com/utdarena/status/1146059308930461696

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 11:17PM

Zeek12 wrote: »

Not saying that Sanchez doesn't work hard by the way. But when you look at his performance levels, atrocious goal return and huge salary.....it isn't surprising that fans can view this....and use it to question his commitment

And I think that is a lazy analysis.

He's clearly been rubbish, and the reasons for why he is so far off what we have seen him capable of are a mystery.

I don't see a lack of effort in the pitch. Maybe it is all for show, I don't know but I see him looking for the ball. Working to press the opposition. Look to create and drive the team forward. He's just incapable of any of it from an execution point of view. Perplexing. Even if his legs were shot of eject him to be able of playing the ball accurately.

I've heard he's a loner at the club, disliked by players and unhappy. If that is true then it would have a big impact, but again that's not an effort thing (without knowing how he trains)

clubberlang12 · 02-07-2019 11:17PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

There are no stories linking him anywhere. There are no stories saying he is looking to sit on the contract. There are no stories saying he is about to sign a new contract.

But from all those no stories it should be read as he had rejected us? Why?

Imo the reality is that any club that may look to take Alderweireld this summer simply don't have him s first choice on their list. That United works prefer maguire and will try to sign him. Should that fail, it may be we move for Alderweireld. Same could be true of City. Juve may have had him backup to de Ligt.

So you think we haven't contacted him?

Premiership proven defender, which we are desperately after, available for a fee which is fairly minimal in this crazy market and we haven't touched base? Despite the fact that we seemed to be very interested in him 12 last season! Would seem odd to me.
Pre-season about the start and still no concrete movement on a centre back, and still no stories about Toby. Maybe he is content to sit out his final 12 months and get a bumper deal next summer. Maybe the club contacted him and he declined, and thus the usual suspects have been briefed not to mention him so as to make us look like another player rejecting us. I don't , you don't know.....but i find it very weird that bare a mention of us after him, even with United being the biggest click bait team you can run a story about!! Heck he's been mentioned here about a dozen times today alone as a possible target, yet no tabloids even bothering to run with it!!

Mitch Connor · 02-07-2019 11:22PM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

So you think we haven't contacted him?

Premiership proven defender, which we are desperately after, available for a fee which is fairly minimal in this crazy market and we haven't touched base? Despite the fact that we seemed to be very interested in him 12 last season! Would seem odd to me.
Pre-season about the start and still no concrete movement on a centre back, and still no stories about Toby. Maybe he is content to sit out his final 12 months and get a bumper deal next summer. Maybe the club contacted him and he declined, and thus the usual suspects have been briefed not to mention him so as to make us look like another player rejecting us. I don't , you don't know.....but i find it very weird that bare a mention of us after him, even with United being the biggest click bait team you can run a story about!! Heck he's been mentioned here about a dozen times today alone as a possible target, yet no tabloids even bothering to run with it!!

I didn't say we've not contacted him.

We tried for de Ligt.
We bid for maguire today, apparently.

Maybe when those transfers are sorted one way or another we'll move for him.

There was talk we had outlined a deal for munier, in case we couldn't get awb done. Munier would be half the price.

Its just not insane to think Alderweireld isn't our first choice, and that not signing him (at this stage) simply isn't evidence that he has rejected us.

Rayne Wooney · 02-07-2019 11:27PM

The unfortunate reality being Maguire is probably the best we can get this summer, we know it and more importantly Leicester know it.

It looks like we’ll eventually pay the 75-80 million if we’ve already gone as high as 70, it’s the same as AW-B, we’ll stump up the extra to get the deal over the line because the alternatives aren’t lining up and preseason is already here.

Zeek12 · 02-07-2019 11:29PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

And I think that is a lazy analysis.

You may be right.

Personally speaking, its not my analysis. I've criticized him for many things. Not his workrate in fairness which is Ok.

But fans are human after all. They get frustrated. They see his awful performance level, the lack of goals and also the astronomical wages and they draw certain conclusions. Maybe flawed ones.

I do think Sanchez has made too much a meal of running around the pitch like crazy. Often in positions where he doesn't belong. Thats not what he was signed for. There's likely a nagging doubt in his own mind that his best days are gone and he can't produce for United.
And some of this effort is probably for show.

clubberlang12 · 02-07-2019 11:30PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I didn't say we've not contacted him.

We tried for de Ligt.
We bid for maguire today, apparently.

Maybe when those transfers are sorted one way or another we'll move for him.

There was talk we had outlined a deal for munier, in case we couldn't get awb done. Munier would be half the price.

Its just not insane to think Alderweireld isn't our first choice, and that not signing him (at this stage) simply isn't evidence that he has rejected us.

Precisely my point regarding Toby.......Meunier was reported, a number of outlets ran with this. There has been practically no mention of Toby from the usual sources, despite him being what you would imagine to be a viable option. I agree, he may not be first choice and I never insinuated that that may not be the case. My point was, that in a summer of usual crazy rumours, there has been virtually nothing come out linking him to us, especially considering pour previous interest, need for a CB, and his low buy out clause. I just find that particularly odd.

PARlance · 02-07-2019 11:37PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Imo Di Maria is the only one you could argue didn't put in the effort.

Not playing well is not the same as slacking off. Sanchez has worked had, just been rubbish. Matic has just lost that needed bit in his legs. Don't know why you would say he doesnt try. Don't get me wrong, I'd want him replaced in the starting line-up, but id not accuse him of downing tools.

Mkhitaryan... Again. Didn't work out, looks like the league isn't fit him, but i don't agree he lacked motivation or effort.

Agreed, Di Maria was 26/27 when he moved and from Madrid so I wouldn't include him as an old player moving for a payday in the first instance. Mkhitaryan similar, only 30 at the moment so wasn't old moving to us in the first place.

Cotts72 · 02-07-2019 11:57PM

At the end of the day maguire probably isn't the defender most of us wanted but we are at the point whereby we have to sign a CB. He's available, pl and international experience and would improve our defence. I think him and Lindelof would develop very well alongside one another.

Hopefully solskjaer pulls a LVG and signs him and fernandes hours before the preseason plane takes off! One can always.. Hope

IamtheWalrus · 03-07-2019 12:44AM

I wouldn’t be bothered about the fee at all. It’s Monopoly money these days. If he’d improve the team and stay around and progress, it might be a bargain in hindsight. Liverpool and City are paying these sums so we must.

S.M.B. · 03-07-2019 07:53AM

Whatever happened to the Ake links? Or are City outbidding us for him too as well as Maguire.

Bleating Lamb · 03-07-2019 08:03AM

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

I wouldn’t be bothered about the fee at all. It’s Monopoly money these days. If he’d improve the team and stay around and progress, it might be a bargain in hindsight. Liverpool and City are paying these sums so we must.

Agree with this to an extent,there is damn all logic to fees anymore,for all we know this time next season the likes of Maguire,after a decent first season at either Utd or City could be worth 90m plus!

However like a lot of other posters here I think it would be ironic if either City or Utd ended up buying him for more than VVD cost as he is a vastly inferior player.
My biggest concern against Maguire is that he can be turned quite easily.

Jurgen The German · 03-07-2019 08:52AM

How does Maguire stack up against van dyke before he joined lfc? He went for an astronomical fee, was playing at mid level clubs to a decent (that I know of) level but has proven worth the money as he has dramatically improved the entire lfc defense. We are badly lacking leaders at the back, is he (Maguire) the type of player that marshalls the defense cos we are sorely lacking someone like that, much like lfc were.

Father Hernandez · 03-07-2019 09:14AM

Jurgen The German wrote: »

How does Maguire stack up against van dyke before he joined lfc? He went for an astronomical fee, was playing at mid level clubs to a decent (that I know of) level but has proven worth the money as he has dramatically improved the entire lfc defense. We are badly lacking leaders at the back, is he (Maguire) the type of player that marshalls the defense cos we are sorely lacking someone like that, much like lfc were.

I’d be interested to see the stats on this one too, Maguire is approx 6 months older right now than VVD when he moved.

I like Maguire, I think he’d certainly improve the United defense, with DDG & Lindelof there’d be a combined leadership we’ve been lacking for quite some time.

Is he worth £70/75mil? Not a chance and it sets a dangerous precedent much like we have done recently with wages, etc but the markets crazy as it is.

As fans, we care most about performances on the pitch and no doubt he’ll improve our defence

Lucas Hood · 03-07-2019 09:16AM

Jurgen The German wrote: »

How does Maguire stack up against van dyke before he joined lfc? He went for an astronomical fee, was playing at mid level clubs to a decent (that I know of) level but has proven worth the money as he has dramatically improved the entire lfc defense. We are badly lacking leaders at the back, is he (Maguire) the type of player that marshalls the defense cos we are sorely lacking someone like that, much like lfc were.

Someone did some analysis of Maguire, Vvd & Diop.
Maguire didn't fair too well.

https://twitter.com/CFC_Analysis/status/1146088495292829697

yabadabado · 03-07-2019 09:39AM

Is Maguire's lack of pace not a big concern ?

damowill · 03-07-2019 10:06AM

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Someone did anyone analysis of Maguire, Vvd & Diop.
Maguire didn't fair too well.

https://twitter.com/CFC_Analysis/status/1146088495292829697

very interesting stats. No wonder Pep wants him. His offensive stats really stand out, key attributes; passing and bringing the ball out from the back. Which is what Pep wants from his defenders, defending is secondary in his methods. However the big worry for us is his defensive stats, where it looks like he is pretty average. But we also need a CB that can play out from the back and is comfortable on the ball. The modern game requires you to be able to play ball out from the back, especially when you play against high pressing teams. So defenders dont panic, are composed and so they lose the ball in those areas.

v3ttel · 03-07-2019 10:24AM

yabadabado wrote: »

Is Maguire's lack of pace not a big concern ?

He's not coastal erosion/Jamie Carragher slow but that's definitely a concern - especially if Ole wants to press high and there is lots of space to run in behind him.

Honestly think paying £75m for a very good but not great player is just too much. Diop is available for ~£50m, he's 4 years younger, also has PL experience, is comfortable pressing high. He has a great recovery tackle and decent pace when needed. I think he's an ideal partner for Lindelof and they'd complement each other well. Lindelof is good coming out on the ball as the RCB.

I like Maguire as a defender but the fee is just ridiculous.

yabadabado · 03-07-2019 10:27AM

I'd agree on Diop,of all the defenders linked to United I think he makes the most sense if the 50m valuation is true.
Maguire will be an improvement, no doubt but the fee is excessive.

Potential Underachiever · 03-07-2019 10:30AM

v3ttel wrote: »

He's not coastal erosion/Jamie Carragher slow but that's definitely a concern - especially if Ole wants to press high and there is lots of space to run in behind him.

Honestly think paying £75m for a very good but not great player is just too much. Diop is available for ~£50m, he's 4 years younger, also has PL experience, is comfortable pressing high. He has a great recovery tackle and decent pace when needed. I think he's an ideal partner for Lindelof and they'd complement each other well. Lindelof is good coming out on the ball as the RCB.

I like Maguire as a defender but the fee is just ridiculous.

Strange name check for Carra there, I'd never have said he was particularly fast or slow, fairly average I'd imagine. Per Mertersacker is the guy you're looking for to really hammer home your point.

Adamcp898 · 03-07-2019 10:40AM

The big concern with Maguire is when he's facing his own goal. That is obviously less of a concern if you're a team that controls a game through possession because your centre halves play most of the match with the game in front of them. We do not.

Also, I understand the attitude of "it's not my money so what do I care how much he costs" and ordinarily I'd shrug my shoulders, but I'd be fearful that Ed in all his wisdom would spend £90 million on Maguire and then say that's CB done with for a few years now lads, even if it goes terribly.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 03-07-2019 10:53AM

Ake would be a great signing

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2019 11:03AM

Wasn't Maguire deemed to expensive last season and that was off the back of a brilliant world cup for him ,
What has changed that they are willing to fork out this summer

DM_7 · 03-07-2019 11:07AM

Adamcp898 wrote: »

The big concern with Maguire is when he's facing his own goal. That is obviously less of a concern if you're a team that controls a game through possession because your centre halves play most of the match with the game in front of them. We do not.

Also, I understand the attitude of "it's not my money so what do I care how much he costs" and ordinarily I'd shrug my shoulders, but I'd be fearful that Ed in all his wisdom would spend £90 million on Maguire and then say that's CB done with for a few years now lads, even if it goes terribly.

We do not control the ball is not really true.

United don't have a problem when in counter attack mode. In a game v Spurs away for example.

United do control the game, have most of the ball in most games at OT and away to teams like Wolves or Southampton. United often struggle to break teams down so need to improve how they use the ball, this will start at the back with players able to play. Obviously the coaching needs to improve as well but player options are part of it.

Adamcp898 · 03-07-2019 11:17AM

DM_7 wrote: »

We do not control the ball is not really true.

United don't have a problem when in counter attack mode. In a game v Spurs away for example.

United do control the game, have most of the ball in most games at OT and away to teams like Wolves or Southampton. United often struggle to break teams down so need to improve how they use the ball, this will start at the back with players able to play. Obviously the coaching needs to improve as well but player options are part of it.

I guess I should add that it's quite possible to have the majority of possession and not be in control of a game. Just like it's possible to control the flow of a game without the lion's share of possession.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2019/2020

Comments