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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • #4772
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 27,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    There is something missing though. The full truth hasn't been found. Boy B told the truth after he had been caught lying, according to Gardai. There is something not right.

    Maybe he did think his son was innocent, but do you balance that with the Kreigels and how they conducted themselves in court?

    I expect there will be an appeal by Boy B and who knows maybe something may reveal itself there.

    Oh the Kriegels conducted themselves with nothing but dignity throughout and since, considering the vile crime that had been done against their child.

    I suppose some people have a clue in terms of how to behave in a court of law, whether that be to not arrive scratching yourself in a tracksuit bottoms, or to not roar and shout at witnesses/the judge. It wouldn't be the first time this father did something a bit unusual. I really think if the guards were at my door, for any reason, I would want to know what was going on, not head off to bed, no matter how tired I was.


  • #4773
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Maybe he didn't want to impose himself on the situation. Perhaps he thought to himself "ill leave them to it, the missus can fill me in later" (as a matter of fact, there is a report that he spoke to his wife the next day about it). Perhaps the guards advised him to not be part of the discussion for fear of making the boy less inclined to talk. Who knows? The is a myriad of reasons why B's dad would not have been part of the conversation. Remember, there are quotes of the dad telling the son to "tell the truth".


    People are clutching at straws about B's dad's behavior. Everything he has done (that we know of) has been nothing but dignified (other than his outburst, which was perfectly natural). Please remember that this mans life will never be the same again. The only people responsible are boy A and boy B, the state has found they acted with full intent and knowledge that their actions were wrong. Stop blaming B's dad.


  • #4774
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    spurious wrote: »
    Oh the Kriegels conducted themselves with nothing but dignity throughout and since, considering the vile crime that had been done against their child.

    I suppose some people have a clue in terms of how to behave in a court of law, whether that be to not arrive scratching yourself in a tracksuit bottoms, or to not roar and shout at witnesses/the judge. It wouldn't be the first time this father did something a bit unusual. I really think if the guards were at my door, for any reason, I would want to know what was going on, not head off to bed, no matter how tired I was.

    From various things during the investigation and the gardai calling at boy Bs house etc - I got the impression that the mother was the one who decided to with her son. I believe the father may have realised (or told) he was perhaps not the best person to make a good impression. From what happened - it looks like he may have some issues with his temper. The Gardai interviews could have been very different- if the father had accompanied his son imo.


  • #4775
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Maybe he didn't want to impose himself on the situation. Perhaps he thought to himself "ill leave them to it, the missus can fill me in later" (as a matter of fact, there is a report that he spoke to his wife the next day about it). Perhaps the guards advised him to not be part of the discussion for fear of making the boy less inclined to talk. Who knows? The is a myriad of reasons why B's dad would not have been part of the conversation. Remember, there are quotes of the dad telling the son to "tell the truth".


    People are clutching at straws about B's dad's behavior. Everything he has done (that we know of) has been nothing but dignified (other than his outburst, which was perfectly natural). Please remember that this mans life will never be the same again. The only people responsible are boy A and boy B, the state has found they acted with full intent and knowledge that their actions were wrong. Stop blaming B's dad.

    Stop. No. The Kreigels were nothing but dignified. They're the example of dignity that we should be looking for. They never once shouted, despite hearing the awful things said about and done to their daughter.

    A guy was murdered near us last year and there were house to house enquiries. I was in the area before the person was found, so the gardai had questions for me. I brought her in and answered questions. My husband was putting the kids to bed, he came down and made tea for the Garda. I appreciate Ana wasn't found when they knocked at Boy B's house, but I couldn't expect to leave them at the door for an hour. Especially given a kid was missing.

    When we get snippets of information in the media some can get magnified. But you have no more of an idea than anyone else which ones have become more magnified or which are relevant.


  • #4776
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    gozunda wrote: »
    From various things during the investigation and the gardai calling at boy Bs house etc - I got the impression that the mother was the one who decided to with her son. I believe the father may have realised (or told) he was perhaps not the best person to make a good impression. From what happened - it looks like he may have some issues with his temper. The Gardai interviews could have been very different- if the father had accompanied his son imo.


    Well I don't think having an emotional outburst when your son is convicted of murder is necessarily indicative of a short temper but it is very possible that there was some understanding somewhere along the line that perhaps the interviews and discussions were best conducted without the presence of the dad. That doesn't mean the dad had any sort of negative personality or parenting traits but perhaps it is a m.o. of the guards in situations like this.


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  • #4777
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,990 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Maybe he didn't want to impose himself on the situation. Perhaps he thought to himself "ill leave them to it, the missus can fill me in later" (as a matter of fact, there is a report that he spoke to his wife the next day about it). Perhaps the guards advised him to not be part of the discussion for fear of making the boy less inclined to talk. Who knows? The is a myriad of reasons why B's dad would not have been part of the conversation. Remember, there are quotes of the dad telling the son to "tell the truth".


    People are clutching at straws about B's dad's behavior. Everything he has done (that we know of) has been nothing but dignified (other than his outburst, which was perfectly natural). Please remember that this mans life will never be the same again. The only people responsible are boy A and boy B, the state has found they acted with full intent and knowledge that their actions were wrong. Stop blaming B's dad.

    So, nothing but dignified except for the time when he wasn't. Okay.

    (And we don't really know much either way about any other times.)

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #4778
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Well I don't think having an emotional outburst when your son is convicted of murder is necessarily indicative of a short temper but it is very possible that there was some understanding somewhere along the line that perhaps the interviews and discussions were best conducted without the presence of the dad. That doesn't mean the dad had any sort of negative personality or parenting traits but perhaps it is a m.o. of the guards in situations like this.

    Fair enough. But avoiding the Garda and heading to bed, not attending any of the interviews and the final outburst doesnt look great tbh. I would agree that the mother was the person was perhaps best for attending the interviews. Though I reckon there is more to it than that. Just my own conjecture btw.


  • #4779
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    volchitsa wrote: »
    So, nothing but dignified except for the time when he wasn't. Okay.


    No, nothing but dignified without exception. We all lose the run ourselves from time to time, that does not make us lacking in dignity because we are all human and none of us are perfect.
    volchitsa wrote: »
    (And we don't really know much either way about any other times.)


    Nope, none of us do. We could make up any number of scenarios in our head about B's dad or any other sacred cow for that matter, none of it could be claimed to be true without evidence.


  • #4780
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    gozunda wrote: »
    Fair enough. But avoiding the Garda and heading to bed, not attending any of the interviews and the final outburst doesnt look great tbh. I would agree that the mother was the person was perhaps best for attending the interviews. Though I reckon there is more to it than that. Just my own conjecture btw.


    I am not a guard but I'd like to know if B's dad was welcome at the interviews or advised to stay away before I made judgements on his parenting abilities. He has other family who adore him I am sure.


  • #4781
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    Do you know him or something KC?

    It seems like it


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  • #4782
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,990 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    No, nothing but dignified without exception. We all lose the run ourselves from time to time, that does not make us lacking in dignity because we are all human and none of us are perfect.
    There was an exception, so you've already contradicted yourself there.
    We don't know whether there were others.

    Nope, none of us do. We could make up any number of scenarios in our head about B's dad or any other sacred cow for that matter, none of it could be claimed to be true without evidence.

    And yet you asserted as a fact that he wasn't high or drunk. You have no more evidence for that than anyone else has that he was.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #4783
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Just leave him alone, I'm sure the crap being spouted about him is not helping him or his family.


  • #4784
    volchitsa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,990 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Just leave him alone, I'm sure the crap being spouted about him is not helping him or his family.

    Why does respect for this father matter so much to you when you have been utterly disrespectful about Ana Kreigel's father?

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • #4785
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Just leave him alone, I'm sure the crap being spouted about him is not helping him or his family.


    I don't think we're here to try and help him or his family?

    It's to discuss the murder of a 13 year old girl by two 13 year old boys.


  • #4786
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    Hannibal_Smith wrote: »
    I don't think we're here to try and help him or his family?

    It's to discuss the murder of a 13 year old girl by two 13 year old boys.


    You said it, two 13 year old boys. What has it got to do with B's father?


  • #4787
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,692 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You said it, two 13 year old boys. What has it got to do with B's father?

    We're not entirely sure.


  • #4788
    McDermotX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭McDermotX


    Apologizing to murderers now.

    Good grief.


  • #4789
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,409 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    You said it, two 13 year old boys. What has it got to do with B's father?

    So why did you mention Anas father then in a disrespectful manner ? Do your rules not apply to yourself ?


  • #4790
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    McDermotX wrote: »
    Apologizing to murderers now.

    Good grief.


    Wut? Who is apologizing to murderers?


  • #4791
    McDermotX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,376 ✭✭✭✭McDermotX


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    Wut? Who is apologizing to murderers?

    The radio journalist and station up before the beak for reading out Murderer A's name.

    Apologise to the judge for breaking the judge's ruling (fair enough), some might even say say fair enough for apologizing to the murderer's family (though plenty will question they're role in this drawn out case) , but the line is drawn there.


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  • #4792
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    McDermotX wrote: »
    The radio journalist and station up before the beak for reading out Murderer A's name.

    Apologise to the judge for breaking the judge's ruling (fair enough), some might even say say fair enough for apologizing to the murderer's family (though plenty will question they're role in this drawn out case) , but the line is drawn there.


    They are children and in danger of vigilante attack and should not have been named, a complete brain fart by the journalist and they should rightly be apologized to for that reason and that reason alone.


  • #4793
    LiamoSail
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,294 ✭✭✭LiamoSail


    McDermotX wrote: »
    The radio journalist and station up before the beak for reading out Murderer A's name.

    Apologise to the judge for breaking the judge's ruling (fair enough), some might even say say fair enough for apologizing to the murderer's family (though plenty will question they're role in this drawn out case) , but the line is drawn there.

    Maybe he should avoid interacting with the guards, plead not guilty despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, not bother apologising and clap/roar sarcastically when found guilty. Apparently that's the dignified approach


  • #4794
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,547 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Journalist, radio station fined for naming boy in Kriégel case

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0701/1059512-niall-oconnor-court/

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #4795
    Franz Von Peppercorn II
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn II


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    So why did you mention Anas father then in a disrespectful manner ? Do your rules not apply to yourself ?

    Yes, from the very first post he made here when he used quotes for their parental roles he’s been hostile to the Kriégels.

    As if to say they weren’t real mothers and fathers.


  • #4796
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,539 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Journalist, radio station fined for naming boy in Kril case

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0701/1059512-niall-oconnor-court/

    Jesus, €2500 for saying their name accidentally on radio, and it has to be paid within 3 months. That is a costly error. I hope he sets up a gofundme or something.


  • #4797
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Journalist, radio station fined for naming boy in Kriégel case

    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0701/1059512-niall-oconnor-court/

    Can't help but feel that the justice system has become a bit warped in the context of this particular case.


  • #4798
    Kidchameleon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,482 ✭✭✭Kidchameleon


    I have nothing but respect for the Kriegels. If anyone is being disrespectful it is the people wishing incarceration and physical harm on the innocent parents & immediate family of the convicted.


  • #4799
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,284 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Can't help but feel that the justice system has become a bit warped in the context of this particular case.

    The judge ruled that the boys names were not to be revealed. The journalist revealed them, if inadvertently. the judge cant ignore that. if it has been done deliberately it would have bee jail time.


  • #4800
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,409 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Can't help but feel that the justice system has become a bit warped in the context of this particular case.

    In all fairness the journalists were warned on numerous occasions not to name them . I was on the panel for jury service on a rape case . We were told everyday not to name her , we were warned not to discuss the case even at home . This was stressed every single day


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  • #4801
    corpusvile
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31 ✭corpusvile


    Kidchameleon wrote: »
    They are children and in danger of vigilante attack and should not have been named, a complete brain fart by the journalist and they should rightly be apologized to for that reason and that reason alone.

    How are they in danger of vigilante attack when they're in Oberstown? Up to the state now to protect them & any other prisoners within the system from attacks in general & if they are attacked in prison it's no different than any other prisoner being attacked, as I'm quite sure prisons are potentially violent places in general. But both boys are hardly in danger of vigilante attacks when they're in custody.


This discussion has been closed.
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