Brexit discussion thread IX (Please read OP before posting)

Hermy wrote: »

I've read about that before recently - think it came up in a quiz question.
It's really something.

I think we should invade personally

In all seriousness... just what stage in a nation's evolution do you have to be at to have such levels of foresight and social consciousness?

We're not there yet anyway. That's for sure.

lawred2 wrote: »

I think we should invade personally

In all seriousness... just what stage in a nation's evolution do you have to be at to have such levels of foresight and social consciousness?

We're not there yet anyway. That's for sure.

Did a family weekend city break to Oslo a few years ago and was blown away by just how civilised and forward thinking the country is.

They haven't allowed the windfall from oil taxes to turn them into flash Harry's, they've basically taken a very mature view that this is a one time injection of cash which is best used in the long term to support the country they are via better infrastructure, education, social supports and basically better quality of life without losing their existing identity. Everything works (super public transport), crime is very low and their politicians for the most part seem very accessible (they walk and cycle between Govt buildings so you can literally bump into the PM on any given day) plus they genuinely seem to view their role as being the custodians of society and public service rather than an opportunity to line their own pockets.

It's the underlined bit that really separates them from us/Scotland etc but I do think we are slowly moving in that direction.

54&56 wrote: »

It's the underlined bit that really separates them from us/Scotland etc but I do think we are slowly moving in that direction.

Scotland do not get a choice in the matter, Westminster has urinated all the oil revenue up trying to be a global player wall

Someone like Gavin Williamson has been given their orders about how this is to play out. Boris does not have several capacities required to see the long view here, so I wonder who is leading in the smoke-filled room.

It would appear to be a strong 'nothing but the survival of the Tory Party is at stake' play .

Shelga wrote: »

Say there was a time limit on the backstop of 2 years. Is the thinking then that the British would withdraw from it at that point and do whatever they want, while also being midway through a trade deal, so further along in their goals?

So ultimately we would have to erect a border anyway, if there is any divergence from current tariffs and regulations, which is what the UK wants, while paradoxically saying they don’t want a hard border.

When Jacinda Ardern initially announced that New Zealand was now going to measure wellbeing instead of GDP, I thought it sounded like a bit of a gimmick. But, the more I think about it, the more sense it makes- if you can measure accurately. (big if)

The contrast with Liz Truss, who was banging on again last night about never ending growth and expansion, and increasing incomes- it’s just not sustainable. As if the only marker for success is how much money you make and how much money your company brings in. It’s so depressing.

We need to radically re-think how we measure success for a country, with the impact on climate change being by far the number one consideration for all countries. Brexit is such a damaging distraction from what should be focused on right now.

It took seven years to complete a trade deal with Japan, which would be of comparable economic size with the UK, so even in the event of a time-limited backstop, it would need to endure for a decade to cover all eventualities.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Why are they shouting about it? If I were them I'd be hiding it away in a locked drawer. Maybe they haven't read it properly. This polling clearly states:

43% of people have Remain as their preferred option
28% of people have No Deal as their preferred option.

And adding the "softer Brexit" option, 59% favour a solution that keeps the UK at least in the Single Market and Customs Union.

Priceless tweet yesterday morning from Julia Hartley-Brewer in response to Ruth Davidson. Hartley-Brewer is a real Brexit maniac and a prime example of the privileged elite who don't really give a damn about others and just want glorious Brexit at all costs.

https://twitter.com/JuliaHB1/status/1143893495956037632

Her tweets have been increasingly wild and inflammatory.

farmchoice wrote: »

[Johnson] knows and hunt knows that whoever [wins] is going to have to talk the tory party down off the ledge

The problem with this is that the Tory party then gets hammered by Farage in the next General Election.

And if this whole Brexit process has taught us anything, it's that the survival of the party is the most important thing to Tories. Sure even the referendum itself was an attempt to fix a problem in the Tory party.

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

Her tweets are symptomatic of many brexiteers and where they are now. A couple of years ago no one ever dreamt of a hard Brexit, where as now No Deal is all that some will accept.

It's fascinating to see how the narrative has shifted in the last two years. Even May's deal which has numerous red lines is now seen as a 'soft Brexit'.

Part of the reason they've gone to the extremes is that they reckon any deal is too messy and complicated so they think ripping up everything is the simplest and quickest way of getting to Brexit.

This may be slightly obscure, and don't ask me how, but I got down this rabbit hole which ended with me looking at the 'peerage of Ireland' Wikipedia page. It's a horrifying thing really, especially when considering these titles aren't really recognised here, but this for me really underlines the inequality in society - particularly in the U.K - and the awful class divide they have.

Seems a great majority of these Irish 'peers' have managed to pass down their titles for hundreds of years, along with the huge swathes of often gifted land, with large country houses and accompanying shedloads of cash. The children are sent to private schools in England before attending Oxford and Cambridge.

Looking at the current 'Earl of Limerick' as an example.. He attended Eton and Oxford and was a Director of the Deutsche Bank. Following the death of Lord Lyell in 2017, there was then a contest of these aristocrats to select a successor to take Lord Lyell's seat in the House of Lords. The 'Earl of Limerick' stated that he was "passionate about contributing lifetime experience in overseas commerce to make Brexit successful."

I'm not sure who won, but whomever it was, they will influence British law for the rest of their life and claim £300 a day for their trouble. They are completed insulated from society at large and have huge influence in the direction of the UK.

It's no wonder really that the Tories have made such a damn mess of Brexit. They are these people by and large, and the cow tow to them. Just look at Boris - accountable to no one.

The civil servant in charge of No Deal planning in the UK, gets out before it all hits the fan.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/27/brexit-civil-servant-in-charge-of-no-deal-planning-quits

“There is actually a Mr Big of no deal in Whitehall, very clever and very well paid, who was so integral to the process we joked that if he was hit by a No 53 bus on Parliament Square, Brexit wouldn’t happen!”, former Conservative Party MP Stewart Jackson wrote in the Times in an article sources said was a reference to Shinner.

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1144259367233052679

Does this still qualify as "project fear"?

...or do we call this, Project Gear?

There are 1900 employees at that plant. Not to mind the supply jobs that are generated outside the plant. I don't think this is project fear more the dastardly Johnny Foreigners twisting Britain's arm.

kunst nugget wrote: »

Time for Mark Francois to wheel out his 'My father, Reginald Francois, was a D-Day veteran. He never submitted to bullying by any German, and neither will his son.' quote again.

'My father Reginald Francois, helped the French escape the clutches of the Germans, and this is how they repay us. Bloody French!!!!


Oh, my surname, completely coincidental'

The EU Commission closed their Scottish offices today:

https://twitter.com/eucommscotland/status/1144197512372391936?s=21