Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 07:47PM

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

There was a witness who said he saw a Boy, who the police believe to be Boy A walking through the park and limping, I think he said he had blood on his clothes too, but not sure about that. So it appears Boy A was injured before he got home.

But you're right regarding th bullying. I had a talk with my kids as well last week about bullying. I asked if they were being mean to anyone, or if anyone was mean to them and explained what to do if there was. I also told them to look out for kids in their class who are being mean to someone or to look out for kids who are left out constantly and if they see that, to tell me and a teacher. It's up to everyone, I think to look out, not just the ones directly involved.

Regarding the time lines. They say that Mrs Kriegel called Ana's phone about 5.40 and they believed any had already been murdered by then. I think Boy A was seen about 5.50. But did they see Boy B leaving? Is there no CCTV or witness statement showing when he left the park and when? Was there time for them to agree a story then?

Fair play with your kids. We need more of that and often reminding them.

As to these two. It just feels like they had a plan and B broke the trust and thought he was smarter. Knowing full well they couldn’t place him. Again. The white stick.
They didn’t bring weapons.
My guess is it wasn’t an intentional killing. She fought back and A overreacted when she fought back into murder. With a concrete block. Once again. They brought no weapons that they both seem to have been even fond of making.
No forgiveness or explaining away from me so don’t think that.

It’s all so weird and bizarre. This one is going to hang around a long time. Dublin is a big village. I have a cousin with a kid on oberstown. They all know they’re there. They don’t know their names (rightly) and so far don’t interact with them.
So the kids in there know they’re there. It won’t end well and they’re anonymity won’t last long.

threeball · 26-06-2019 08:13PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Fair play with your kids. We need more of that and often reminding them.

As to these two. It just feels like they had a plan and B broke the trust and thought he was smarter. Knowing full well they couldn’t place him. Again. The white stick.
They didn’t bring weapons.
My guess is it wasn’t an intentional killing. She fought back and A overreacted when she fought back into murder. With a concrete block. Once again. They brought no weapons that they both seem to have been even fond of making.
No forgiveness or explaining away from me so don’t think that.

It’s all so weird and bizarre. This one is going to hang around a long time. Dublin is a big village. I have a cousin with a kid on oberstown. They all know they’re there. They don’t know their names (rightly) and so far don’t interact with them.
So the kids in there know they’re there. It won’t end well and they’re anonymity won’t last long.

Ya not intentional at all. They just brought a bag of body armour for the Craic. Walked 3km and happened to come across a stick with nails in it. An innocent mistake.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 08:18PM

threeball wrote: »

Ya not intentional at all. They just brought a bag of body armour for the Craic. Walked 3km and happened to come across a stick with nails in it. An innocent mistake.

No need for the wise cracks. We obviously know they meant harm.
It’s an outlying point that they didn’t make or bring any weapons that we know of. That’s all was contained in my point. It’s of no matter in the end result.
Probably safe to assume they had a bargain to deny everything if caught and it seems they did goihg by As notebook remarks. But B just thought he was clever cos he hadn’t been fingered yet despite numerous interactions with gardai prior to arrest.

threeball · 26-06-2019 08:22PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No need for the wise cracks. We obviously know they meant harm.
It’s an outlying point that they didn’t make or bring any weapons that we know of. That’s all was contained in my point. It’s of no matter in the end result.
Probably safe to assume they had a bargain to deny everything if caught and it seems they did goihg by As notebook remarks. But B just thought he was clever cos he hadn’t been fingered yet despite numerous interactions with gardai prior to arrest.

I think it's safer to assume they meant more than harm rather than any pact they had. They didn't bring her 3km to a derelict house to tickle her.
There was absolute premeditation in every thing they did from the kit, to calling to her house. Half excusing what they did by assuming they were only going to give her a fright is pure fantasy.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 08:28PM

threeball wrote: »

I think it's safer to assume they meant more than harm rather than any pact they had. They didn't bring her 3km to a derelict house to tickle her.
There was absolute premeditation in every thing they did from the kit, to calling to her house. Half excusing what they did by assuming they were only going to give her a fright is pure fantasy.

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.

Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

CollyFlower · 26-06-2019 08:36PM

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

threeball · 26-06-2019 08:39PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.

Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

I'm not sure if he filmed the event although it wouldn't surprise me.
To me that's irrelevant anyway as every action along the way from the constant lies and adapting stories to the evidence at hand, to the physical evidence, to the lack of interest and guidance from both sets of parents is enough for me to know they planned every detail in as far as their tiny 13yr old minds could muster and were so arrogant and thought her so worthless that no one would care or notice.
Thankfully the Gardai did an excellent job and gathered enough together to convict despite the judge refusing the use of some damning facts. The only unfortunate outcome from this case is that these scumbags will most likely walk away in less than 7yrs.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 08:41PM

CollyFlower wrote: »

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

That’s another thing. No phone?
They had no contact after the fact? B didn’t text A to let him know the gardai were at the door earlier?
No. None of it it seems. They planned no contact outside face to face to face.
It’s chilling. So young and so warped.

Every 12 and 13 year old upwards I know has a phone and Snapchat and instagrams and all that.
He had one and it was destroyed soon after the gardai initially called to the house I’d bet. With the footage of the assault on it.

threeball · 26-06-2019 08:43PM

CollyFlower wrote: »

After all they did they just seemed to carry on as normal, for like 10 days, I think it was 10 days after Ana was found that they were charged.

And that is critical. If things get out of hand at 13yrs you dont hold it together for 10days hiding a big mistake. That would haunt you 24hrs a day. One of them would crack. Instead despite interview in high pressure situations they do nothing but refer to her as wierd and slutty.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 08:48PM

threeball wrote: »

And that is critical. If things get out of hand at 13yrs you dont hold it together for 10days hiding a big mistake. That would haunt you 24hrs a day. One of them would crack. Instead despite interview in high pressure situations they do nothing but refer to her as wierd and slutty.

^^^this

And that’s the really frightening part

volchitsa · 26-06-2019 08:49PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s sickening but I agree with you.
I’m of the belief B filmed the whole thing.
Not a popular opinion but here we are. Murder though? Seems more likely it all hit out of hand beyond their planning and A reacted leading to murder.
Calling lie to that is the cold refusal to engage with police on As part and Bs spinning.

Well just never know.

Both seemed coached to a high degree. A especially. B seemed to have ignored it all.

Meaning the interviews.

From what I understand from reading about the case, that is a legal definition of murder. Because the harm was preplanned, and that led to her death, it doesn't matter much that they (perhaps) didn't actually intend to kill her.

Homicide has to be that you didn't intend to harm the person but it got out of hand. No preplanning. That's why if you get in a fight and kill someone it's usually homicide, but if they attack you, and you get away and then go home and get a knife and come back, that's murder. Even if it's only five minutes later. And even if you only wanted to scare them into leaving you alone.

BarryD2 · 26-06-2019 08:54PM

Mad all this Boy A / Boy B stuff.

Ana was the victim and the sad story of her life and death has been all over the print, broadcast and social media - the gory or salacious details generating clicks and print sales.

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

iamwhoiam · 26-06-2019 08:54PM

volchitsa wrote: »

From what I understand from reading about the case, that is a legal definition of murder. Because the harm was preplanned, and that led to her death, it doesn't matter much that they (perhaps) didn't actually intend to kill her.

Homicide has to be that you didn't intend to harm the person but it got out of hand. No preplanning. That's why if you get in a fight and kill someone it's usually homicide, but if they attack you, and you get away and then go home and get a knife and come back, that's murder. Even if it's only five minutes later. And even if you only wanted to scare them into leaving you alone.

I think you mean manslaughter not homicide

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 09:01PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

Mad all this Boy A / Boy B stuff.

Ana was the victim and the sad story of her life and death has been all over the print, broadcast and social media - the gory or salacious details generating clicks and print sales.

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

In case you missed it.
Parents of kids currently in oberstown have made their kids in there aware those lads are there. Those kids already know they’re there. Seems there’s been changes to accommodate them. But they aren’t mixing or allowed near the other kids there. And shifts seems to be working around them to protect them.
I say that’s fair enough. Mob justice is no justice. But something is going to leak at Some point.
Hopefully there’s no little scrote takes it upon themselves to act the hard man.
Let these two rot as long as possible.

Kidchameleon · 26-06-2019 09:04PM

BarryD2 wrote: »

And what of the two little ******s convicted of murdering her? They get anonymity.

Some justice..

This is thanks to rampant mob mentality

Kidchameleon · 26-06-2019 09:06PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

He had one and it was destroyed soon after the gardai initially called to the house I’d bet. With the footage of the assault on it.

Quite possible. But... would the guards have verified he lost two phones when he said he did? They must have checked with the network provider

threeball · 26-06-2019 09:08PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

In case you missed it.
Parents of kids currently in oberstown have made their kids in there aware those lads are there. Those kids already know they’re there. Seems there’s been changes to accommodate them. But they aren’t mixing or allowed near the other kids there. And shifts seems to be working around them to protect them.
I say that’s fair enough. Mob justice is no justice. But something is going to leak at Some point.
Hopefully there’s no little scrote takes it upon themselves to act the hard man.
Let these two rot as long as possible.

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

LiamoSail · 26-06-2019 09:09PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

No blame on any parents. Any of them. Your kid might just well be a handful or a weirdly dark quiet one. It isn’t on you. Only so much any parent can do.

r.

There is only so much a parent can do, however that doesn't mean they're blameless. Some maybe but others certainly aren't. Being a parent is a responsibility and if you neglect that responsibility there should be repercussions.

Boy A was apparently accessing all sorts of illegal and unsuitable horror online. If it transpires that his parents made no effort or attempt to supervise or restrict his online activity then they should have questions to answer and should be held responsible for that neglect of their responsibility to their child.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 09:11PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Quite possible. But... would the guards have verified he lost two phones when he said he did? They must have checked with the network provider

Safe to assume they would have asked for the numbers of both phones. Easily checked with the networks to check when they were last activated as we saw in the Dwyer case it can place you within a few meters.
Could well be he genuinely didn’t have a phone.
I find it hard to believe such a smart kid with an alpha role mindset and a best buddy didn’t have a phone or social media apps.

It stinks.

He filmed it and destroyed the phone after and disposed of it I reckon.

threeball · 26-06-2019 09:14PM

LiamoSail wrote: »

There is only so much a parent can do, however that doesn't mean they're blameless. Some maybe but others certainly aren't. Being a parent is a responsibility and if you neglect that responsibility there should be repercussions.

Boy A was apparently accessing all sorts of illegal and unsuitable horror online. If it transpires that his parents made no effort or attempt to supervise or restrict his online activity then they should have questions to answer and should be held responsible for that neglect of their responsibility to their child.

The fact they supported their kids entering a not guilty plea despite all the evidence tells me all I need to know about the parents in question.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 09:14PM

threeball wrote: »

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

threeball · 26-06-2019 09:18PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

I wouldn't care about the parents for the reasons outlined in my last post. The only justification in my book is if they have siblings. They don't deserve to suffer due to the actions of their scumbag brother.

volchitsa · 26-06-2019 09:23PM

threeball wrote: »

They won't rot long in this country. It's be better for everyone if the scumbags met the end they deserve. I've no doubt they'll reoffend once released. The U.K. are trying to offload Venables to Canada because they couldn't be bothered minding him anymore. Paedophilia is his thing now so ship him off to some poor unsuspecting family to encounter.

Is this true? I thought he was in prison again and that it would be for a good long while, given his past.

Stop moaning ffs · 26-06-2019 09:23PM

threeball wrote: »

I wouldn't care about the parents for the reasons outlined in my last post. The only justification in my book is if they have siblings. They don't deserve to suffer due to the actions of their scumbag brother.

We don’t know that their littles brothers or sisters didn’t suffer. The asshole bully in class is usually the same at home or anywhere he thinks himself bigger or better than those smaller than him or beneath him.

I can see a day way away that one of these families comes out and speaks on it all to own up to not spotting it and retelling what happened. We live in that age now.

LiamoSail · 26-06-2019 09:25PM

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

It’s a lose lose.
Say their names released tomorrow.
Then Look what happens next.
Their families made to suffer mob justice. House gets burned out. Dads can’t work their jobs. Even bigger drag on the state having to protect them and then out of the country relocate two entire families

And In all this Anas parents reminded of it all on the news. Every day. They’d take no satisfaction from that.

Id say their families are getting that anyway. There can't be a soul in the parish who doesn't know who they are.

threeball · 26-06-2019 09:26PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Is this true? I thought he was in prison again and that it would be for a good long while, given his past.

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

tuxy · 26-06-2019 09:29PM

threeball wrote: »

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

I do hope the other countries are not foolish enough to except the relocation. The PM of New Zealand has already said it will be rejected if he makes a request. Astonishing lack of responsibility from the UK.

Hannibal_Smith · 26-06-2019 09:34PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

This is thanks to rampant mob mentality

If this is true surely every defendant would be anonymous??

volchitsa · 26-06-2019 09:37PM

threeball wrote: »

Yes it was in the news the other day. The good ol Brits, won't take responsibility for their terrorists that they exported and now want to ship out their child murdering paedophiles too.

I just looked that up, flips sake, they have some nerve don't they?

However I am relieved to see that both Canada and the NZ PM Jacinda Arden have made it clear that won't be happening.

Federal government dismisses reports that notorious U.K. child killer could be relocated to Canada

Australia was also suggested it seems, so maybe it's time for the old joke about the guy filling in an immigration form for Australia who, when asked if he had any criminal convictions, replied "Is that still necessary?"

CollyFlower · 26-06-2019 09:41PM

tuxy wrote: »

I do hope the other countries are not foolish enough to except the relocation. The PM of New Zealand has already said it will be rejected if he makes a request. Astonishing lack of responsibility from the UK.

Who knows, there may already be this type of agreement between counties... Could be something that's been happening for years.... 'We'll take yours, you take ours'"

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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