Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

25-06-2019 03:11PM

volchitsa wrote: »

No I can't agree here. Why wouldn't they worry about a 14 year old gone missing? Why does it just have to be about them personally?

The guards didn't have to be there to accuse the lad, they were trying to find the girl, and keeping them standing on the doorstep for an hour and not showing any interest in encouraging his son to help if he could seems to say something either about his relationship to his son or to authority, or both.

Personally worry - worry that it's a bit closer to home. Obviously people worry about missing teenagers, just not in relation to their own kids being responsible for them being missing.

I'm obviously in the minority here. I'm not keen on pointing the finger when we don't know all the facts. It looks bad, but it could be innocent and they might well be sitting at home now, with their worlds in tatters around them and they'll almost certainly be blaming themselves too, even if it's not their fault or even close to it.

We just don't know for sure.

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 03:18PM

humberklog wrote: »

Yep. We're all free to assume.

The Gardai were at the door of Boy B because he was the last person seen with her (by Ana's father). This was the first follow up call in the investigation, just over 24hours after she went missing. Boy B' s father knew Ana had gone missing before he got home at 5.

First indication for Boy B parents of Ana missing was Gardai calling to their house after 9pm, 5 hrs after Ana going missing. Gardai were back at his house the following morning at 8.30am and his father told him to tell Gardai everything he knew. It was Boy B mother that accompanied him to the Garda station that afternoon to make a statement. Boy A and his father were in the park that morning and Gardai were just only after been made aware of his involvement and did not recognize either of them. Strange Boy B or his father did not indicate this to the Gardai or Boy A father did not either. I presume it was Boy B parents appraised Boy A father to the why he was in the park that morning as they were aware of Ana being missing. I see a report of both mothers meeting while Ana was missing.

hawkelady · 25-06-2019 03:27PM

Grayson wrote: »

You think those parents raised their kid to lie to them?

They probably thought the same as you. And that's why they believed their kid.

Edit: I'm not saying you are a bad parent. I'm pointing out that they probably weren't bad parents either.

So , as a parent, you’d be happy for your son to say “ no comment “ over and over .. put up no defense whatsoever , and put the victims family through a court case ... for what ? You’re pathetic if that’s what you’d choose to do !!

Me on the other hand , if that was my son ... he’d be talking alright cause he’d know dealing with me would be a worse outcome than 12-14 yes in the slammer !!

I teach my kids to own their actions , even it’s a worse case scenario like luring a girl and murdering her !!! Take responsibility ffs. Boy a and b parents failed in this regard .. on the hope they would get off on a technicality... as I said , it’s pathetic

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 03:38PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When you think of Alexander Pacteau, the psychopath monster who killed Karen Buckley in Glasgow, he came from a well-to-do background, has well-functioning siblings, good schooling etc. It has been said that he was displaying strong antisocial tendencies from a very young age. Indeed, it does appear that an antisocial personality can occasionally come hard-wired from birth and without genetic or other contribution from either parent. It’s possible that some of these rare congenital cases could be caused by something that happened during gestation/conception (eg virus). However that would not be an excuse, there is always the choice to desist from what society and it’s governance tells you is wrong.

He was expelled from his school and it would seem from reports from his classmates at the time he stood out big time. I don't think he exhibited any violent tenancies at that time but rather it was his aloofness and his capacity to shock. It would seem he thrived on the latter. But there was no indications he would turn into a violent monster. Aaron Campbell another Scottish teenage child killer is another case in point. When he was 15 he abducted and savagely and brutally murdered a little 6yr old incl a horrific sex attack. He was an A student with a girl-friend and loads of friends. But what is common with him and Boy A is both were acting out ghoulish characters. Boy B thought that Boy A mask was so cool in questioning and Boy A wore it in the attack on Ana.

splinter65 · 25-06-2019 03:53PM

El_Bee wrote: »

We have non-stop anti-bullying campaigns for decades now, and children are still committing suicide in relation to the bullying they receive, it's no big leap to correlate the continued rise in bullying with the inability to expel or even suspend bullies from schools.

Bullying has always been there and always will. It’s not new at all. And no one was expelled suspended or anything else.
What we have to investigate with urgency is why children and young people are now taking their own lives because of bullying.
They didn’t used to do that at all.

briany · 25-06-2019 03:58PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Bullying has always been there and always will. It’s not new at all. And no one was expelled suspended or anything else.
What we have to investigate with urgency is why children and young people are now taking their own lives because of bullying.
They didn’t used to do that at all.

I can see that discussion going down the route of how thick a skin kids have these days vs. in the old days, to be countered with the assertion that organised bullying via social media is a new thing.

splinter65 · 25-06-2019 04:00PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

He was expelled from his school and it would seem from reports from his classmates at the time he stood out big time. I don't think he exhibited any violent tenancies at that time but rather it was his aloofness and his capacity to shock. It would seem he thrived on the latter. But there was no indications he would turn into a violent monster. Alesha MacPhail another Scottish teenage child killer is another case in point. When he was 15 he abducted and savagely and brutally murdered a little 6yr old incl a horrific sex attack. He was an A student with a girl-friend and loads of friends. But what is common with him and Boy A is both were acting out ghoulish characters. Boy B thought that Boy A mask was so cool in questioning and Boy A wore it in the attack on Ana.

Can you edit this post please because Alesha Mc Phail is the 6 year old victim of Aaron Campbell convicted murderer , not the killer.

RoryMac · 25-06-2019 04:00PM

I found this part of the Irish Times overview of the trial & investigation interesting "As for Boy B, several witnesses gave evidence that he was unusually bright. He excelled at primary school, despite a lack of focus on academics in his home."

Certainly hints all was not good in the Boy B household

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 04:08PM

humberklog wrote: »

No. It's from the father's own testimony. He knew Ana had gone missing before the police arrived and he knew the police arrived to question his son on Ana's disappearance.

I don't think that is correct, what I understand Boy B father only became aware about Ana missing was the call that night to his house by Gardai. He had come home from work and was watching a game on TV when his son came in. He asked his son to join him who was in his room watching cartoons but he refused. It was in the morning he made inquiries and he stated he was amused when he heard from his son it was a boy-girl thing. He stated he did not allocate any sinister motive to it. It was later that day he became aware of the allegation of Boy A being attacked and being injured that he felt the coincidence was suspect. He said he became alarmed when he inquired to the nature of Boy A injuries to find they were mostly bruising to his body and no facial injury. He also state his little boy was singing dumb, all he did do was to arrange the tango in the park. He also claims he phoned home the day Ana's body was found and his wife was in hysterics. He states his first awareness of his son being present in the house that Ana was murdered in was when his wife told him that he had admitted to it, this was on the second day of questing on the first arrest. He also stated he had been alarmed at the arrest and its implications.

splinter65 · 25-06-2019 04:09PM

briany wrote: »

I can see that discussion going down the route of how thick a skin kids have these days vs. in the old days, to be countered with the assertion that organised bullying via social media is a new thing.

Having a 21 year old myself I can tell you for sure that the world is a lot more complicated and unpleasant now then it was 33 years ago when I was 21.
But this is compounded by the fact that there is no doubt that young people in Ireland today have much poorer problem solving skills, and don’t deal as well with either rejection or disappointment as we did.
This is mostly because they’ve had, in comparison, a very privileged childhood, strewn with treats and luxury items, and have little or no experience of the harshness and negativity that was part of our lives throughout school.

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 04:09PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you edit this post please because Alesha Mc Phail is the 6 year old victim of Aaron Campbell convicted murderer , not the killer.

tks uuups

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 04:12PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Can you edit this post please because Alesha Mc Phail is the 6 year old victim of Aaron Campbell convicted murderer , not the killer.

tks done

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 04:30PM

RoryMac wrote: »

I found this part of the Irish Times overview of the trial & investigation interesting "As for Boy B, several witnesses gave evidence that he was unusually bright. He excelled at primary school, despite a lack of focus on academics in his home."

Certainly hints all was not good in the Boy B household

Don't make killers or those who assist killers. Most middle class come from a working class background. One may ask do kids get desensitized with violent games and violent animations. Its really scary the level of violence used by Boy A and Boy B not in any way suffering from its effect. He was normal the following day and up to his arrest until forced to admit bringing Ana to the house and present during her brutal murder. There is no evidence he ever wanted to talk about that event which would have all the symptoms of ptsd. Only concern he had was he was taking the blame. It was the same for Boy A only he though he was not even in the picture.

El_Bee · 25-06-2019 04:36PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Bullying has always been there and always will. It’s not new at all. And no one was expelled suspended or anything else.
What we have to investigate with urgency is why children and young people are now taking their own lives because of bullying.
They didn’t used to do that at all.

They've been doing it since the mid 90's at least, nearly 20 years of useless "programs" and kids are still being left adrift to fend for themselves, if you know any families where a child is being bullied, you'll know the school is absolutely useless no matter how many anti-bullying initiates they roll out.

Road-Hog · 25-06-2019 04:40PM

DrumSteve wrote: »

Now there's a ****er who should have been put down.

And corks most infamous of citizens Mr. graham Dwyer. Came for a totally respectable family by accounts and turned into an absolute abomination of a human........imagine if he had had access to the vile porn etc that boy A had....?

holyhead · 25-06-2019 04:41PM

Horrific to think what that poor girl endured at the hands of those two boys.

volchitsa · 25-06-2019 04:45PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

And corks most infamous of citizens Mr. graham Dwyer. Came for a totally respectable family by accounts and turned into an absolute abomination of a human........imagine if he had had access to the vile porn etc that boy A had....?

It could hardly have made him much worse. If anything, people like that indicate to me that Boy A's obsession with violent porn is a symptom of his abnormality, not its cause.

Kidchameleon · 25-06-2019 04:52PM

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

MonsterCookie · 25-06-2019 04:58PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

Trying to put blame on him in this forum is pretty gross if you ask me.

There could be loads of reasons. Maybe he was just happy that someone had called and wanted to let her get out and make some friends. At least he saw Boy b which was crucial to the early progress made in the investigation.

Road-Hog · 25-06-2019 04:59PM

volchitsa wrote: »

It could hardly have made him much worse. If anything, people like that indicate to me that Boy A's obsession with violent porn is a symptom of his abnormality, not its cause

Does watching excessive amounts of violent porn not de-sensitize your attitude towards it........is it possible to become addicted to porn including violent porn and leave what you see on the screen and never be tempted to act out with a female what you see in the porno....?

splinter65 · 25-06-2019 05:02PM

El_Bee wrote: »

They've been doing it since the mid 90's at least, nearly 20 years of useless "programs" and kids are still being left adrift to fend for themselves, if you know any families where a child is being bullied, you'll know the school is absolutely useless no matter how many anti-bullying initiates they roll out.

I think when the school are asked to deal with a bullying incident/incidents they are then encountering the likes of boy bs father and they shouldn’t have to deal with that.
It’s above their pay grade.
Yes it’s since the 90s. Just around the time that we decided that schools couldn’t discipline our kids at all any more, and that everyone would be a winner and all would get prizes.
I wonder if it’s just a coincidence ?

jimmycrackcorm · 25-06-2019 05:05PM

IvoryTower wrote: »

We should probably stick to the official reports to be honest, otherwise its all just gossip. It might be interesting but it might not be true

I think it's more than gossip that two thirteen year olds who murdered in such a depraved manner were bullies. This was no accidental killing but the hallmark of two people already experienced in being cruel.

tayto lover · 25-06-2019 05:08PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

Still victim blaming I see. Par for the course for you.

FFred · 25-06-2019 05:10PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

Ah the king of edge is back . Remember kids, don’t feed him :pac:

splinter65 · 25-06-2019 05:12PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

We get it Kid. Really, we do. You’ve made yourself perfectly clear.
Boy bs father is your type of parent. Blindly cheerleading his horrible wicked child by not ever attending the Garda questioning with him, leaving his wife to sleep on the floor in the Garda station with the child, and then shouting and roaring abuse at the judge jury Gardai and prosecution when they did THEIR jobs properly.
In this thread you have previously described this behavior as “unconditional love”.
At the same time you’ve denigrated Ana’s parents by putting their titles of mum and dad in inverted commas, because they adopted her, relegating them to second class parents in your eyes.
Now you say Ana is dead, not because boys a and b murdered her, but because her second class dad let her leave this house on a long bright summer evening at 5 o’clock with a boy his son confirmed he knew.
Why don’t you tell us what you really think?

gimli2112 · 25-06-2019 05:19PM

If y'all stay calm, ignore and most importantly don't quote the posts it all fades away into nothing

Kidchameleon · 25-06-2019 05:20PM

She is dead because of what boy A and boy B did to her. I am not blaming anyone else but them. My issue is that many many posters on here are blaming B's father for what happened or are saying he is neglectful somehow. I am trying to highlight how distasteful that is by showing that similar things could be said and argued for about Patric Kriegel. I dont want to go down that road so I would hope people would stop having dig's at B's father. Look, this poor man has suffered a huge loss aswell. His life has been turned upside down, leave him alone.

volchitsa · 25-06-2019 05:21PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

volchitsa wrote: »

It could hardly have made him much worse. If anything, people like that indicate to me that Boy A's obsession with violent porn is a symptom of his abnormality, not its cause

Does watching excessive amounts of violent porn not de-sensitize your attitude towards it........is it possible to become addicted to porn including violent porn and leave what you see on the screen and never be tempted to act out with a female what you see in the porno....?

Well, being female the "you" there doesn't seem to apply to me, first off.
Second, I'm not saying there are no problems with porn being so widely available because I think there are. Though I'd be at least as concerned about many of the women involved, as about the effects on those who use it.

But my point here is that being attracted to violent porn is not the same as watching porn, and I think there's already something wrong with someone who searches out the violent stuff regularly. The fact that people like Graham Dwyer have always existed tends to prove that.

What I do think may be significant here though are the local reports that the boys responsible were already known as being bullies. I think parents and teachers need to look at why this is seen as something they can't or shouldn't really get involved in.

Neyite wrote: »

If unofficial reports are true that they were known bullies prior to Ana's murder then it's probable that parents and teachers had a few chats about them targeting other children. And if you have parents who defend and excuse the little stuff, go in guns blazing to tear strips off a teacher on behalf of their little angels, it's not a stretch to assume those kids get braver and more arrogant that they can get away with more and more daring forms of bullying. Mam and Dad will go tell that principal to fcuk off like all the other times, right?

I'm not saying it specifically happened with these boys, but we can see from the way the parents washed evidence /court outbursts that it's possible.

But they didn't yet have the knowledge and experience that comes with adulthood. They don't have the logical brains of adults yet. So by their 13yo logic, they figure the lies they tell about their actions with Ana would also be believed and even defended by mam and dad - especially in boy B's case . But lying to Gardai is a very different ball game to lying to your parents or your teachers.

FFred · 25-06-2019 05:22PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

She is dead because of what boy A and boy B did to her. I am not blaming anyone else but them. My issue is that many many posters on here are blaming B's father for what happened or are saying he is neglectful somehow. I am trying to highlight how distasteful that is by showing that similar things could be said and argued for about Patric Kriegel. I dont want to go down that road so I would hope people would stop having dig's at B's father. Look, this poor man has suffered a huge loss aswell. His life has been turned upside down, leave him alone.

*Patrick

Suckit · 25-06-2019 05:23PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I assume anyone criticizing the parenting skills of boy B's father for supposedly not caring what was going on when the garda was in his house the night Ana disappeared, will be equally as critical of Patric Kriegel. After all, he let Ana go off with a 13 year old boy whom he did not know & he did not know where they were going. Geraldine on the other hand, knew instantly that she should not have been with that boy. If Geraldine were at home at the time boy B called, Ana would be alive now. Why was Geraldine so much more in tune with Ana's life than Patric?

As if it was even comparable.
Gardaí calling to a house because their 13 year old son was the last person to see her alive
vs
A 13 year old boy calling to a house to bring 14 year old daughter out to the local park and be back in a little while.

Does your being obtuse have a purpose?

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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