Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Ash.J.Williams · 25-06-2019 12:22PM

I reckon B videoed the whole thing...

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 12:35PM

Reati wrote: »

He was 13 and thought he was more clever than the Gardaí interviewing him? Everyone been saying how supposedly smart he was... maybe he believed it.

Absolutely and brazen to go knock on Ana's door and lead her away not caring he would be identified. I'm sure both could have acquired her details and text her to come out Boy A wanted to meet up with her. But Boy B was so cock sure of his smarts and the fact he was a 13 yr old and all he was doing at worst was voyeuristic which not an issue. He even thought he would manipulate Gardai of the worthlessness of Ana, as if she was no great shakes, not a real person and implied they should be taking up so much of their time. He was the future. And to really work the salt into the wound he has no remorse for what they did. His only desire was to go back to life before the murder. There is nothing of the horrific assault on Ana and the aftermath it is having on her family. If any of them had any semblance of humanity they would have instructed their lawyers to apologize on their behaviour, just our client are "so sorry for what happened Ana". Its just him,him,him and Boy A its like its just another milestone.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 25-06-2019 01:08PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

The school was named in earlier newspaper reports and the school web page had an appreciation for Ana. I would not take a genius to work out what school it from the location of the crime.

Yeh. I know the school.

But it cant now be named. So think what that means regarding future debates on bullying even in that school, or investigations into bullying in that school.

Grayson · 25-06-2019 01:18PM

hawkelady wrote: »

As a parent , I make sure the son I raised would tell the truth !!! Those parents didn’t , and as such , they have failed as parents

You think those parents raised their kid to lie to them?

They probably thought the same as you. And that's why they believed their kid.

Edit: I'm not saying you are a bad parent. I'm pointing out that they probably weren't bad parents either.

OwlsZat · 25-06-2019 01:33PM

Yes I would speculate that Boy B photographed or videoed the event.

As for the parents, yes it's quite obvious both sets of parents have failed massively. When I do parent will be installing keyloggers on my children's devices to monitor for a vast array of key words. I don't see how you can effectively parent without this.

iamwhoiam · 25-06-2019 01:37PM

hawkelady wrote: »

As a parent , I make sure the son I raised would tell the truth !!! Those parents didn’t , and as such , they have failed as parents

I am making no excuses whatsoever for anyone but a good parent knows that their kids will be capable of lies . You don’t raise them to lie but just know that they all will at some stage

Strazdas · 25-06-2019 01:51PM

OwlsZat wrote: »

Yes I would speculate that Boy B photographed or videoed the event.

As for the parents, yes it's quite obvious both sets of parents have failed massively. When I do parent will be installing keyloggers on my children's devices to monitor for a vast array of key words. I don't see how you can effectively parent without this.

That would certainly explain his role of being there as a spectator instead of it being a two person attack on Ana.

It was definitely pre-planned and not something that slowly escalated. The pathologist estimated that Ana was attacked as soon as she arrived at the abandoned house.

tuxy · 25-06-2019 01:53PM

OwlsZat wrote: »

Yes I would speculate that Boy B photographed or videoed the event.

As for the parents, yes it's quite obvious both sets of parents have failed massively. When I do parent will be installing keyloggers on my children's devices to monitor for a vast array of key words. I don't see how you can effectively parent without this.

How would this work when the majority of children have a greater knowledge of new technology than their parents?

25-06-2019 02:02PM

hawkelady wrote: »

As a parent , I make sure the son I raised would tell the truth !!! Those parents didn’t , and as such , they have failed as parents

I don't think it's that simple. I think it's easy and comforting to blame the parents because all we have to do then to stop kids being monsters is to be good parents. But some kids are monsters without bad parenting, and that's the scary truth. You can't always mitigate savagery, and reassuring ourselves that it's just a matter of good parenting won't stop outliers like these kids existing.

I don't know if their parents were good or bad, I don't know if they failed. Maybe they weren't great or exceptional parents, just average ones. Maybe the failure was nature, not nurture.

Lots of people have less than optimum parenting, it still doesn't explain why the kids went beyond the usual teenage trouble into the realm of savage rapist and vicious murderer.

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 02:06PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

Yeh. I know the school.

But it cant now be named. So think what that means regarding future debates on bullying even in that school, or investigations into bullying in that school.

For the school its catastrophic, one of its vulnerable students was murdered by two of her male classmates while allegations fly about they did not do enough to protect her. It does seem there was incessant bullying taking place of her. She had no school friends. Why, it appears she was perceived as different and naive. She was subjected an online bullying campaign as well. And there was none of her peers able to stand up and take her under their wing. While I know they all started the same time in school she came to the school with a big warning of her vulnerability from the previous school where a resource teacher took under her wing. Some schools when a new student joins the school another student is appointed a "buddy" to help them settle in.

There is a very big lessons to be learnt from it although the thought that 2 classmates would gang up to murder a classmate and a girl is mind boggling. I do hope the Dep of Education appoint an inspector or an outside one to look at the whole scenario for lessons to be learnt.

humberklog · 25-06-2019 02:06PM

Grayson wrote: »

You think those parents raised their kid to lie to them?

They probably thought the same as you. And that's why they believed their kid.

Edit: I'm not saying you are a bad parent. I'm pointing out that they probably weren't bad parents either.

I posted this previously on this thread and before the identity (and background) of the kids was known and this of course only relates to the father of boy B.

"The gardai came to the door of boy B the day after Ana's disappearance. The father had returned from work at 5 and the Gardai knocked at the door at 8. The mother and boy B talked to the gardai on the doorstep. The father passed them in the hall,at 9 noted his son and wife were still talking to the gards about Ana. He didn't stop to listen and went straight up to bed and went to sleep.
In the morning he had a brief conversation about it with his wife.

Now that is a sign of some pretty sh1tty parenting skills."

Suckit · 25-06-2019 02:07PM

tuxy wrote: »

I read that too but what happened when they tried to recover that backpack?
If nothing was found when it was tested the papers may not bother to report it.

Yeah, I scanned the article and didn't realise that Boy A's backpack was also omitted from the clothes.

The white stick that was in the house, was that used to hit her? Because that is the only thing that Boy B admitted to picking up in the house.
They had said that Boy A's clothes had been washed twice, just wondering if Boy B's clothes had been washed at all?
I hope the two of them get long sentences. Very long.
They both made reference to her having her phone with her and checking it. I wonder did they see her phone and see that her mother was ringing. They definitely must have heard it.

The whole thing is sickening.

25-06-2019 02:18PM

humberklog wrote: »

I posted this previously on this thread and before the identity (and background) of the kids was known and this of course only relates to the father of boy B.

"The gardai came to the door of boy B the day after Ana's disappearance. The father had returned from work at 5 and the Gardai knocked at the door at 8. The mother and boy B talked to the gardai on the doorstep. The father passed them in the hall,at 9 noted his son and wife were still talking to the gards about Ana. He didn't stop to listen and went straight up to bed and went to sleep.
In the morning he had a brief conversation about it with his wife.

Now that is a sign of some pretty sh1tty parenting skills."

Or, the cops came to talk about a missing person from his kids school and he thought nothing of it, or stop and wonder if his 13 year old kid was a murderer. So off he went to bed secure in the knowledge that his kid would tell them everything he knows.

Why would anyone be concerned about the police doing routine enquiries if a kid was missing? It'd be a big leap from there to wondering if his kid killed her.

Suckit · 25-06-2019 02:20PM

Candie wrote: »

Or, the cops came to talk about a missing person from his kids school and he thought nothing of it, or stop and wonder if his 13 year old kid was a murderer. So off he went to bed secure in the knowledge that his kid would tell them everything he knows.

Why would anyone be concerned about the police doing routine enquiries if a kid was missing? It'd be a big leap from there to wondering if his kid killed her.

Not sure where to start with that, but maybe here:
If the Gardaí are stood at your door talking to your son for an hour because he was the last person to see a missing girl, and you ignore it and go up to bed while they are still questioning him, that is 100% shitty parenting.

25-06-2019 02:25PM

Suckit wrote: »

Not sure where to start with that, but maybe here:
If the Gardaí are stood at your door talking to your son for an hour because he was the last person to see a missing girl, and you ignore it and go up to bed while they are still questioning him, that is 100% shitty parenting.

For all he knew they were chatting to his wife. They were on the doorstep, which seems very informal.

I'm not saying it isn't lousy parenting, I don't know either way. It's possible he assumed his wife had it in hand and there was nothing for them to personally worry about.

All the parents are being held responsible here, and they haven't have the formality of a criminal conviction or their side of the story told. They might very well be awful people but they might also be decent enough sorts going through a different kind of hell of their own, there's nothing to be gained by pointing the finger in a direction we haven't a clue is warranted or not.

25-06-2019 02:26PM

Suckit wrote: »

Not sure where to start with that

If the police came to my door with door to door enquiries about a missing person, I wouldn't be personally worried about it, I'd just help them as best I could.

That's what I mean by that, nothing else, as you probably know.

cj maxx · 25-06-2019 02:27PM

hawkelady wrote: »

As a parent , I make sure the son I raised would tell the truth !!! Those parents didn’t , and as such , they have failed as parents

Pure bs . You may teach them but they’ll do their own thing

humberklog · 25-06-2019 02:28PM

Candie wrote: »

Or, the cops came to talk about a missing person from his kids school and he thought nothing of it, or stop and wonder if his 13 year old kid was a murderer. So off he went to bed secure in the knowledge that his kid would tell them everything he knows.

Why would anyone be concerned about the police doing routine enquiries if a kid was missing? It'd be a big leap from there to wondering if his kid killed her.

No. It's from the father's own testimony. He knew Ana had gone missing before the police arrived and he knew the police arrived to question his son on Ana's disappearance.

25-06-2019 02:30PM

humberklog wrote: »

No. It's from the father's own testimony. He knew Ana had gone missing before the police arrived and he knew the police arrived to question his son on Ana's disappearance.

I'd assume they questioned all her classmates etc. I wouldn't assume that my kid was a person of interest, if he was at that point.

Maybe he's a lousy parent, maybe he isn't. We don't know.

Suckit · 25-06-2019 02:33PM

Candie wrote: »

For all he knew they were chatting to his wife. They were on the doorstep, which seems very informal.

I'm not saying it isn't lousy parenting, I don't know either way. It's possible he assumed his wife had it in hand and there was nothing for them to personally worry about.

All the parents are being held responsible here, and they haven't have the formality of a criminal conviction or their side of the story told. They might very well be awful people but they might also be decent enough sorts going through a different kind of hell of their own, there's nothing to be gained by pointing the finger in a direction we haven't a clue is warranted or not.

I'm not holding any of the parents responsible, I think these two posts are the only two that I have even referenced parenting in, but even if he thought his wife had it in hand, why not go out to them and see what it's all about?
If he already knew his son was the last to see her alive, why not invite them in and encourage his son to help them in any way he could?
Going to bed while they are still stood on the doorstep questioning his 13 year old with his wife for over an hour, is at the very least showing how involved in his sons life he is.

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 02:33PM

Strazdas wrote: »

That would certainly explain his role of being there as a spectator instead of it being a two person attack on Ana.

It was definitely pre-planned and not something that slowly escalated. The pathologist estimated that Ana was attacked as soon as she arrived at the abandoned house.

I would imagine the same, Boy B paints a picture of Boy A grappling with Ana as if he was practicing his judo, but the forensics tell differently. As awful as it sounds I would believe Boy B led Anna into the house so she had no escape, into a semi dark room where Boy A was waiting for her with a length of timber and the first Ana knew of it was a blow across her face prob shattering her eye-socket. He then repeatedly beaten her about the head both back and front cutting deep into her scalp. She probable collapsed after that and we know from forensics she was beaten on the ground. We know from Boy B that Boy A straddled her tearing off her clothes and choking her with his hands while sexually assaulting her which prob was the ultimate goal since he was viewing so much porn and had such a collection of it. To think such a monster could be free in his mid-twenties is unbelievable and he could end up your neighbor and mine and not knowing it. Its hard to figure out such savagery. We know from the Bulger murder a 10yr old kicked a baby into the face as his shoe had the baby's blood on it and they repeatedly struck a baby on the head with an iron bar, all it seems with gusto.
And we have in the courts both Boy A and Boy B holding parents hands and hugging as if there was all one big mistake. Its incomprehensible the stark savagery kids can do.

iamwhoiam · 25-06-2019 02:35PM

humberklog wrote: »

I posted this previously on this thread and before the identity (and background) of the kids was known and this of course only relates to the father of boy B.

"The gardai came to the door of boy B the day after Ana's disappearance. The father had returned from work at 5 and the Gardai knocked at the door at 8. The mother and boy B talked to the gardai on the doorstep. The father passed them in the hall,at 9 noted his son and wife were still talking to the gards about Ana. He didn't stop to listen and went straight up to bed and went to sleep.
In the morning he had a brief conversation about it with his wife.

Now that is a sign of some pretty sh1tty parenting skills."

What I find just as strange is to talk to a Garda at the doorstep for an hour and not ask him or her in ? . It wouldn’t not dawn on me not to invite them in and sit down

25-06-2019 02:36PM

Suckit wrote: »

I'm not holding any of the parents responsible, I think these two posts are the only two that I have even referenced parenting in, but even if he thought his wife had it in hand, why not go out to them and see what it's all about?
If he already knew his son was the last to see her alive, why not invite them in and encourage his son to help them in any way he could?
Going to bed while they are still stood on the doorstep questioning his 13 year old with his wife for over an hour, is at the very least showing how involved in his sons life he is.

Or he works shifts and had to be up at 2am.

We don't know, that's the point.

If people are pointing fingers and blaming innocent people who raised their kids with care, and they still turned out to be savages, then they're adding to what must be an agonizing situation for them.

Not even close to what the Kregiels are suffering, or what poor Ana went through, but a hellish enough scenario all the same.

humberklog · 25-06-2019 02:37PM

Candie wrote: »

I'd assume they questioned all her classmates etc. I wouldn't assume that my kid was a person of interest, if he was at that point.

Maybe he's a lousy parent, maybe he isn't. We don't know.

Yep. We're all free to assume.

The Gardai were at the door of Boy B because he was the last person seen with her (by Ana's father). This was the first follow up call in the investigation, just over 24hours after she went missing. Boy B' s father knew Ana had gone missing before he got home at 5.

25-06-2019 02:41PM

Candie wrote: »

I don't think it's that simple. I think it's easy and comforting to blame the parents because all we have to do then to stop kids being monsters is to be good parents. But some kids are monsters without bad parenting, and that's the scary truth. You can't always mitigate savagery, and reassuring ourselves that it's just a matter of good parenting won't stop outliers like these kids existing.

I don't know if their parents were good or bad, I don't know if they failed. Maybe they weren't great or exceptional parents, just average ones. Maybe the failure was nature, not nurture.

Lots of people have less than optimum parenting, it still doesn't explain why the kids went beyond the usual teenage trouble into the realm of savage rapist and vicious murderer.

When you think of Alexander Pacteau, the psychopath monster who killed Karen Buckley in Glasgow, he came from a well-to-do background, has well-functioning siblings, good schooling etc. It has been said that he was displaying strong antisocial tendencies from a very young age. Indeed, it does appear that an antisocial personality can occasionally come hard-wired from birth and without genetic or other contribution from either parent. It’s possible that some of these rare congenital cases could be caused by something that happened during gestation/conception (eg virus). However that would not be an excuse, there is always the choice to desist from what society and it’s governance tells you is wrong.

DrumSteve · 25-06-2019 02:43PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When you think of Alexander Pacteau, the psychopath monster who killed Karen Buckley in Glasgow, he came from a well-to-do background, has well-functioning siblings, good schooling etc. It has been said that he was displaying strong antisocial tendencies from a very young age. Indeed, it does appear that an antisocial personality can occasionally come hard-wired from birth and without genetic or other contribution from either parent. It’s possible that some of these rare congenital cases could be caused by something that happened during gestation/conception (eg virus). However that would not be an excuse, there is always the choice to desist from what society and it’s governance tells you is wrong.

Now there's a ****er who should have been put down.

volchitsa · 25-06-2019 02:58PM

Candie wrote: »

Or he works shifts and had to be up at 2am.

We don't know, that's the point.

If people are pointing fingers and blaming innocent people who raised their kids with care, and they still turned out to be savages, then they're adding to what must be an agonizing situation for them.

Not even close to what the Kregiels are suffering, or what poor Ana went through, but a hellish enough scenario all the same.

He came home from work at five. How likely is it that he'd be straight back to work 9 hours later at 2am?

I mean, sure, maybe there's an innocent explanation for his lack of interest, but on the face of it, as a parent, if your teenage boy is being questioned by the guards about a missing schoolfriend for an hour, it's a little odd not to be sufficiently interested to be present for most of not all of that time.

Apart from the fact that it's wise to be careful with what teens may get up to, you also don't know if he's being made a fall guy for someone else - I don't mean murder, but if she ran away and there were drugs or whatever involved, you'd want to be sure your kid wasn't in the fringes of something and that the more savvy ones might drop him in it.

Really very odd, IMO. Maybe if he'd been less detached from it all at the time, he'd have less reason to roar and shout at the guards when the judgement was handed down.

mrjoneill · 25-06-2019 03:00PM

Candie wrote: »

For all he knew they were chatting to his wife. They were on the doorstep, which seems very informal.

I'm not saying it isn't lousy parenting, I don't know either way. It's possible he assumed his wife had it in hand and there was nothing for them to personally worry about.

All the parents are being held responsible here, and they haven't have the formality of a criminal conviction or their side of the story told. They might very well be awful people but they might also be decent enough sorts going through a different kind of hell of their own, there's nothing to be gained by pointing the finger in a direction we haven't a clue is warranted or not.

For me Gardai calling to my house would be a big issue esp if it involved a missing kid that was last seen with my son. That would set all types of alarm bells ringing that Gardai thought it necessary to come to my home so late at night with an obvious big concern. While I would not be thinking my kid had killed I would be concerned that he was somehow involved in that party going missing. I would seek an explanation to why the Gardai sought him out. We should remember when Ana's mother found Boy B name through Facebook she had no address for him. It would appear she had no parent peer linkages that she could contact to find his address or number so she could drop/call around to see was her kid in Boy B house. Gardai found Boy B address from the pulse sys which may tell another story and this is prob of his father. Boy B nor Boy A had not previously come to Garda notice so it was prob Boy B father was in the system.

TCDStudent1 · 25-06-2019 03:03PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

For me Gardai calling to my house would be a big issue esp if it involved a missing kid that was last seen with my son. That would set all types of alarm bells ringing that Gardai thought it necessary to come to my home so late at night with an obvious big concern. While I would not be thinking my kid had killed I would be concerned that he was somehow involved in that party going missing. I would seek an explanation to why the Gardai sought him out. We should remember when Ana's mother found Boy B name through Facebook she had no address for him. It would appear she had no parent peer linkages that she could contact to find his address or number so she could drop/call around to see was her kid in Boy B house. Gardai found Boy B address from the pulse sys which may tell another story and this is prob of his father. Boy B nor Boy A had not previously come to Garda notice so it was prob Boy B father was in the system.

That's a pretty big assumption. Lots of reasons any of them could be in that system.

volchitsa · 25-06-2019 03:06PM

Candie wrote: »

For all he knew they were chatting to his wife. They were on the doorstep, which seems very informal.

I'm not saying it isn't lousy parenting, I don't know either way. It's possible he assumed his wife had it in hand and there was nothing for them to personally worry about.

All the parents are being held responsible here, and they haven't have the formality of a criminal conviction or their side of the story told. They might very well be awful people but they might also be decent enough sorts going through a different kind of hell of their own, there's nothing to be gained by pointing the finger in a direction we haven't a clue is warranted or not.

No I can't agree here. Why wouldn't they worry about a 14 year old gone missing? Why does it just have to be about them personally?

The guards didn't have to be there to accuse the lad, they were trying to find the girl, and keeping them standing on the doorstep for an hour and not showing any interest in encouraging his son to help if he could seems to say something either about his relationship to his son or to authority, or both.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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