Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

MrFresh · 24-06-2019 04:10PM

dudara wrote: »

That is one thought that went through my head when I read the IT article. If the house was a known teenage haunt, surely it would make sense to go there relatively quickly?

The only argument that I can come up with is that searches are done in a structured way with patterns and grids, so that evidence can be tracked and traced. Therefore they would get to the house when the search got that far.

That, or the house wasn’t really that well known at all.

if you were looking for a small child you would probably start with searches like that. If you're looking for a teenager with no indications of harm you would be more focused on a runaway so bus and train cctv, contacting known friends and family, checking shopping and transport hubs and examining electronic devices would be priority.

You also have to remember that both boys and one of the fathers had given false information to the Gardaí at this stage so there was no reason to believe she was hurt, just upset. I think it was Boy A's father gave them a false lead when he met a Garda in the park that day.

24-06-2019 04:16PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

how would you feel if people joked about Patrick Kreigel?

Do you mean like calling him Ana's ''Dad'' like you did. You're shameless, whether you're on the wind up or not.

24-06-2019 04:18PM

Balagan1 wrote: »

Respect is key and one way to show it is to use the very widely available names of the victim and her family.

The victim's name was Ana, short for Anastasia.
Her father's name is Patric.
Their family name is Kriegel.

He called Mr and Mrs Kriegel her ''mam'' and ''dad'', can't get much more disrespectful than that considering the poor girl was bullied for being an adopted child. Absolutely vile behaviour from this poster.

dudara · 24-06-2019 04:26PM

Omackeral wrote: »

He called Mr and Mrs Kriegel her ''mam'' and ''dad'', can't get much more disrespectful than that considering the poor girl was bullied for being an adopted child. Absolutely vile behaviour from this poster.

And a mod warning was issued to him at the time. Plenty of posters have had their say since. Use Report Post if you want to continue this.

dudara

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 04:26PM

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

You also have to take into account Boy A asking Boy B to bring her there.

Boy A clearly and obviously planned to attack her.

Boy A was clever enough to not be seen to be the one bringing her to the house, so he was surely clever enough not to ask a completely innocent boy to bring her there where he would risk Boy B seeing his attack and then revealing all to his parents right away!

I do wonder if it was a sex attack gone wrong....maybe Boy A completely lost it when Ana hurt him.

And what better way but to have him an accomplice. Boy A prob thought he would get away with it. He has penciled in not leaving fingerprints but not on the forensics of DNA. His clothes were washed and to the naked eye his boots were clean. He had hidden away his killer accessories. He stated when his clothes and DNA were taken that his clothing and Ana's had made contact just to cover fiber transfer. Ana was only missing at that time. If forensics and his injuries could not link him to the scene along with CCTV which he had not penciled in there was only one suspect and that being Boy B. Wonder did he believe Boy B would take all the blame?

24-06-2019 04:55PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Good.
Now Boy B.

Was told Boy A wanted to murder Ana.

* supplied the tape which was found around her neck.
* called for a girl he didn’t like and had little previous dealings with.
* takes Ana 3 km to meet her murderer, could have met outside her home, school or anywhere convenient.
* lies continually about what occurred, 9 changes of story.
* watches the police search for Ana, says nothing.
* knew the final position in the room of Ana’s body despite saying he had left the scene earlier. Very important.
* never, even up to now, has told the truth.
* still continued to sully her name
* and “the look” between both boys when one had deviated from the agreed script. The detectives knew then they were BOTH involved.

Guilty unanimously in the eyes of the jury. Not one member thought he was innocent. Very telling.

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

tuxy · 24-06-2019 04:56PM

MrFresh wrote: »

You also have to remember that both boys and one of the fathers had given false information to the Gardaí at this stage so there was no reason to believe she was hurt, just upset. I think it was Boy A's father gave them a false lead when he met a Garda in the park that day.

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

tuxy · 24-06-2019 04:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

Blood splatter experts figured out Ana was attacked in one room then moved to another afterwards. Boy B claimed to have only seen the start of the attack but when asked where Ana was when he last saw her it was the other room she had been moved to that he described.

MrFresh · 24-06-2019 04:59PM

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

One of the Gardaí was searching the park the day after Ana went missing when he met a man and his son walking through the park. The man suggested he look for Ana near the sewerage plant because kids often hung out there. The Garda later discovered this was Boy A and his dad.

splinter65 · 24-06-2019 05:02PM

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

It’s all in the much linked Conor Gallagher article in the Irish Times. It’s a 74 minute read but every single piece of detail about this tragedy is in it.

gctest50 · 24-06-2019 05:06PM

When they get out they'll just the next Patrick Nevin :

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/patrick-nevin-the-tinder-rapist-and-serial-criminal-1.3935751

"Fearing she would die, she grabbed a brick and began to smash it into the side of his head. Nevin was unphased; he managed to get the brick off her and struck her repeatedly to the back of the head."

tayto lover · 24-06-2019 05:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

He stated to detectives that he watched Boy A attack Ana and knock her to the ground and also that he watched him undress her. He said it happened near the door and he watched from outside. He said he went home then.

Later he drew a map of the room when asked to explain where Ana’s body was in it. He drew it and placed Ana’s body exactly where it was found. It had been moved from where the attack took place.

If he had gone home then he wouldn’t have known where her body was in the room because it had been dragged from it’s original place where he said he saw Boy A attack her into the other area where it was found. It was dragged by Boy A using the blue tape supplied by Boy B to the second spot.
He tripped himself up.

To me that proves he was there all along and knew everything that happened.

The Specialist · 24-06-2019 05:08PM

gctest50 wrote: »

When they get out they'll just the next Patrick Nevin :

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/patrick-nevin-the-tinder-rapist-and-serial-criminal-1.3935751

Patrick Nevin needs to be skinned alive and thrown in a bath of salt to die roaring, much like these 2 *****.

Suckit · 24-06-2019 05:08PM

tuxy wrote: »

This is news to me, not doubting it but could you give more info or point in the right direction on where I could read up on it?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-murder-trial-the-complete-story-1.3929570

Back in Lucan, Dunne and his colleagues continued to comb the area. After walking the park with Boy B the garda decided to search the railway line, but he found nothing. As Dunne was walking back he was stopped by a man and his son. The man had heard about Ana going missing and suggested the garda check the back of the local sewage-treatment plant, as teenagers tended to hang around there.
It was only later that day that Dunne realised this man was Boy A’s father and the teen with him was Boy A.

Also weird that they didn't say anything about the two men.

Kidchameleon · 24-06-2019 05:09PM

MrFresh wrote: »

One of the Gardaí was searching the park the day after Ana went missing when he met a man and his son walking through the park. The man suggested he look for Ana near the sewerage plant because kids often hung out there. The Garda later discovered this was Boy A and his dad.

Do you think boy A had told his dad what he had done at this stage or something? The dad was as clueless as anybody else. A's dad in this instance was obviously trying to be helpful. Its a bit unfair to conflate this to him trying to throw the guards off the scent.

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 05:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

What's the bit about knowing the final position of Ana?

Forensics indicated Ana did not die where her body was found and indicate she was moved from near the door to the back of the room. Boy B was asked to draw a sketch when he was in one of his crying moods after being caught out lying to where Ana's body was last seen by him. This was where her body was found. This indicates he was there for the entirety of her murder. Ana they believe was moved by dragging her by the ligature tape that Boy B provided that was wound around her neck. This ligature did not cause her death and Ana was found with some fingers underneath the ligature. She was also manually choked by a hand being applied

Strazdas · 24-06-2019 05:23PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Forensics indicated Ana did not die where her body was found and indicate she was moved from near the door to the back of the room. Boy B was asked to draw a sketch when he was in one of his crying moods after being caught out lying to where Ana's body was last seen by him. This was where her body was found. This indicates he was there for the entirety of her murder. Ana they believe was moved by dragging her by the ligature tape that Boy B provided that was wound around her neck. This ligature did not cause her death and Ana was found with some fingers underneath the ligature. She was also manually choked by a hand being applied

Plus, B couldn't account for 30 minutes or so after he supposedly fled the scene : there were no sightings of him anywhere else and he didn't return straight home.

He claims he sat down somewhere in the park to 'gather his thoughts' but investigators believed he watched the entire murder and its aftermath and probably spent time with A discussing what to do next : both leaving the abandoned house at the same time in different directions.

mrjoneill · 24-06-2019 05:23PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Do you think boy A had told his dad what he had done at this stage or something? The dad was as clueless as anybody else. A's dad in this instance was obviously trying to be helpful. Its a bit unfair to conflate this to him trying to throw the guards off the scent.

He was being very circumspect, he did not volunteer this is Boy A that was with Boy B. He obv knew his son was implicated in some way the fact they were in the park that morning. Gardai were at Boy B house 8.30 that morning and took him to the park. It was the first they heard of Boy A and were not made aware of the significance at that time. Later in the day both Boy A and Boy B were brought to the park by different Garda units to meet to est facts. It was only at that point Gardai realized of the earlier occurrence. While Gardai were trying to est the facts with both Boy A and Boy B, Boy A was constantly whinging about the assault on him while Gardai told him they would deal with him in turn but their priorities was Ana that was missing.

Hannibal_Smith · 24-06-2019 05:30PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

He said she dressed slutty, hardly “i want her dead” material.

This 3km from the house business is a nonsense, that park would be a very common spot for youths to hang out there from Ana’s estate. It would be quire common for people to walk close by that building as its on a popular walking route. People acting like they brought her to some far off no mans land that nobody ever visits.

The kid has definitely through his own intention or as a patsy become embroiled in this , but what helps nobody is this rampant speculation about perfectly normal things 13 year old boys do like hang out in parks , like masks , lend people tape and say not so nice things about how teenage girls dress as definitive murderous traits.

I 100% bet you wouldnt find a 13-14 year old lad in the land who hasnt called somebody a weirdo/loner or commented on the way a girl dresses and hasn’t been interested in hanging out with some lad who has brought a samurai sword or some other weapon back from moore street / holidays. Lets not start pretending that every 13 year old boy doing 13 year old boy things is suddenly 80% of the way to being a murderer

And yet a 13 year old girl was murdered. So there was nothing normal about it.

Saying she dressed slutty, wouldnt be a complimentary thing to say in my opinion. Maybe it's a normal description for you to use for girls you like, but it wouldn't be something I've heard my friends say about some one they're friendly with (or at all tbh). So to lead a girl you didn't like 3km from her home to a boy who said to you they'd like to kill her, may seem innocent to you, but to conclude he had an idea that the meeting was going to be unsavoury is not nonsense. It was a quiet enough place for boy a to murder her and leave her there until she was found 3 days later. Why wasn't it the first place gardai looked if it's such a nonsense no deal place to bring her?

I have not engaged in rampant speculation about normal teenage behaviour. I have challenged the unusual behaviour of a 13 year old boy bringing a girl he didn't like to an abandoned house to a boy who didn't like her. The fact that it is unusual is evidenced by the fact that the girl is now dead.

tuxy · 24-06-2019 05:37PM

Suckit wrote: »

Also weird that they didn't say anything about the two men.

That bit is not too weird as I imagine the only reason his dad was looking for the men was to attack them and get revenge.

Suckit · 24-06-2019 05:55PM

tuxy wrote: »

That bit is not too weird as I imagine the only reason his dad was looking for the men was to attack them and get revenge.

When the Gardaí are looking for a missing girl in a park, and Boy A has told his father that two men attacked him in the same park, it is very weird that they didn't mention that.

Kidchameleon · 24-06-2019 05:59PM

Suckit wrote: »

When the Gardaí are looking for a missing girl in a park, and Boy A has told his father that two men attacked him in the same park, it is very weird that they didn't mention that.

Maybe they did, none of us were there at the time.

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 06:04PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

I would imagine it increases a teenager "street cred" to have someone infatuated by them. Ana was a very attractive girl as testified by those older boys who propositioned her for sex. Ana was not killed because she got infatuated with someone that could not handle the "embarrassment". Boy A could have told her at any time he wasn't interested. As for Boy B he could have passed on his friends wishes any time, he did not have to bring her 3km to an isolated abandoned house to do it. He knew full well Boy A attitude towards her so an innocent explanation just doesn't run. Thinking back to when I was 13 it definitely was never in my mind to inflict or standby while such an appalling category of injuries was caused to someone as listed in the autopsy
https://www.thejournal.ie/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-day-8-4626078-May2019/

And both Boy A and Boy B continued to function without a problem only the blame that was being placed on them after it. Both are very sick teenagers.

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

iamwhoiam · 24-06-2019 06:10PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

Ana was a vulnerable girl who craved friends so it makes perfect sense that she would be pleased to go with a lad she knew to see . Her dad Patric said she looked happy to go . The poor pet probably felt pleased
Her address would be very easy to find out from others who live in her area . Local kids are well aware who lives where and who lives beside who

Hannibal_Smith · 24-06-2019 06:13PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

Yet as soon as the mother heard, alarm bells went off and she went out to look for her.

Suckit · 24-06-2019 06:14PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Maybe they did, none of us were there at the time.

Later that day, Gda Dunne decided to search along the railway line in Leixlip before returning to the park where Ana was last seen. He said in the park, at 3.14pm, he passed an adult male and a boy. The adult stopped him, said he was a local and suggested he check a near-by sewage plant for Ana because young people liked to hang out there.
Half an hour later, as part of his investigation, he went to the home of Boy A. His father answered the door and Sgt Dunne realised this was the man who told him about the sewage plant and that the boy with him was Boy A.
Boy A and his father accompanied Sgt Dunne and Boy B back to the park because the garda wanted to ask follow-up questions on the route they took.
Sgt Dunne said both Boy A and Boy B walked ahead of the adults. He said the route Boy B showed him was different in places to the one they walked earlier

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Just to be very clear, I am not , nor have ever suggested this nor have I ever or will ever speculate on the motive. I have no idea why Boy A did it and until he pipes up out of guilt (if ever) nobody else will either.

Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around. I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this, but it just doesn't make sense if he held the 'hatred' towards her that many have claimed.

So now you think he may have been friends with her?
Secretly?
Have you read much of the court case?

Eric Cartman · 24-06-2019 06:21PM

Suckit wrote: »

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.

So now you think he may have been friends with her?
Secretly?
Have you read much of the court case?

"maybe boy B didn't hate her and hadn't 'never spoken to her'" = im saying they were both friends with her in secret, see this is the problem with this website , any over reaction possible and theres somebody to over react

Kidchameleon · 24-06-2019 06:21PM

Suckit wrote: »

Surely the relevant part would have been that two men beat up his son earlier, not that 'young people like to hang out at the sewage plant'.
I'd imagine that the Garda would have followed up on that before going to the plant.

I don't know either way but there is no blow by blow account of the conversion in the park so it is pure speculation to suggest that the attack by the two men was not mentioned. I may have been and it may not have been.

Suckit · 24-06-2019 06:30PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

"maybe boy B didn't hate her and hadn't 'never spoken to her'" = im saying they were both friends with her in secret, see this is the problem with this website , any over reaction possible and theres somebody to over react

You said "Many here have suggested that boy B was not friends with ana, that they never hung around."
and
"I find it strange that he knew her address and she would voluntarily go with him were this that case. Theres nothing in evidence that ive seen about this"
I am not overreacting, I am literally quoting you and asking if yout hink they were friends, and if you've read much of the courtcase. It really, really seems like you haven't.

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I don't know either way but there is no blow by blow account of the conversion in the park so it is pure speculation to suggest that the attack by the two men was not mentioned. I may have been and it may not have been.

If it was mentioned, surely that would have been a massive bit of information to the Garda and could have saved him the journey of calling to the house a half an hour later.

Strazdas · 24-06-2019 06:31PM

I'm convinced there must have been a conversation and collusion between A and B after the murder. How could B know what would happen next if he supposedly fled the scene?. A could tell Gardai for example "I watched B kill Ana Kriegel". Everything about his behaviour for the next few days suggests collusion and they discussing how to cover up the murder.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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