Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 23-06-2019 02:43PM

briany wrote: »

Not in the literal sense, no, but maybe one or both of them could be repeatedly deemed unfit to reenter society as their case is reviewed down the line.

Yes. There are mechanisms in Irish law for that. I wonder though if the psychologist reports will see them as having psychopathic traits.

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 23-06-2019 02:48PM

Does the reporting restriction stop the school itself talking about the case ie if they have an anti bullying program can they mention Anna or the perpetrators. I assume no.

Asd1234 · 23-06-2019 02:48PM

<snip>

Mod:

the thread title is pretty clear - [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Don't make requests of that nature again.

23-06-2019 02:51PM

I support the death penalty for cases like this.

Road-Hog · 23-06-2019 02:59PM

Have ana’s Parents asked for the death penalty for the boys/scrotes....!

Or rather what is their view in the death penalty would they like to see the boys hung drawn and quartered...?

Franz Von Peppercorn II · 23-06-2019 02:59PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Have ana’s Parents asked for the death penalty for the boys/scrotes....!

How could they. We don’t have it. Even if we did I don’t think they would support it.

dudara · 23-06-2019 03:03PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Have ana’s Parents asked for the death penalty for the boys/scrotes....!

We don’t have the death penalty in this country. Therefore, it cannot be requested.

Much as I find the crime abhorrent, I also find the idea of the State taking a life to be abhorrent. It leaves us with only two paths for these youngsters. Lock them up for life, with no possibility of release or undertake rehabilitation efforts in the (vain) hope that they can be released back into society. Neither of these are palatable but they are the choices we have.

Suckit · 23-06-2019 03:03PM

pablo128 wrote: »

No.

But I personally wouldn't be complaining if another inmate took it upon himself to dish out a severe beating or even worse.

And realistically the only thing that could prevent it is every prisoner in Oberstown on 24 hour lockup, which isn't going to happen.

https://www.oberstown.com/campus-stats/

During May, there were 53 individual young people present on the Oberstown Children Detention Campus.*

During May, 29 young people served remand orders and 25 young people served committal orders.

Of all the young people on campus during May, 51 were male and 2 were female

Regarding those on committal: 1 was aged 15; 10 were aged 16; 11 were aged 17, and 3 were aged 18.

Of those on remand: 1 was aged 14; 5 were aged 15, 7 were aged 16, 15 were aged 17 and 1 was aged 18.

It will definitely be a shock to them.

I don't know about the background of these boys families, but assuming they came from fairly decent families, they will get some surprise when they realise they have to stay there for the forseeable future.

MrFresh · 23-06-2019 03:05PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I support the death penalty for cases like this.

Would you do the deed yourself?

Ash.J.Williams · 23-06-2019 03:09PM

Road-Hog wrote: »

Have ana’s Parents asked for the death penalty for the boys/scrotes....!

Or rather what is their view in the death penalty would they like to see the boys hung drawn and quartered...?

Firstly we don't have the death penalty and secondly they are educated.

Ash.J.Williams · 23-06-2019 03:16PM

gozunda wrote: »

I get the sense that the boys really thought their lies would be believed - that Ana was abducted / attacked in the park. Now maybe it is the case that both teenagers were used to getting away with telling lies to their parents and being believed and this set them up to think others would do the same.

What they didn't take into account that their victim would fight back and inflict injuries on one of the two boys and that the Gardai and others would see through the bull****e they had connected by way of an explanation as to what happened..

It's unfortunate that despite the evidence and testimony gathered by the gardai and the deliberations of the court - at least one of the boys parents still refuse to believe that their little angel could do anything of the kind.

I bet ana fought hard enough to challenge the narcissistic pr1ck...and therefore triggered him to use extra force

Kidchameleon · 23-06-2019 03:22PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Helped? You have no empathy or sympathy for the bereaved parents of the dead girl. It’s a bit unnerving. They should punished, first of all,for taking the life of another child, in the full knowledge that what they were doing was wrong, They couldn’t have done anything any more evil. Ana deserves justice for this and hopefully, she’ll get it.
How?
They need to be segregated away from other people for a long time in case they feel the urge to kill again.
In this time,they need to be rebooted so that they know what is right and what is wrong. This, to me, will take at least 15 years.

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

Ash.J.Williams · 23-06-2019 03:23PM

Larsso30 wrote: »

If memory serves me right

Thompson was seen as the driving force behind the crime, the more evil of the two if you prefer, awful family home etc.

Venables seen as the follower, from the more stable family home. Softer almost

History has shown since their release that their behaviour is contrary to this, Thompson never been in trouble thay we are aware of
Venables the one who has been convicted multiple times for depraved crimes.

That makes Thompson the cold psychopath . Also the first child porn conviction looked to me like an attempt to go back to prison.venebales essentially handed the computer to the cops.

splinter65 · 23-06-2019 03:27PM

Suckit wrote: »

https://www.oberstown.com/campus-stats/

It will definitely be a shock to them.

I don't know about the background of these boys families, but assuming they came from fairly decent families, they will get some surprise when they realise they have to stay there for the forseeable future.

Actually they both spent some time there last summer, boy a 2 months and boy b 1, waiting for bail.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 03:35PM

splinter65 wrote: »

Helped? You have no empathy or sympathy for the bereaved parents of the dead girl. It’s a bit unnerving. They should punished, first of all,for taking the life of another child, in the full knowledge that what they were doing was wrong, They couldn’t have done anything any more evil. Ana deserves justice for this and hopefully, she’ll get it.
How?
They need to be segregated away from other people for a long time in case they feel the urge to kill again.
In this time,they need to be rebooted so that they know what is right and what is wrong. This, to me, will take at least 15 years.

The professional consensus is teenagers are not deemed fully developed and redeemable. Retribution is very much the emphasis in adult crime but redemption is the emphasis of teenage crime.

McCrack · 23-06-2019 03:37PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

Geraldine and Patrick are her parents are you should have the decency and respect to refer to them as such. You previously used quotation marks when referring to them as mum and dad which is really quite egregious and no better and in fact worse than other children taunting for being adopted

Shame on you

splinter65 · 23-06-2019 03:39PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

You haven’t expressed any sympathy for the victims family or any horror at the fact that an innocent child lies in a grave until it’s been pointed out to you that your sympathy is all for her killers and their families.
The innocent dead girls destroyed parents were sitting feet away from boy bs father trying to console one another after listening to the details of how boy a butchered their child, when he had his petulant self entitled foul mouthed outburst.
And you sympathise with him, but can’t find any sympathy for Ana’s father, who I’m sure would love to have reached out and grabbed at either boy at any stage over the previous 6 weeks.
Tell me something kidchameleon if Ana’s father had got some digs in on either boy would you also be understanding of him or would that be unacceptable out of control thuggery?

Kidchameleon · 23-06-2019 03:46PM

splinter65 wrote: »

You haven’t expressed any sympathy for the victims family or any horror at the fact that an innocent child lies in a grave until it’s been pointed out to you that your sympathy is all for her killers and their families.
The innocent dead girls destroyed parents were sitting feet away from boy bs father trying to console one another after listening to the details of how boy a butchered their child, when he had his petulant self entitled foul mouthed outburst.
And you sympathise with him, but can’t find any sympathy for Ana’s father, who I’m sure would love to have reached out and grabbed at either boy at any stage over the previous 6 weeks.
Tell me something kidchameleon if Ana’s father had got some digs in on either boy would you also be understanding of him or would that be unacceptable out of control thuggery?

I have expressed sympathy for the Kreigels, read the thread.

And yes, I would understand if Patrick lashed out. He is human after all, the same as B's dad.

FFred · 23-06-2019 03:56PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

And yes, I would understand if Patrick lashed out. He is human after all, the same as B's dad.

Wow. Just wow.

You are either that simple-minded or else you are someone who is taking some sick twisted pleasure in trolling one of the most serious and saddest threads that has ever appeared on boards. Shame on you .

I’m out.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 04:05PM

Dht wrote: »

When she entered the room she was hit by a plank which had nails embedded either end.. after disabling her she was dragged across the room towards the window so the light was better.. she was strangled by tape (given by boy b from his garage)... when she was found 3 fingers were inside the tape trying to get it off. She was struck over & over by the edge /point of a concrete block. My heart goes out to Ana... many would have been finished by being hit by a wooden plank with nails embedded..she fought back so hard.. the last thing she saw was a horrific mask towering over her. How her family & the boys family can go on ... I just don’t know

Boy B repeatedly lied on this point about Ana being assaulted while standing and stated that Ana was knocked with a judo move by Boy A. Forensic blood spatter indicate she was battered when standing. Why does he lie about this?

SirGerryAdams · 23-06-2019 04:16PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

Boy B repeatedly lied on this point about Ana being assaulted while standing and stated that Ana was knocked with a judo move by Boy A. Forensic blood spatter indicate she was battered when standing. Why does he lie about this?

I wonder how it was possible she fought back despite getting attacked with weapons.

And I wonder when he put the tape on her.

Greyfox · 23-06-2019 04:20PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can.

There evil little Sh**heads and a danger to society, calling them animals would be insulting to animals. rehabilitation might not be possible anyway, keeping them locked up for as long as possible is all that matters for now

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2019 04:22PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

We all have an opinion about this sad case and everyones opinion is valid . But one point in your post shows a lack of empathy towards the Kriégel family
Boy B’s father showed not one ounce of sorrow or empathy for Ana or her mother or her family . When he stood in court and cursed the detectives he was shouting in front of a family who’s girl was brutally murdered . Nothing can forgive that in my opinion

And I think the Kriegels are the best judges about what benefits them . Its not your call to know that. You do not get to have an opinion on their behalf

Once again the victim gets lost in the rush to protect the murderer . How very sad that you can even think like that

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 04:33PM

Suckit wrote: »

https://www.oberstown.com/campus-stats/

It will definitely be a shock to them.

I don't know about the background of these boys families, but assuming they came from fairly decent families, they will get some surprise when they realise they have to stay there for the forseeable future.

Oberstown is the only juvenile detention place in Irl. St Patrick's attached to Mountjoy has been shut with a few yrs. But there are a few Special Care Units operated by Tusla for troubled children and often send there by the courts on specific instructions by the judges that they don’t want them going to Oberstown. Oberstown can’t have Boy A and Boy B associating. English authorities ensured that Venerable and Thompson never met again following their trial. This they were emphatic about it. In England they have a few juvenile detention centres so it was easier to do. Oberstown has full education facilities with a full leaving certificate curriculum. While it’s the policy of such teenage detention places to allow “prisoner” association such can’t take place allowing Boy A and Boy B associating. It will need rethinking for them.

mrjoneill · 23-06-2019 04:48PM

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

I wonder how it was possible she fought back despite getting attacked with weapons.

And I wonder when he put the tape on her.

She was cornered she had to do what she had to do to try to get free. She was a big strong fit girl. I would imagine this was the time Boy A got his injuries before he moved in to knock her to the ground. I don't believe Boy A was her only attacker and Boy B played an actual part in this in either restraining her or impeding her escape. The room where she was attacked had a door and a window so wonder why she was unable to escape except both her attackers blocked both. As for the application of the tape I would imagine this despicable gruesome cruel act was done while she was incapacitated in an attempt to choke her to finally kill her. I don't know if this was a plan in bringing the tape for but I suspect the tape was for to tie her up while Boy A raped her.

Kidchameleon · 23-06-2019 04:51PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

We all have an opinion about this sad case and everyones opinion is valid

Totally agree with you there.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But one point in your post shows a lack of empathy towards the Kriégel family
Boy B’s father showed not one ounce of sorrow or empathy for Ana or her mother or her family . When he stood in court and cursed the detectives he was shouting in front of a family who’s girl was brutally murdered . Nothing can forgive that in my opinion

There is no shortage of sympathy towards the Kreigels and rightly so but there is a distinct lack of sympathy towards A & B's familys. Lets not forget, there are three familys destroyed because of this tragedy. I cannot blame B's dad for his actions in the court room. He has just seen his son charged with murder. Not everyone is going to be cool, calm and collected at a time like that. The poor man, im sure he regrets that outburst. He will never get a chance to apologise for it either, at least publicly due to the mob mentality in this country.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

And I think the Kriegels are the best judges about what benefits them . Its not your call to know that. You do not get to have an opinion on their behalf

I have said I hope the state gives them what ever they need. At mine and other tax payers expense. Im not sure how that can be considered "having an opinion on their behalf"

Calltocall · 23-06-2019 04:54PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Of course I feel sympathy for Geraldine and Patrick. I am happy that the state has done everything we can for them and will continue to do so.

But...

These boys, A & B are still human beings. Of course they need punishment. But they also need help so that their lives are not completely destroyed. Theres no point in that. This amount of revenge porn is sickening. Also keep in mind, they have familys that are effected by their actions. Should they have to lose their child/brother/grandson aswell? Why should they suffer? I can fully understand and forgive B's dad's outburst in the courtroom. It must have been a gruelling process for him aswell.

A & B are just children at the end of the day, very misguided and broken. We need to help them rebuild their lives as best we can. That way everyone gets the most benefit - including the Kreigels.

That response is very big of you, I wonder if you lost someone in circumstances like Ana to two animals would you say the same thing, no, you wouldn’t, like I said before boys b father should be ashamed of himself, instead of being a parent and making his son confess his crime he entertained his sons bull**** charade trying to throw the guards off until his lies eventually entrapped him and he couldn’t weasel out, then the father lashes out at the guards for doing their job for catching his murderer son, a great father indeed.

gctest50 · 23-06-2019 04:57PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

,..,............

. It will need rethinking for them.

Indeed, build a gallows out the front

SirGerryAdams · 23-06-2019 04:58PM

mrjoneill wrote: »

She was cornered she had to do what she had to do to try to get free. She was a big strong fit girl. I would imagine this was the time Boy A got his injuries before he moved in to knock her to the ground. I don't believe Boy A was her only attacker and Boy B played an actual part in this in either restraining her or impeding her escape. The room where she was attacked had a door and a window so wonder why she was unable to escape except both her attackers blocked both. As for the application of the tape I would imagine this despicable gruesome cruel act was done while she was incapacitated in an attempt to choke her to finally kill her. I don't know if this was a plan in bringing the tape for but I suspect the tape was for to tie her up while Boy A raped her.

So hard to comprehend because I couldn't imagine myself being able to fight back against someone after getting struck in the head.

I remember I got kneed in the face in a match before and I couldn't see anything.

You'd have to think why he would need the tape at all considering he hit her over the head with the brick several times too...

Little scumbags never told the truth.

iamwhoiam · 23-06-2019 05:08PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Totally agree with you there.

There is no shortage of sympathy towards the Kreigels and rightly so but there is a distinct lack of sympathy towards A & B's familys. Lets not forget, there are three familys destroyed because of this tragedy. I cannot blame B's dad for his actions in the court room. He has just seen his son charged with murder. Not everyone is going to be cool, calm and collected at a time like that. The poor man, im sure he regrets that outburst. He will never get a chance to apologise for it either, at least publicly due to the mob mentality in this country.

lf"

I see what you are doing on this thread and I for one will not bite

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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