do you think that murderers should be sent to jail?

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#32 12-09-2003 03:54PM

solice

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if thats the case, i stand corrected. but he commited murder, in front of the world, on camera. he did not show remorse for it. and american taxpayers paid for his incarcariation, paid to feed him, clothe him, wash him. thats sick

oh and partyboy, welcome to the conversation. see its not that hard

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#33 12-09-2003 03:59PM

Beëlzebooze

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Interesting thread for AH, too bad that pee-brain partyboy might get it locked.

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#34 12-09-2003 04:01PM

Beëlzebooze

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In general I don't agree with state sancioned murder , which the death penalty is. But on the other hand, some people just do not deserve to die, or realy are beyond the law.

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#35 12-09-2003 04:03PM

partyboy

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give murderers drugs

money

and access to children

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#36 12-09-2003 04:09PM

Victor

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Originally posted by solice
but as far as i am concerned, someone who takes a life is not worthy of living.

So do we then execute the executioner.

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#37 12-09-2003 04:19PM

Sposs

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#38 12-09-2003 04:29PM

Littletinyman

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LOLOLOL

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#39 12-09-2003 04:39PM

Victor

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Originally posted by solice
then why should we waste hundreds of thousands each year on keeping him locked up and then release him after 12.

€331,000,000 a year to keep an average of 3,200 prisoners = €103,000 per prisoner per year. Not "hundreds of thousands". And think of the millions that it would cost to have all those appeals.

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#40 12-09-2003 04:52PM

Beëlzebooze

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300 million to keep three and a half thousand peeps under lock and key?

300 MILLION?

just imagine what else could be done with that kind of money. the mind boggles.

where did you get this info from?

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#41 12-09-2003 05:17PM

Victor

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Originally posted by Beëlzebooze
300 million to keep three and a half thousand peeps under lock and key? 300 MILLION?

http://www.irishprisons.ie/statistics.asp

http://www.finance.gov.ie/publications/otherpubs/rev2003c.pdf Vote - 21, it actaully includes the Probation Service so it's actually less than €100,000 per prisoner. Most of the money actually goes on salaries.

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#42 12-09-2003 05:34PM

Mercury_Tilt

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This post has been deleted.

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#43 12-09-2003 05:43PM

Mossy Monk

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hard labour for all murderers. the death penalty would be too easy on them

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#44 12-09-2003 05:54PM

simu

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Yes, they should be jailed and for a *long* time. 12 yrs is not enough, good behaviour or no good behaviour. You kill someone as a teenager, you're out again when you're in your 30's.

I'm against the death penalty - firstly, in case new evidence comes to light and secondly because spending decades in a prison cell is tougher punishment than non-existence.

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#45 12-09-2003 08:19PM

LoneGunM@n

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Deep down I'd like to see all murderers burn in hell!!

But we live in a "civilised society", so that'd be wrong. So they should be made to serve @ least LIFE.

In the absence of the death penalty, they should be chucked in solitary confinement and fed bread & water for LIFE

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#46 12-09-2003 11:27PM

Littletinyman

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I'd like to see you burn in hell

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#47 12-09-2003 11:49PM

LegacyUser

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if there's ever a referendum on introducing the death penalty
there should be a clause

if you vote yes you will be the first miscarriage of justice

wonder would it pass

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#48 15-09-2003 02:25PM

solice

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when we had the three in a row referendum not so long ago we voted to remove the penalty as a means of punishment from the constituition.

i was too young to vote at the time but i was pushing to keep it in

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#49 15-09-2003 02:43PM

Beëlzebooze

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the penal system is about rehabilitation/reform, not about revenge. If convicted criminals are put to death, there is no rehabilitation, only revenge.

for those of you who are for the death penalty to be reintroduced, what did you have in mind?

the method used as a deterrent: electric chair, gas or hanging? or the more 'humane' method; Lethal injection?

what would the age cutoff point be? what about mentaly handicapped people? would they also be executed on your behest, like in the US?

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#50 15-09-2003 02:47PM

solice

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any person of sound mind (not legally insane) that shows no remorse for a murder committed by them should be executed.

i would think lethal injection would do fine

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#51 15-09-2003 02:54PM

Havelock

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[The following content should not be seen as all my own views but as a provokation for conversation]

Yes, the death penality should be brought back into effect.

Their should be no age restriction.

Their is no such thing as a miscarrage of justice.

It should not be restricted to murderers alone, rapests and drug dealers (of hard drugs) should suffer it to.

A bullet applied to the base of the skull will suffice, fired by state employed exicutioner. Full clip will be loaded to make sure.

Yes the severaly handicapped (those who cannot produce anything for the benifit of socity) should be sterilised and killed.

What is wrong with gasing? It would be a cheap and effective way of carring out the above.

All of socities dregs should be "cleanised" to make a more productive socity, with out burdens we would better prosper.

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#52 15-09-2003 02:55PM

K2

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I'm against the death penalty myself but would like to see a change in how criminals spend their lives while behind bars. They should only be allowed things like access to tv, pc, education courses if they do manual labouring ie breaking up a big rock with a small hammer. A silly example I know but the idea is to make prison such a crap place to spend time in that you have more of an incentive not to end up there. The current systems don't work as people keep re-offending. For lesser crimes such as shop lifting, joy riding etc why not a week in jail but with a difference, on Sunday you get 25 lashes, and each day thereafter you have another five added. You will be counting the days 'til Saturday and will not want to go thro that again in a hurry. Does anybody remember a case about 12 years ago involving an american teenager in Hong Kong? He got something like 20 lashes for spray painting graffitti onto a wall......bet he didn't do it again!

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#53 15-09-2003 04:43PM

The Sweeper

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I think the death penalty should be in place for certain crimes.

Murder of children by paedophiles. Rape-murder. Serial murder.

I don't agree that the hard graft in a prison cell is worse than the death penalty for those sort of people. The sort of people who commit the sort of crimes I've just listed have a playground in their own memories, where they can relive their crimes to pass the time.

I think they should simply be put down with a lethal injection and no ceremony, no media, no victim family attendance, no revenge.

Just put them down.

Like you would a dog.

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#54 15-09-2003 05:07PM

SkepticOne

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Originally posted by Havelock
[The following content should not be seen as all my own views but as a provokation for conversation]

Yes the severaly handicapped (those who cannot produce anything for the benifit of socity) should be sterilised and killed.

If you are going to kill them, why .... oh forget it.

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#55 15-09-2003 06:11PM

Hobart

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Originally posted by Beëlzebooze
the penal system is about rehabilitation/reform, not about revenge.

It's also about punishment. I say no to the death penalty. But I also say no to life imprisonment as it is (7 years). You must be joking me. Life should be at least 20 years for crimes of Murder, Rape and Paedophillia (ws?):

1 for the rehab
1 for the reform
18 for the punishment (and then let their God deal with them, if they have 1)

And none of this colour TV's, Gourmet Meals, Woodworking courses and state run PHd courses. Let them reflect. And let them feel every second of the 20 years.

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#56 15-09-2003 06:23PM

GuanYin

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One interesting idea that was referred to in a science board thread would be to offer criminals on long-term/life the opportunity to lesson their sentences by agreeing to partake in medical tests.
This would be beneficial in reducing animal testing while providing better comparitive testing of vacines and drugs (non-commerical ones).

There is a huge moral and ethical issue behind it although if it was conducted properly and the inmates were presented with this as an option, it would at least allow them to contribute to the human race rather than just take up taxpayers money. One could argue that putting oneself at risk to benefit society is a much better rehabillitation and repayal of debt to society than sitting in jail.

That said, I'm not sure if I'd agree with the idea. I'm just being devils advocate.

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#57 15-09-2003 08:50PM

Capt'n Midnight

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[stir]The death penalty is too lenient, there is always the possibility of reincarnation...[/stir]

In Dune the Guild threatened the Emperor with spending the rest of his life in a pain amplifier.

The problem with murder is that in most cases there are no witnesses (by definition) and so the evidence is usually circumstantial. This means quite a large number of miscarriges etc.

Now the question is how many innocent people should be sacrificed - how about an argument that says "we might kill X innocent victims - but if it prevents X+Y murders later on it's worth it"

The punishment should fit the crime, for crimes of fraud how about spending a year inside for each multiple of the average wage you take...

Crimes against people are strange in Irish law - the offender can get a lighter sentence depending on how the victim reacts afterwards. (hint - mug happy go lucky types) Rape used to treated as a crime against a man's property... You can kill someone with a car (is this murder, remember the law says if you hit anything it is your fault for going too fast - if you wern't going too fast or were in control of the car by definition the incident would not have happened.) and go free in a year or nick a handbag and the same judge will give you seven years..

In any event - alcohol or drugs must not be used as mitigating circumstances.

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#58 15-09-2003 09:52PM

solice

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i like the idea of medical testing. (i wonder what happens when you put sulphuric acid into eyes)

The problem with murder is that in most cases there are no witnesses (by definition) and so the evidence is usually circumstantial. This means quite a large number of miscarriges etc.

thats not true, most murderers are convicted on evidence that is not circumstantial. finger prints, semen, fibres from clothes, blood on clothes. you dont just need a wittness to convict someone on evidence that is not circumstantial

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#59 16-09-2003 11:31AM

Hobart

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Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
The problem with murder is that in most cases there are no witnesses (by definition) and so the evidence is usually circumstantial. This means quite a large number of miscarriges etc

Total and absolute crap. you have no idea what you are talking about.

The punishment should fit the crime,

I agree. How would you treat a murderer then?

Crimes against people are strange in Irish law

More rubbish

- the offender can get a lighter sentence depending on how the victim reacts afterwards.

what if the victim is dead?

You can kill someone with a car (is this murder, remember the law says if you hit anything it is your fault for going too fast - if you wern't going too fast or were in control of the car by definition the incident would not have happened.)

The law is already setup for this eventuality. You totally leave out the incidences of driving while under the influence of drink/drugs. Have you never come acroos Dangerous driving or Reckless driving?

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#60 16-09-2003 08:21PM

Stark

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i like the idea of medical testing. (i wonder what happens when you put sulphuric acid into eyes)

This was explained in "village of the damned". The other kids sense what happens then turn on the doctor and force her to drop acid into her own eye.

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#61 16-09-2003 08:56PM

Typedef

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Western criminal justice system's are a farce.

All that happens is offenders get locked away, not rehabilitated.

I'd almost be a proponent of draconian Psychological and Psychiatric corrective procedures being used to 'reprogram' offenders, since eventually these people (in the main) get let back out into society.

Obviously there are exceptions to this rule.

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