Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

mrjoneill · 22-06-2019 12:44PM

Nobelium wrote: »

As predicted, you've repeatedly attempted to avoid the question and have not answered what you were actually asked :

How much time should the murderers of Ana Kriegel serve and under what conditions ?

I believe Boy A will serve a min of 10yrs all going well.
For Boy B prob be out before he is 21 as he is much more manipulative and appears compliant and will adopt to the system much better. Going well he could have a good Leaving Cert and a Open University type degree. He is of the smarts type that though he was too smart for everyone even tried to persuade that 2 CCTV cameras was lying.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2019 12:49PM

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-the-five-things-that-convicted-boys-a-and-b-of-murder-1.3932346

Much of the bullying was about her height, her mother said. Ana was strong and tall, “a typical Siberian”, Geraldine said. She was also bullied about being adopted: other children told her she had “fake parents”.

There was palpable public anger outside the courtroom that this sensitive evidence was being elicited. Why did Boy A and Boy B enjoy anonymity while Ana’s most personal matters were aired in court?

But there was a good reason, the prosecution said. They needed to convey Ana’s vulnerability and need for friendship, because this is what her killers exploited to lure her to Glenwood House. Ana’s face lit up when Boy B called to the door to tell her his friend wanted to see her. She “bounded” out of the house, the prosecution said.

The final reason Geraldine and Patric Kriégel’s evidence was important was that it humanised Ana. All too often in murder trials the victims become an abstract piece of evidence.

Ana’s parents’ description of her personality, hobbies and interests made her a real presence for the jurors, and perhaps allowed them an insight into the thoughts going through her head on her last day alive.

Nobelium · 22-06-2019 12:52PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/ana-kri%C3%A9gel-the-five-things-that-convicted-boys-a-and-b-of-murder-1.3932346

Much of the bullying was about her height, her mother said. Ana was strong and tall, “a typical Siberian”, Geraldine said. She was also bullied about being adopted: other children told her she had “fake parents”.

There was palpable public anger outside the courtroom that this sensitive evidence was being elicited. Why did Boy A and Boy B enjoy anonymity while Ana’s most personal matters were aired in court?

But there was a good reason, the prosecution said. They needed to convey Ana’s vulnerability and need for friendship, because this is what her killers exploited to lure her to Glenwood House. Ana’s face lit up when Boy B called to the door to tell her his friend wanted to see her. She “bounded” out of the house, the prosecution said.

The final reason Geraldine and Patric Kriégel’s evidence was important was that it humanised Ana. All too often in murder trials the victims become an abstract piece of evidence.

Ana’s parents’ description of her personality, hobbies and interests made her a real presence for the jurors, and perhaps allowed them an insight into the thoughts going through her head on her last day alive.

As usual the victim and their family are lost in all of this.
Ana and her family got a life sentence, meanwhile all the focus is now on the rights of her murderers, and looking after them and their families instead.

mrjoneill · 22-06-2019 12:58PM

tayto lover wrote: »

That was an attempt to get the Garda to admit that she suspected Boy A of being involved in Ana’s disappearance and as such the clothes were seized illegally or under a false pretense and any evidence obtained from them would then have been inadmissible. The Garda had her facts right and he got nowhere.

The clothes were not seized in Boy's A boots and Clothes but were asked for and handed over for the investigation of a reported crime on Boy A. A DNA sample was taken at this time too. I don't believe Boy A was a suspect at that time (Ana's was then just a missing person) and even if he was it would have no repercussions. What would be inadmissible is if Boy A was questioned and he was a suspect without being cautioned ie his Miranda Rights. As soon as its apparent the person being questioned is a suspect it must stop and the caution delivered. I see it as play acting by Counsel for Boy B as a form of desperation. Boy A made no incriminating statements and I'm sure he was cautioned when it was apparent he was a suspect.

Suckit · 22-06-2019 01:11PM

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

FFred · 22-06-2019 01:17PM

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

A disgusting cretin :mad:

tayto lover · 22-06-2019 01:31PM

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.

Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

The Specialist · 22-06-2019 01:43PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.

Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

Should be melted down and poured down his ****ing throat.

El_Bee · 22-06-2019 01:52PM

tayto lover wrote: »

Agree 100%.
I’m so glad this little s*** was convicted.
Hope he’s inside playing with his f****** LEGO for many many years.

Though I bet he has no interest in LEGO at all.

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

pablo128 · 22-06-2019 01:59PM

El_Bee wrote: »

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

Yes.

Boggles · 22-06-2019 02:04PM

Asking for lego doesn't make one appear innocent. It just means they like lego.

As for Childish?

He is a child.

It's not like he asked for Peppa Pig.

Nobelium · 22-06-2019 02:12PM

El_Bee wrote: »

You think he asked for lego to make himself look more childish and innocent?

that and he liked taking the piss

Kidchameleon · 22-06-2019 02:21PM

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

Nobelium · 22-06-2019 02:38PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

yeah it's important to reward them for their efforts and make sure there remains no real deterrent to bullying, torture, sexual abuse and murder of an innocent girl. :rolleyes:

BloodBath · 22-06-2019 02:45PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

You are incredibly naive if you think these animals can be rehabilitated and integrate back into society. Maybe they can move in with you.

Gerianam · 22-06-2019 02:50PM

That is what I find so heart rending. Ana, the little sweetheart putting on her lovely.new hoodie and heading off happily with that monster.....

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2019 02:55PM

BloodBath wrote: »

You are incredibly naive if you think these animals can be rehabilitated and integrate back into society. Maybe they can move in with you.

They showed not one ounce of remorse , not one ounce of guilt , not ounce of empathy towards Ana mam and dad . Not one single ounce of regret or even a tear of empathy . Boy B spoke of Ana with disdain and used horrible words about her even after her death
Both these boys will never be rehabilitated in my opinion

SirGerryAdams · 22-06-2019 02:58PM

splinter65 wrote: »

There’s absolutely no evidence of Ana being in any contact with either boy at school so that is pure speculation on your behalf.
It is further wild speculation on your behalf that boy a is a psychopath. Nobody in authority in this case has suggested any such thing.
You stated in previous posts that Ana was groomed. Once again wild ludicrous completely unfounded speculation by you. Absolutely not one shred of evidence to support your theory.
The video of Ana tied and bound shows no evidence of either boy. No grooming by them. You’re just making stuff up as you’re going along now.

Actually, it is said that she told boy A she liked him before so there must have been some interaction of some kind some time...

Boy A must have known she liked him if he asked Boy B to get her...

splinter65 · 22-06-2019 03:08PM

Calltocall wrote: »

I find it difficult to have much sympathy for the parents of the perpetrators for a number of reasons but mainly because

A. During boy B’s numerous interviews with the gardai it would of become clear he was lying, changing story when the guards had him cornered etc etc, the guards knew he was lying and continued to probe and well done to them to get him to eventually fess up but even then I’m not convinced he told them the full truth. Where were his parents during all of this, why didn’t they intervene and basically grab him by the scruff of the neck and tell him enough of this **** you tell the guards the truth and face the consequences of what you did to that poor girl but no instead they sat back and allowed him to concoct his web of lies under their watchful eye, it’s shameful, you know your kids and you know when they are lying yet they allowed him to continue with his little charade. If that’s what their parenting amounted to then it’s no surprise what they are left with, an empty vessel of a child who does not fear telling lies and has no core sense of human decency /values/beliefs because he wasn’t taught any and without these we’re basically animals. For this I have little to no sympathy for them.

B. Boy B’s Fathers outburst in court summed it all up for me and it’s a true sign of degenerate behavior when rather than accept responsibility for your own actions you pass the blame onto others, he had no sense of sympathy for the victim who’s child had been brutally murdered, all the hallmarks of a degenerate no wonder the kid ended up in the situation he’s in when there’s no leadership from his parents

Again, I’ve no sympathy for them.

My feelings exactly. As much as I appreciate that no parent ever sets out to find themselves sitting in court with their 13 year old child being found guilty of murder, I think it never once occurred to him to spare a thought for the parents of the dead child, sitting so near to him. I think he saw them as the enemy almost. Their dead daughter was the cause of his inconvenience.

22-06-2019 03:12PM

Kidchameleon wrote: »

All this talk of having A and B hanged, locked up forever, they are "animals", "scum" etc. gets us nowhere. It only serves to placate the mob. The best thing would be for them to serve their sentence, during which time they should be rehabilitated such that they will no longer be a threat to the public. Hopefully they will enter back into society under new identities and be able to contribute something. There has been enough destruction because of this sorry indecent, it is time now to move on and make the best of it that we can. That would be the best way to remember Anna IMHO.

Personally i have no interest in their rehab. I'd lock them up for 50 years if it was up to me.

mrjoneill · 22-06-2019 03:16PM

Suckit wrote: »

Boy B must have been a really devious little f**ker. 3km he walked with her. She must have been ecstatic. God knows what sh*t he was filling her with/answering her questions.

Jesus.

Absolutely a devious b@stard that led a naive girl to her death chatting & smiling as he did. And he was the smarts guy of the 2. He really believed he could manipulate the world. He tried the same in Garda questioning to set the agenda, stating Ana was a weirdo, she had no friends, no one liked her, she was a slut for to ofset the Garda concerns as she was of no consequences. It was all his world. And he showed no remorse after it it was as if nothing happened and this was after a brutal savage murder that covered the room with blood spatter. In questioning he never expressed any remorse for what Ana suffered or her family. He never broke down in all of this and we still don't know the full story.

gozunda · 22-06-2019 03:16PM

Stheno wrote: »

He is served 13 years in total.

I'd expect boy A to get a similar sentence there appears to be a lot of similarities between the crimes.

Boy B I am not sure about

This was quoted earlier from a newspaper article

The two boys will be sentenced on July 15. While life sentences are mandatory in Irish law for adults in cases of murder, juveniles are treated differently.

In preparation for the sentencing, the presiding judge, Paul McDermott, has asked for probation, psychiatric and school reports on the two boys, which will be used, along with character witnesses and statements from those close to the victim, as guidelines.

Afaik Judges have discretion where minors are being sentenced for Crimes such as murder ...

tayto lover · 22-06-2019 03:17PM

All parents of children in Oberstown get free taxis to visit them. Paid by us.

Stheno · 22-06-2019 03:19PM

gozunda wrote: »

This was quoted earlier from a newspaper article

Afaik Judges have discretion where minors are being sentenced for Crimes such as murder ...

You're right they do have discretion

Calltocall · 22-06-2019 03:20PM

splinter65 wrote: »

My feelings exactly. As much as I appreciate that no paren ever sets out to find themselves sitting in court with their 13 year old child being found guilty of murder, I think it never once occurred to him to spare a thought for the parents of the dead child, sitting so near to him. I think he saw them as the enemy almost. Their dead daughter was the cause of his inconvenience.

Yes, it’s all quite chilling. The dirtbag didn’t even have the awareness that across from him sat the parents of a child who was savagely murdered and taken from them, what sort of a cretin, words fail me and he’s supposed to be the adult, no wonder the kid ended up the way he did. A damning indictment of society today.

SirGerryAdams · 22-06-2019 03:20PM

tayto lover wrote: »

All parents of children in Oberstown get free taxis to visit them. Paid by us.

Couldn't care less tbh, they have to live with the fact their scum children viciously murdered an innocent girl to death.

mrjoneill · 22-06-2019 03:21PM

BloodBath wrote: »

You are incredibly naive if you think these animals can be rehabilitated and integrate back into society. Maybe they can move in with you.

First thing in rehabilitation is accepting what u done and it was wrong in this case an abomination.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2019 03:27PM

tayto lover wrote: »

All parents of children in Oberstown get free taxis to visit them. Paid by us.

I don’t understand that . What is wrong with a bus ? Parents of very sick kids don’t automatically get taxies to visit them ? This country is a mess

El_Bee · 22-06-2019 04:00PM

Boggles wrote: »

Asking for lego doesn't make one appear innocent. It just means they like lego.

As for Childish?

He is a child.

It's not like he asked for Peppa Pig.

There's a lot of 10-14 year olds around here, they're horrible little things, the stuff that comes out of their mouths is vile, their behaviour can only be described as feral, I assure you none of them play with legos. There is a naivete about the innocence of children, especially those in Dublin, that creates an image of children that no longer exists.

iamwhoiam · 22-06-2019 04:11PM

El_Bee wrote: »

There's a lot of 10-14 year olds around here, they're horrible little things, the stuff that comes out of their mouths is vile, their behaviour can only be described as feral, I assure you none of them play with legos. There is a naivete about the innocence of children, especially those in Dublin, that creates an image of children that no longer exists.

Sorry but I live in Dublin and there are plenty of good , decent normal kids in Dublin . We are not all feral or wild

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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