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Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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Comments

  • #3152
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    Whose post sentence outcry? The dad I know, but were there others?

    His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now


  • #3153
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,108 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Tonight the following is true:
    Boy A and Boy B are detained and will be for many years. This is right and proper.

    Wannabe vigilantes, keyboard hard men and people who get some weird, sad satisfaction from seeming more distressed/or outraged about the situation have been clamouring for the names... the pictures... for the parents to be imprisoned... for their other children to be seized and handed over to strangers.

    I make absolutely no apology for knowing and saying that those in that camp are shameful, and those who share your feelings are responsible for the other truths of this night:

    An innocent child has been named, shamed and shared as one of the perpetrators;

    The family of Boy B, who include other young and totally innocent children have been forced into hiding.

    And for what?

    I echo the remarks of Justice Michael White, and hope that AGS “pursue with vigour” the “idiots” responsible for this. Including as many of the sad mob begging for it as possible.

    They were tried as capable of criminal responsibility in an adult court.
    They should have been named.

    Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #3154
    Happy4all
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    Stheno wrote: »
    His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now

    and remaining living in the area was always going to be impossible..because of the ACTIONS OF THEIR SON.....no one else.


  • #3155
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Stheno wrote: »
    His family apparently they didn't feel the need to move until now
    I get ya. Still possible though. And the thought of younger kids being terrorised by the mob is heartbreaking too. But that bullying would be ok - shur damn them for who their brothers are.


  • #3156
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    They were tried as capable of criminal responsibility in an adult court.
    They should have been named.

    Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

    It was an adult court because of the severity of the crime but they are still children in the eyes of the law in Irish. They are children who because of their age(over 10 years old) age can be held responsible for murder.
    Many of the things people are now calling for could have resulted in a mistrial, is that really the outcome you wanted?


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  • #3157
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    They should have been named.

    To what end?
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Anyone who breaks the law in harrassing family should be arrested.

    That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.


  • #3158
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    mrjoneill wrote: »
    The school identified itself in its own web page and had posted comments on the regret over Ana's death.

    Oh don't get me wrong the school is out I was just trying to give a reason why the judge might make such an order maybe trying to defend the innocents.


  • #3159
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    guestus wrote: »
    Would you like your daughter going out with one of these guys when they get out of prison , without knowing who they are and what they did?

    I would not like anyone I know dating them but by the time they get out they may have a different name or changed there appearance or are you going to stop your daughter dating any John Smith (plucked name from my head) or maybe some poor unfortunate innocent who looks like one


  • #3160
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

    I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

    The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #3161
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,108 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    tuxy wrote: »
    It was an adult court because of the severity of the crime but they are still children in the eyes of the law in Irish. They are children who because of their age(over 10 years old) age can be held responsible for murder.
    Many of the things people are now calling for could have resulted in a mistrial, is that really the outcome you wanted?

    They are criminally responsible. That law is real. Treating them as children rather than young adults when they are found guilty of such a serious crime and thinking you could keep their names under wraps is fantasy stuff. Their names were known all over the locality.

    We name other murderers. Child killers too. Doesnt cause a mistrial.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #3162
    Aisling_Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9 ✭Aisling_Dublin


    Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »
    My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

    Exactly what I think, too. I would move countries for my child in this situation.


  • #3163
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    Boy A wore a horror mask, nee pad and whatever else was part of his killing gear.

    I'd imagine it was designed to frighten the life out of poor Ana.

    The state afforded boy A & B anonymity, and did you know that the judge and the legal people discarded their wigs and robes and all dressed in suits during the trial so as not to intimidate the two little boys on trial.

    Sure the little knacks were excused from hearing evidence as it was deemed too graphic for them... even though it was them who bloody caused it. Farce.


  • #3164
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,108 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    To what end?
    That still means innocent people will have been harassed or worse when we could chose to reduce the chances. If the idea of children being harassed is an acceptable risk to some, it's not acceptable to me.

    We would name an adult child killer even if they have children of their own.
    To what end?
    Murderers should be treated the same regardless of age.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #3165
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    martingriff wrote: »
    I would not like anyone I know dating them but by the time they get out they may have a different name or changed there appearance or are you going to stop your daughter dating any John Smith (plucked name from my head) or maybe some poor unfortunate innocent who looks like one

    The man involved in this murder is living in london with a wife and kids and working in finance.

    Wonder do any of his colleagues or friends know his history.


  • #3166
    Blinky Plebum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 314 ✭✭Blinky Plebum


    I read the long article on the Irish times website and a couple of things that struck me was how incredibly poorly in my eyes the Psychologist who interviewed Boy B came across and how completely crass and insensitive Boy B's father was to start shouting at the end of the trial.

    Unbelievably sad story the sort of thing that will honestly stick with me for life.Feel terribly sorry for Ana's parents they must have waited so long to finally have a child and now she's been cruelly taken away from them.


  • #3167
    SirChenjin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭SirChenjin


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Just watched Prime Time . What a sad and painful story to watch . Anas parents are so dignified and spoke beautiful words about their Ana outside court
    Sometimes we forget that Ana was a mother and fathers little girl and their pain and trauma is heart wrenching .

    Let us never forget Ana and I hope we learn from this . And just maybe young people watching might think twice about what they did by de humanising Ana and see what bullying does . Maybe parents will see it and speak to their kids and maybe schools will see it and review their actions towards bullying
    Let Anas story teach us to watch out for each other .

    Haven't watched the programme but it's a point I have made a couple of times in the thread. Ana was a beautiful child who was deeply loved. This is evident from everything that her parents said about her in the course of the trial. I cannot begin to imagine their horrendous loss, in the very worst of circumstances.

    May she rest in peace, poor innocent child.


  • #3168
    tuxy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,980 ✭✭✭✭tuxy


    Aisling_Dublin wrote: »
    Exactly what I think, too. I would move countries for my child in this situation.

    I find passing some of the blame on to her parents an extremely disgusting move.
    She had other issues that she was getting counselling on. Why move her when progress is being made in counselling? Moving could have caused other issues.


  • #3169
    martingriff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,729 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Rogelio Purring Dresser wrote: »
    My concern is that everyone knew she was bullied in the school. Why did her parents leave her there? Why not move her?

    Unfortunately I knew of a person been bullies and did everything under the sun including to move school did no good and unfortunately did not end well not murder but you get where I am going. Years later and parents still shattered


  • #3170
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Sure the little knacks were excused from hearing evidence as it was deemed too graphic for them... even though it was them who bloody caused it. Farce.

    The concept of presumption of innocence is crucial to the Irish legal system. At the time the evidence was being shown it had yet to be determined that they had caused it. Do you think it would be right for two innocent children to be exposed to that graphic evidence? I certainly don't, and as such I think it was a good call on the part of the judge.


  • #3171
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 23,237 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Being different is such an amazing gift and she was bullied and killed for it


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  • #3172
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Aisling_Dublin wrote: »
    Exactly what I think, too. I would move countries for my child in this situation.

    Her parents did all they could to protect their daughter. They have no questions to answer to anyone in this.


  • #3173
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    tuxy wrote: »
    I find passing some of the blame on to her parents an extremely disgusting move.
    She had other issues that she was getting counselling on. Why move her when progress is being made in counselling? Moving could have caused other issues.

    This. A thousand percent this.

    The armchair jury will never be satisfied. The parents of the boys, Ana the victim's parents, then the school, then on and on.

    Today I saw tweets from a fairly well followed and respected tweeter screeching that the entire town of Leixlip be condemned? 15,000 people?


  • #3174
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,548 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    The concept of presumption of innocence is crucial to the Irish legal system. At the time the evidence was being shown it had yet to be determined that they had caused it. Do you think it would be right for two innocent children to be exposed to that graphic evidence? I certainly don't, and as such I think it was a good call on the part of the judge.

    But now that it has been determined they caused it, that evidence should be played over & over 24/7 in both of their rooms for the duration of their detention.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #3175
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    I feel that the state should intervene to publish their identities and appearances on their eventual release.

    Otherwise the state may be liable for negligence when the inevitable happens and some unfortunate woman meets either one of them and is taken in by their, no doubt, jolly demeanour and, no doubt, flawless social skills.

    There is plenty time to lobby the relevant politicians/civil servants and have a proper procedure in place for properly informing the public, you wouldn't be allowed put a dangerous car on the market for God's sake.


  • #3176
    Fall_Guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Fall_Guy


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    But now that it has been determined they caused it, that evidence should be played over & over 24/7 in both of their rooms for the duration of their detention.

    To what end??


  • #3177
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    Being different is such an amazing gift and she was bullied and killed for it

    This earlier post puts it quite well.


  • #3178
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Fall_Guy wrote: »
    The concept of presumption of innocence is crucial to the Irish legal system. At the time the evidence was being shown it had yet to be determined that they had caused it. Do you think it would be right for two innocent children to be exposed to that graphic evidence? I certainly don't, and as such I think it was a good call on the part of the judge.

    TBF, thats a good point.


  • #3179
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭McCrack


    jobbridge4life wrote: »
    Tonight the following is true:

    Boy A and Boy B are detained and will be for many years. This is right and proper.

    Wannabe vigilantes, keyboard hard men and people who get some weird, sad satisfaction from seeming more distressed/or outraged about the situation have been clamouring for the names... the pictures... for the parents to be imprisoned... for their other children to be seized and handed over to strangers.

    I make absolutely no apology for knowing and saying that those in that camp are shameful, and those who share your feelings are responsible for the other truths of this night:

    An innocent child has been named, shamed and shared as one of the perpetrators;

    The family of Boy B, who include other young and totally innocent children have been forced into hiding.

    And for what?

    I echo the remarks of Justice Michael White, and hope that AGS “pursue with vigour” the “idiots” responsible for this. Including as many of the sad mob begging for it as possible.

    I think youre being naive

    Also the suggestion that an incorrect photograph has been circulated is a red herring and the suggestion that detectives around the county have begun some national investigation into sharing of names and photographs is quite a pathetic attempt to quell it and naive people like you swallow it


  • #3180
    jobbridge4life
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Gadgetman496 wrote: »
    But now that it has been determined they caused it, that evidence should be played over & over 24/7 in both of their rooms for the duration of their detention.

    Jesus.

    Why not just kill them?


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  • #3181
    Hal3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 818 ✭✭✭Hal3000


    bessboroughboy wrote: »
    I feel that the state should intervene to publish their identities and appearances on their eventual release.

    Otherwise the state may be liable for negligence when the inevitable happens and some unfortunate woman meets either one of them and is taken in by their, no doubt, jolly demeanour and, no doubt, flawless social skills.

    There is plenty time to lobby the relevant politicians/civil servants and have a proper procedure in place for properly informing the public, you wouldn't be allowed put a dangerous car on the market for God's sake.

    Fair enough, but while we're at it can we ask them to review our sentencing laws and why bullying is allowed to continue in our schools with little consequences for the bullies?


This discussion has been closed.
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