Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 01:08PM

dickangel wrote: »

Boy A was supposedly tall for his age, and skilled in martial arts.

Which is why he did the killing and B brought him to her.

Strazdas · 19-06-2019 01:09PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

She was 5'8. She wasn't a small child. The coward wanted to knock her out or at least maim her so they had the upper hand.

We don't know how tall/big the boys were but 5'8" at 13 is very unusual.

I believe A is supposed to be the taller and stronger of the two. The key point anyway is that it strongly suggests premeditation and a planned attack on her. Very hard to believe that B wasn't aware of this when he brought her to the abandoned house - this must have come up in conversation between A and B.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 01:10PM

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Would guards have checked for text messages on the phones? Or facebook messages or connections?

I don't think there was anything said about those?

Yes, good point. No mention of texts especially at the crucial time B got Ana. You'd imagine a text to A saying she'd agreed to go with him and they were on their way

The White Wolf · 19-06-2019 01:11PM

theguzman wrote: »

Leftwing social democratic parties across Europe I was alluding to, you know the leftist SJW types who hate their own countries. The Macrons and Jeremy Corbyns of this world.

Jeremy Corbyn who is supporting Brexit by respecting the fact more or less have the country supported leaving the EU. That Jeremy Corbyn?

AudreyHepburn · 19-06-2019 01:11PM

simongurnick wrote: »

A lot of talk on here is around internet usage, but that wasn't used in court. What was discussed in the case is the question of one of the boys being a goth and involvement in satanic culture. I wonder how much of that stuff was at play here or were these two scumbags evil since birth?

I’m all for trying to understand what drives people to commit terrible acts and figure out warning signs for future potential cases but a lot that talk with regard to this particular case just smacks of scapegoating to me.

The blame for what happen to Ana Kriegal lies solely with Boy A and Boy B. Not their parents, not the school, not the internet, just those two clearly unwell and unhinged boys.

dickangel · 19-06-2019 01:12PM

Melanie Tangy Appendix wrote: »

No, the Kriegels found out his surname from social media, I'm not sure how one would go about finding anyone on a database with just a first name. But I'd say you're right he himself was on there for something minor. Not too familiar with it but I assume a caution for vandalism or something like that would be logged there.

Similar to finding someone on social media with just a first name. Enter the name plus the town/locality.

Gimme A Pound · 19-06-2019 01:13PM

Former Observer wrote: »

Not the brightest spark are you. Your whole post is litany of muddled thinking.

I didn't copy the original post in its entirety because nothing substantive was said by that poster and I didn't feel like clogging up the thread with a totally redundant post a second time. Pretty much like what I'm going to do with yours. And I reckon that poster can fight his own battles little man.

I'm a woman.

And that's just a load of padding meaning "I like to dishonestly cherry pick because it gets me out of having to respond to points which I can't." It was taken completely out of context - it had nothing to do with virtue signalling and it wasn't cringey.

Also, if a person doesn't agree with you, it doesn't mean they're not the brightest.

Now go back to your faux concern for the boys and your faux puzzlement at the anger, and your lording it over the plebs in order to feel so much more sophisticated and enlightened.

Never mind that a young girl was butchered.

I don't agree with the execution posts either but there are more pressing concerns around this case than words from anonymous accounts. And to get so vocal about them - much more so than the actual case, is downright weird.

Dual wheels · 19-06-2019 01:13PM

At the age of 13/14 you are old enough to know that killing someone is wrong wrong wrong, to have planned it is nothing short of disgusting sick and twisted. I know that when I was 14 I knew not to do anything that would potentially land me in trouble with the gardai because I knew what my parents would do, I also knew that you never ever hit a girl, so whilst these boys are sick and twisted individuals who should never ever life in civilized society again, a lot of the blame has to go on the parents who obviously didn’t do their job, <snip>, they obviously thought that them and their kids were above morality and the law, either way, both sets of families lives are finished, they will have to move away, good enough for them, it’s the victims family that can never get away from this, those two boys will be out on the streets in less than 10 years and will probably be a bigger danger to society by then

Grayson · 19-06-2019 01:14PM

Franz Von Peppercorn II wrote: »

In these cases where emotions run high a few people will demand the death penalty which I am personally opposed to. To a certain extent it is understandable.

However that tends to bring in the virtue signallers, who, while silent enough on the actual crime, oppose the death penalty, big up their IQ, and decry the red top reading masses for their revenge fantasys.

A plague on their houses. Now is not the time or place.

I think you'd find that the people who oppose the death penalty have already expressed horror at this crime. Implying that someone who is against the death penality doesn't give a fcuk about what happened to the poor girl is just horrible.

It's also illogical. Why would someone who is against the death penalty not feel for a teenage girl who was killed?

dickangel · 19-06-2019 01:15PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Yes, good point. No mention of texts especially at the crucial time B got Ana. You'd imagine a text to A saying she'd agreed to go with him and they were on their way

Boy B kept losing his phones. There obviously wasn't a text to that nature sent from their phones.

kildare lad · 19-06-2019 01:15PM

....... wrote: »

A couple of years ago a colleague went to a pre-secondary school parent teacher meeting type thing with all the other parents and some IT security expert.

The IT guy told them that something like 74% of 11 year olds had sent a naked or partially naked picture of themselves on a social media platform.

Pretty much every parent in the rooms shook their heads and said "no - not my kid".

My son goes to a disco for 5th and 6th class every few weeks. I collect him after it and the amount of kids coming outside and taking iPhones out of their pockets is unreal. These kids are all 11 or 12 years old. It's far to young to have an iPhone. Parents should be a bit more responsible and not let their kids have one. I can understand a phone for contacting your child but it doesn't have to be a smartphone. I didn't have a phone till I was 15 and neither did my friends and we managed to survive fine.

I know it's a different era we live in now, but one pic or video of the kid doing sonething stupid . Then its shared to everyone in the school. Some kids at a young age wouldn't be able to take it mentally and top themselves. I'm glad we had none of that growing up and could entertain ourselves without technology.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 01:15PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m all for trying to understand what drives people to commit terrible acts and figure out warning signs for future potential cases but a lot that talk with regard to this particular case just smacks of scapegoating to me.

The blame for what happen to Ana Kriegal lies solely with Boy A and Boy B. Not their parents, not the school, not the internet, just those two clearly unwell and unhinged boys.

I think in the initial aftermath people are talking about the crime in a wider sense, which is only natural. I think most are of the opinion the blame lies with the boys. Not many are minimising their role over anyone else.

I think it's naive to rule out other influences entirely though.

Necro · 19-06-2019 01:16PM

Gimme A Pound wrote: »

People lost their sh1t over that licencing thing. All very lady doth protest too much.

You shouldn't have to say you're not a prude. Of course you're not. Objecting to children who were born in 2004/5 having easy access to extremely dark porn a few years back has nothing to do with being a prude.

If an adult showed it to them it would be considered sexual abuse. So if it's damaging in one context, then it's damaging in others.

I agree, I think it's bonkers how easy it is for kids to access that sort of material. And they are outstripping all of us with ways of accessing it too, that's the main concern.

I'm not that old but I expect in about 5 years time my eldest will likely run rings around me when it comes to electronics and IT. And it scares the bejaysus out of me tbh.

dickangel · 19-06-2019 01:17PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Which is why he did the killing and B brought him to her.

I'm just responding to you saying we don't know how big the boys were, we know of them was tall for his age. The Irish Times article has all the info you need.

joe40 · 19-06-2019 01:18PM

....... wrote: »

I elaborated on the 74% above - btw I wasnt at the meeting where the figure was mentioned, just relaying what my colleague told me.

(who then went home and checked his kids phone and lol and behold found dick pics).

Yeah, sorry I saw your elaboration after I had posted.
Your poor friend that must have been awkward.

GreeBo · 19-06-2019 01:18PM

Cryptopagan wrote: »

Dunno about that. There are strict parole conditions attached to released murderers and they can be sent back to prison for breaking them. I don’t think you can just go and relocate to another country to get away from that.

If they get life in Ireland then it doesnt necessarily mean they are in prison for life, just that they have a life sentence. They could get out after X years, but at any time they can be locked up again.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 01:19PM

dickangel wrote: »

I'm just responding to you saying we don't know how big the boys were, we know of them was tall for his age. The Irish Times article has all the info you need.

I've read the article, thanks.

I know A was into martial arts. It's obvious he would likely be the one to do the initial attack to bring Ana down.

19-06-2019 01:19PM

nehemiah wrote: »

There's no way to ensure rehabilitation, in the same way that there is no way to ensure that every murder conviction is 100% correct, which is why the death penalty was removed in the first place.

FWIW, the recidivism rate in Ireland is at it's lowest amongst prisoners convicted of homicide. Can't find exactly the number of convicted murderers that kill again after being released but I would imagine it's very low. I'm sure it has happened (and I'm sure my ignorance will be highlighted pretty quickly) but it's much lower than the average recidivism rate.

How many would have committed other crimes on their release?

....... · 19-06-2019 01:20PM

joe40 wrote: »

Yeah, sorry I saw your elaboration after I had posted.
Your poor friend that must have been awkward.

He was initially furious. But then he was just glad he had found them and it afforded an opportunity to talk to his kid.

The thing he impressed upon his kid was that (a) its child porn and (b) the internet is FOREVER. So that pic could follow him around.

Course the kid goes "well my face isnt in it so it might not be me". :mad:

19-06-2019 01:21PM

joe40 wrote: »

It happens but not that high. 75% of 11 year olds sexting, I find that hard to believe.

We'd have to hope it's nowhere near that high.

My anecdotal contribution...

Recently I visited some friends one evening, and while I was in the house the bullying of their eldest (call her Sarah) was the predominant topic of conversation. The following day, the mother was keeping Sarah home from school and going in herself for a meeting with Sarah's year head.

The girl who was leading the bullying was mainly hitting Sarah over being "frigid" and other sexually-related things like having a flat-chest, nothing terribly new from back in my day. As it turns out though, as both the mother and Sarah attested to seeing, this girl who was leading the bullying was making and sending graphic videos of herself to at least one boy in their class. The video was described to me, but I won't describe it here because 1) Just nope, and 2) I fear that I could end up on a list. These kids are 13, first years

Rightfully as a society we have been very focused on and worried about what adults can do to children via the internet. We need to cast an eye on what the kids are doing to each other as well though.

80sChild · 19-06-2019 01:21PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

Yes, good point. No mention of texts especially at the crucial time B got Ana. You'd imagine a text to A saying she'd agreed to go with him and they were on their way

Unfortunately, that age group are using snapchat for stuff like this. Disappears like smoke in the air once sent and read.

Grayson · 19-06-2019 01:22PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I’m all for trying to understand what drives people to commit terrible acts and figure out warning signs for future potential cases but a lot that talk with regard to this particular case just smacks of scapegoating to me.

The blame for what happen to Ana Kriegal lies solely with Boy A and Boy B. Not their parents, not the school, not the internet, just those two clearly unwell and unhinged boys.

To be fair we can't say that 100% percent. Although there's no evidence to suggest it was bad parenting or anything like that. So anyone saying it is bad parenting is saying something there's no evidence for.

AudreyHepburn · 19-06-2019 01:23PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I think in the initial aftermath people are talking about the crime in a wider sense, which is only natural. I think most are of the opinion the blame lies with the boys. Not many are minimising their role over anyone else.

I think it's naive to rule out other influences entirely though.

I’m not saying we rule out altogether. I’m saying that using it to excuse what the two boys did is not dealing with problem.

There is clearly some underlying mental issues for both boys that were either missed completely, ignored or perhaps seen but not understood for what they were. That’s of far more concern to me than that they might have seen a violent image or clip somewhere.

Necro · 19-06-2019 01:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

We'd have to hope it's nowhere near that high.

My anecdotal contribution...

Recently I visited some friends one evening, and while I was in the house the bullying of their eldest (call her Sarah) was the predominant topic of conversation. The following day, the mother was keeping Sarah home from school and going in herself for a meeting with Sarah's year head.

The girl who was leading the bullying was mainly hitting Sarah over being "frigid" and other sexually-related things like having a flat-chest, nothing terribly new from back in my day. As it turns out though, as both the mother and Sarah attested to seeing, this girl who was leading the bullying was making and sending graphic videos of herself to at least one boy in their class. The video was described to me, but I won't describe it here because 1) Just nope, and 2) I fear that I could end up on a list. These kids are 13, first years

Rightfully as a society we have been very focused on and worried about what adults can do to children via the internet. We need to cast an eye on what the kids are doing to each other as well though.

Christ.

Right I'm out folks, I'm off to Outer Siberia with the family till the kids are 18.

That's absolutely horrifying and something I'd almost be sure goes on in many many schools around the country.

dickangel · 19-06-2019 01:24PM

Sunflower 27 wrote: »

I've read the article, thanks.

I know A was into martial arts. It's obvious he would likely be the one to do the initial attack to bring Ana down.

I'm not sure there was ever a discussion over who should do the attack and it was decided it should be Boy A because he does martial arts. Boy A wanted to do the attack (he was the one that raised the idea in the first place) and Boy B wanted to witness it, in my opinion.

So I really don't see how him being tall and good at martial arts means that he was obviously going to be the attacker. I think he just wanted to be the one to do it.

Aisling_Dublin · 19-06-2019 01:26PM

I can't wrap my head around why the Ana's parents never took her out of the school seeing clearly that she was suffering, why didn't they take her out after the first ever bullying incident, after the death threats or even after one if the teachers confided in them about how gravely concerned she was.... Take her out to safety, home school, miss a year, find tutors, or no tutors, a vocational school maybe, anything to save her. Can't forgive them for their passivity, although they are of course their own judges and punishers now.

Sunflower 27 · 19-06-2019 01:26PM

80sChild wrote: »

Unfortunately, that age group are using snapchat for stuff like this. Disappears like smoke in the air once sent and read.

Cheers, I'm not up on all that stuff

(70s child)

Cryptopagan · 19-06-2019 01:27PM

GreeBo wrote: »

If they get life in Ireland then it doesnt necessarily mean they are in prison for life, just that they have a life sentence. They could get out after X years, but at any time they can be locked up again.

Yes, they are released on license and considered to be serving the remainder of their sentence in the community. I don’t know what kind of conditions are attached usually, but I guess probably stuff like checking in at a garda station regularly, engaging with rehabilitation services etc. I don’t think you can just up sticks to another country. You’d be violating the conditions of your release and would be liable to be rearrested and returned to jail.

19-06-2019 01:28PM

I read that one of the boys under interview asked for his mother to leave the room. Sounded like he was about to tell more but didn't want to in front of her. We are too soft allowing parents to hold their kids hands through interviews anyway

SirGerryAdams · 19-06-2019 01:28PM

Hard to believe 13 year old boys would be as cool after the event. I know Boy A made out he was attacked and he might have been a bit shaken but even still...

Boy B must have known something terrible happened. He either saw it start or he saw it all.

Boy A did it.

It would take a really strange coincidence for Boy B to be someone who just so happened to not be phased by an attack he saw, had Boy B only been asked to bring Ana there, not knowing about what was going to happen.

How likely would it be that a 13 year old boy would be unphased from seeing a vicious attack on a now missing girl?

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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