Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

brooke 2 · 19-06-2019 12:47AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Exactly this for me. He lied and lied and lied some more in the police interviews and everytime he tried to throw Boy A under the bus.

Boy B is the orchestrator of this, 100%. No doubt some people will think he was easily led though.

He went from leaving them in the park to watching her die in the farmhouse in a matter of 8 Garda interviews. If he was innocently led, he would have sung straight away.

Totally agree that Boy B was the orchestrator. Even afterwards, when their friends knew both boys had been brought in for questioning, while Boy A was nervous and shaky, Boy B's demeanour was perfectly calm. There was no doubt he was the more clever of the two, knew what Boy A's 'interests' were, and, possibly even egged him on to carry out the horrific murder.

19-06-2019 12:47AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He told the guards.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/ana-kriegel-murder-trial-case-16209873

He also perfectly described the room she was killed in.

He was sure there long enough.

Thanks for the link. Only he will ever know why he didn't intervene. He either enjoyed it or was petrified.

Nerdlingr · 19-06-2019 12:47AM

Hoboo wrote: »

Being at the scene of a murder and doing nothing is not a crime.

Giving someone tape is not a crime.

No plan to kill was ever discussed. Yes Boy A asked B would he like to kill, and that he would like to kill Ana, but no plan, that we know of, was discussed.

Only thing they can go on was that he wasn't aware of Boy A's intentions. I think it'll be harder to prove that he was aware than not. Beyond reasonable doubt being key.

Where did I say being at a scene of a murder and doing nothing is a crime?

Giving someone tape and then them using the tape to kill someone is a crime, If you know what that tape will be used for. Along with the luring to the abandoned house.
This is aiding and abeting.

We do not know if they discussed a plan to kill Ana for sure. So to say no plan was ever discussed is false. The fact is we do not know. What we do know is Boy B stated Boy A told him he wanted to kill Ana but he didn't believe him. In trying to implicate his friend he implicates himself.

The only thing we can go is not that he wasnt aware of boy A's intentions but the facts...

That boy B stated boy A discussed killing ana
That boy B gave him the tape
That boy B led ana to the farmhouse
That boy B watched the attack happen
That bit B continually changed his story to fit what the Gardai knew about it

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 12:48AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Did he say 'luring'? Or simply say he was taking her to meet Boy A.

And plenty of people lie. As the judge correctly stated to the jury in summing up.

He admitted he lied to her.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 12:49AM

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Where did I say being at a scene of a murder and doing nothing is a crime?

Giving someone tape and then them using the tape to kill someone is a crime, If you know what that tape will be used for. Along with the luring to the abandoned house.
This is aiding and abeting.

We do not know if they discussed a plan to kill Ana for sure. So to say no plan was ever discussed is false. The fact is we do not know. What we do know is Boy B stated Boy A told him he wanted to kill Ana but he didn't believe him. In trying to implicate his friend he implicates himself.

The only thing we can go is not that he wasnt aware of boy A's intentions but the facts...

That boy B stated boy A discussed killing ana
That boy B gave him the tape
That boy B led ana to the farmhouse
That boy B watched the attack happen
That bit B continually changed his story to fit what the Gardai knew about it

We know they discussed killing Ana.

Hoboo · 19-06-2019 12:51AM

Strazdas wrote: »

It's very hard to think of an innocent explanation for walking 3km with Ana to an abandoned house where he knows A is waiting inside. He must have told lies to Ana to get her to go there and he knows A doesn't like Ana.

Completely agree with you, no doubt he lured her there and he had to have known it was for something sinister. But the evidence to prove he knew Boy A intended to murder her is very weak. Which means there's doubt.

But look, I haven't seen interview tapes or anything, just going on the IT report and other media, so like most, it's just an unqualified opinion.

19-06-2019 12:51AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We know they discussed killing Ana.

Exactly what innocent person, lures someone to an abandoned house to meet a person who asked if they wanted to murder them

Strazdas · 19-06-2019 12:52AM

brooke 2 wrote: »

Totally agree that Boy B was the orchestrator. Even afterwards, when their friends knew both boys had been brought in for questioning, while Boy B was nervous and shaky, Boy B's demeanour was perfectly calm. There was no doubt he was the more clever of the two, knew what Boy A's 'interests' were, and, possibly even egged him on to carry out the horrific murder.

Also, jurors would have seen his demeanour in the eight interviews. The interviews and how he was coming across seem to have played a big part in getting him convicted, not just the bare evidence.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 12:54AM

How strong are 13 yr old boys? Girls mature earlier. I know i was pretty strong at 13 ...as a girl i think i could fight for my life. But TWO 13 yr old boys ...??

And boy b had injuries. So how did he get them???

brooke 2 · 19-06-2019 12:55AM

Mech1 wrote: »

I would wager that a few more kids in that school might have known what these two where planning, girls included.

I would be concerned about the few other names, beside A's and B's, that were in Boy B's copybook which contained details of their 'satanic cult'. Horrifying to think there could be other schoolmates out there with the same mindset as these two murderers.

19-06-2019 12:56AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This boy has admitted to the very least luring a girl to a boy he knew was into sexual abuse. Has admitted to seeing her raped and killed. Knew the place inside out in his description. GAVE the killer the weapon. And rather than call police to HELP her, lied for weeks.

He was afraid the other boy would snake him. Which leads me to believe he touched her and there was physical evidence he was afraid they might find.

Again, 'luring' implies knowledge of a crime about to happen. Possibly aware, possibly not.

Had the other boy a history of sexual abuse? No. He may have believed that something consensual was about top occur as Ana liked Boy A.

The weapons were concrete and a stick (?) or blunt instrument. Did Boy B give them to Boy A? I think not.

If innocent then no excuse for not calling the police and continuing to lie. I try putting myself in his place as a thirteen year old. I assume I'd act and take on Boy A even if much more physically powerful. I hope I would. But it's really hard to put yourself into the mindset of a kid like that (if innocent) if confronted by a wild assault on a girl. And running away trying to pretend it didn't happen.

Boy B may be as guilty as hell. He may not. But his conviction clearly is not strong.

Strazdas · 19-06-2019 12:58AM

Hoboo wrote: »

Completely agree with you, no doubt he lured her there and he had to have known it was for something sinister. But the evidence to prove he knew Boy A intended to murder her is very weak. Which means there's doubt.

But look, I haven't seen interview tapes or anything, just going on the IT report and other media, so like most, it's just an unqualified opinion.

The prosecution may be taking the view that if he believed A was 'merely' going to sexually assault or harass Ana, he had ample opportunity to confess to this and say "Look, things got totally out of hand". It was the lack of a confession and lack of remorse that landed him up on a murder charge.

19-06-2019 12:59AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We know they discussed killing Ana.

No they didn't. Boy A stated he'd kill her. Boy B didn't take it seriously. As I wouldn't have had my friend said that at 13. I remember pals saying they'd like to kill parents, teachers, etc. All bluster. Fortunately none of us ever got caught up in a situation where someone carried through with it. Nor anyone in the country up to now.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 12:59AM

Hoboo wrote: »

But the evidence to prove he knew Boy A intended to murder her is very weak.

It's actually very strong.

Nerdlingr · 19-06-2019 01:00AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Only placed at the crime scene by his own testimony. How long was he there and what role? Did he egg Boy A on or freeze when he saw what was happening then run?

He could have given him builder's tape for any amount of innocent reasons. School project or repair of some item at home. Or fully aware what it would eventually be used for.

Only evidence of the conversation in which Boy A said he'd like to kill Ana is from Boy B. And he dismissed it at the time. He could have not mentioned it and could be at home this evening.

I don't doubt that the Gardai questioning was done properly. Too much to lose if it hadn't been. But I don't believe this case against Boy B is proven and think he will be freed on Appeal.

It's doesn't matter he was "only" placed at the crime scene by his own testimony. The FACT is he placed himself there. "Only" doesn't come into it. He admitted to being there.

He could have said nothing and rightly as you say be home having his dinner now and playing with his Lego. He's not. Thankfully he talked and lied himself into a murder conviction. Mention of the foreknowledge conversation got him locked up.

The tape could have been used for anything . Except it wasn't. It was used to attack Ana. Unfortunate for Boy B eh.

I can't see him being freed at all. None of your grounds for him walking free stand up. And the case for conviction has been proven. He was just found guilty of her murder today .

19-06-2019 01:00AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How strong are 13 yr old boys? Girls mature earlier. I know i was pretty strong at 13 ...as a girl i think i could fight for my life. But TWO 13 yr old boys ...??

And boy b had injuries. So how did he get them???

Boy B had no injuries.

No DNA link between Boy B and Ana either.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 01:01AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

No they didn't. Boy A stated he'd kill her. Boy B didn't take it seriously.

Yes he did. They discussed what else they would do too.

You don't think boy b asked why the **** i have to walk to this chicks house then 3 K to this house that i know every detail of.

They planned everything.

19-06-2019 01:01AM

brooke 2 wrote: »

I would be concerned about the few other names, beside A's and B's, that were in Boy B's copybook which contained details of their 'satanic cult'. Horrifying to think there could be other schoolmates out there with the same mindset as these two murderers.

My pals played with ouija boards. Pals also listened to metal and were into satanic stuff as teenagers. They're all mild accountants or IT guys these days.

Hoboo · 19-06-2019 01:03AM

Strazdas wrote: »

The prosecution may be taking the view that if he believed A was 'merely' going to sexually assault or harass Ana, he had ample opportunity to confess to this and say "Look, things got totally out of hand". It was the lack of a confession and lack of remorse that landed him up on a murder charge.

Again I can't disagree. Does that prove beyond reasonable doubt he knew she was going to be murdered? I dont think so.

Nerdlingr · 19-06-2019 01:03AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

We know they discussed killing Ana.

We know they discussed killing her.
But what I said was we do not know if they discussed a plan to kill her.
Small difference.

19-06-2019 01:03AM

Strazdas wrote: »

The prosecution may be taking the view that if he believed A was 'merely' going to sexually assault or harass Ana, he had ample opportunity to confess to this and say "Look, things got totally out of hand". It was the lack of a confession and lack of remorse that landed him up on a murder charge.

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

Gadgetman496 · 19-06-2019 01:04AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

My pals played with ouija boards. Pals also listened to metal and were into satanic stuff as teenagers. They're all mild accountants or IT guys these days.

See what you can achieve if you don't go around murdering people...

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 01:04AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Boy B had no injuries.

No DNA link between Boy B and Ana either.

He admitted touching her.

19-06-2019 01:05AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's actually very strong.

We'll agree to disagree. Gardai didn't think so and will be very relieved with the conviction. We'll revisit this after the appeal in 18 months. Time for bed. All the best.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 01:05AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

That would have made things worse for him.

Also he 'lost' his phone several times.

Hoboo · 19-06-2019 01:06AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It's actually very strong.

I can't see how it is. Maybe I'm missing the part where it was proven beyond doubt boy B knew Boy A planned to kill her. I just can't see it.

19-06-2019 01:07AM

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

He admitted touching her.

Again no DNA.

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 01:07AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Again, 'luring' implies knowledge of a crime about to happen. Possibly aware, possibly not.
He may not. But his conviction clearly is not strong.

I disagree. I think it depends on your perception ...The judge was female no?

ILoveYourVibes · 19-06-2019 01:08AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Again no DNA.

EXACTLY!

He touched her NO DNA FOUND. But he did. You don't get DNA every time you assault someone.

Nerdlingr · 19-06-2019 01:08AM

Seathrun66 wrote: »

Yep. If he is innocent and could have come clean at first then he's blown it. Had there been a responsible adult there in the interview room instead of his mother would he have been more forthcoming and less embarrassed about sexual stuff?

More forthcoming? This is the same kid that described her as a "slut" and commented on her being developed and more advanced that other kids her age. (Breasts, hips etc). All in front of his mother.

Ana Kriegel - Boys A & B found guilty [Mod: Do NOT post identifying information]

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