Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 03:21PM

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ice-bakkt-crypto/bakkt-says-bitcoin-futures-testing-to-begin-in-july-idUSKCN1TE2GR

Not long now.

They're still waiting on regulatory approval. Could take an age yet. Still positive that they're testing though - just that we'll have to be patient on that.

JohnnyFlash · 14-06-2019 06:15PM

How is a centralised coin ran by a company with a terrible privacy record seen as a win for crypto?

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 06:21PM

435 posts in this crypto sub forum and never once an acknowledgement of one positive facet of cryptocurrency or blockchain tech. Under any other circumstances, it could well be a question worth answering.

Dohnjoe · 14-06-2019 06:39PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

How is a centralised coin ran by a company with a terrible privacy record seen as a win for crypto?

Most crypto sentiment seems to be highly suspicious of it.

Personally I tihnk it could boost the value of my crypto holdings by potentially being a gateway for a significant, so far untouched, portion of the public

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 06:52PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

435 posts in this crypto sub forum and never once an acknowledgement of one positive facet of cryptocurrency or blockchain tech. Under any other circumstances, it could well be a question worth answering.

yeah but blockchain, the only valuable thing about bitcoin, is already being used or planned to be used all over the shop, so bitcoin and other cryptocurrency have no market or financial hold over the most useful part of the tech.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 06:58PM

Nobelium wrote: »

yeah but blockchain, the only valuable thing about bitcoin, is already being used or planned to be used all over the shop, so bitcoin and other cryptocurrency have no market or financial hold over the most useful part of the tech.

I'm not sure what your point is given the context of my post and what (who) it was intended to address.

You running with the Bitcoin BAD, blockchain GOOD mantra that the banks first peddled? If you don't see any innovation in borderless, unconfiscatable, censorship resistant, decentralised digital money, that's your view I guess. However, I do see tremendous value in it.

grindle · 14-06-2019 07:00PM

Nobelium wrote: »

but blockchain, the only valuable thing about bitcoin, is already being used or planned to be used all over the shop, so bitcoin and other cryptocurrency have no market or financial hold over the most useful part of the tech.

If you don't know why the public-facing side of blockchain is the most important part of blockchain, you haven't read up on this enough. If they want a private blockchain without publishing onto a public chain at any point they're wasting money that could rent a database for 100x the time period.

"But if the company owns the blockchain it's trustworthy, magically!"

No.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:07PM

grindle wrote: »

If you don't know why the public-facing side of blockchain is the most important part of blockchain, you haven't read up on this enough. If they want a private blockchain without publishing onto a public chain at any point they're wasting money that could rent a database for 100x the time period.

"But if the company owns the blockchain it's trustworthy, magically!"

No.

If don't know blockchain is not going to be exclusive to bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and they have no intrinsic value, you can kiss your money goodbye.

paleoperson · 14-06-2019 07:14PM

Addison Fancy Macrame wrote: »

As per title, have we reached the bottom ?

Don't think we'll see the likes of $3200 ever again.

$5150 at time of posting.

Back in the mainstream media once more.

Don't think we'll see $20,000 ever again either.

Bitcoin, like all cryptocurrencies, are inherently stupid.

They produce nothing of value, just a lot of people constantly looking at numbers going in random directions like gamblers.

At best a waste of time.

grindle · 14-06-2019 07:15PM

Nobelium wrote: »

If don't know blockchain is not going to be exclusive to bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and they have no intrinsic value, you can kiss your money goodbye.

Tell me why outside sources should trust any one company's blockchain my love.

"No, I will post a few more times making no sense whilst skirting around that issue thank you very much!"

Okay.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:17PM

Nobelium wrote: »

If don't know blockchain is not going to be exclusive to bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and they have no intrinsic value, you can kiss your money goodbye.

The 'intrinsic value' argument. Been done to death but here we go...
- The paper/cotton/hideous assortment of bacteria in your wallet you call FIAT currency - what gives that value? Isn't it just a piece of paper? You'll think the suggestion is absurd, no doubt. However, FIAT currencies fail all the time.

The ability to custody your own money - doesn't that have value? Again, you'll think whats the beef? Around the world, peoples money is simply taken off them - either through banks going bust due to mismanagement or through governments going bust through mismanagement. You'll say that doesn't happen here right? So western europe and the U.S. may be more stable but that doesnt mean it cant or hasnt happened. It happened in cryprus and greece. We came within a hairs breath of it. And then on a second sweep we came within a hairs breath of it again....only Noonan decided to raid our pensions instead (after reads of re-inforcing the message to irish society the importance of a pension!).

Secondly, does Gold have value? How does it have value? What calculation do you carry out to assess its value? Now, some will say but shur gold has industrial use cases. It does - but the reality is that the vast majority of its use case is as a store of value. Its the store of value aspect that determines the price. Peoples belief in it determines the price.

Bitcoin has had a value for 10 years. It will have a value in 10 years time.

By the way, when we revisit the euro project shambles and we have to go back to the irish punt, you might want to convert to bitcoin round that time - or else watch your savings devalue.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:19PM

grindle wrote: »

Tell me why outside sources should trust any one company's blockchain my love.

"No, I will post a few more times making no sense whilst skirting around that issue thank you very much!"

Okay.

I'm not your love, bro, pal or anything else.

Because the companies themselves will have to share it to trust their inter firm transactions.

They don't need bitcoin pet. No one does.

paleoperson · 14-06-2019 07:24PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

The 'intrinsic value' argument. Been done to death but here we go...

It hasn't been done to death as it's an inherent flaw of bitcoin. As long as bitcoin exists it'll be the flaw. It's not magically going away. Do you think people are just going to stop complaining about it some day, they'll say "enough of that now"? When people are acting greedy others call them out.

makeorbrake wrote: »

The 'intrinsic value' argument. Been done to death but here we go...

- The paper/cotton/hideous assortment of bacteria in your wallet you call FIAT currency - what gives that value? Isn't it just a piece of paper? You'll think the suggestion is absurd, no doubt. However, FIAT currencies fail all the time.[/quote]

I don't think that suggestion is absurd at all and neither would anyone else who is anti-bitcoin. Why would you think that? You clearly don't understand the issue at all. The issue isn't just volatility (though that is one part), it's about general uselessness and lack of any democratic control of it.

As a word of advice in general, don't say "no doubt" about things where there's the slightest doubt. Because I guarantee you not a SINGLE person here thinks that's an absurd argument.

The ability to custody your own money - doesn't that have value? Again, you'll think whats the beef? Around the world, peoples money is simply taken off them - either through banks going bust due to mismanagement or through governments going bust through mismanagement. You'll say that doesn't happen here right? So western europe and the U.S. may be more stable but that doesnt mean it cant or hasnt happened. It happened in cryprus and greece. We came within a hairs breath of it. And then on a second sweep we came within a hairs breath of it again....only Noonan decided to raid our pensions instead (after reads of re-inforcing the message to irish society the importance of a pension!).

Sorry this is below the standard of discussion I can stoop to. Nonsense. "the ability to custody your own money", are you legit a real poster?

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:25PM

Nobelium wrote: »

They don't need bitcoin pet. No one does.

So you can't see any redeeming qualities in decentralised digital currency? Seems to me that you simply don't understand the proposition.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:27PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

So you can't see any redeeming qualities in decentralised digital currency? Seems to me that you simply don't understand the proposition.

It doesn't have to be bitcoin. Seems you don't understand that.

grindle · 14-06-2019 07:29PM

Nobelium wrote: »

I'm not your love, bro, pal or anything else.

Because the companies themselves will have to share it to trust their inter firm transactions.

They don't need bitcoin pet. No one does.

I don't want anybody to need bitcoin, my most beloved. People who want or need Bitcoin for whatever reason (I have no idea why they'd want it, you're presuming a lot about me) will use it.

If anybody wants or needs to use a public blockchain, they'll use it. For anybody to trust a transaction (even between companies) public makes better sense.

Hope you get well soon, xx.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:30PM

Nobelium wrote: »

It doesn't have to be bitcoin. Seems you don't understand that.

Well, perhaps you can enlighten us a bit more. You're a bit scant on detail there, fella.

It doesn't have to be Bitcoin for what purpose? And if it's not Bitcoin, what should it be?

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:31PM

grindle wrote: »

I don't want anybody to need bitcoin, my most beloved. People who want or need Bitcoin for whatever reason (I have no idea why they'd want it, you're presuming a lot about me) will use it.

If anybody wants or needs to use a public blockchain, they'll use it. For anybody to trust a transaction (even between companies) public makes better sense.

Hope you get well soon, xx.

Your ad homiem fallacy, and therefore lack of any decent argument . . says it all

Dohnjoe · 14-06-2019 07:31PM

paleoperson wrote: »

Don't think we'll see $20,000 ever again either.

Bitcoin, like all cryptocurrencies, are inherently stupid.

They produce nothing of value, just a lot of people constantly looking at numbers going in random directions like gamblers.

At best a waste of time.

Indeed, but people sent it to $20,000

Perhaps cryptos are stupid, but it's very apparent there is a big demand to speculate/gamble on them. Logically casinos don't make much sense either, but people continue to flood into them

Maybe it will all crash to dust, or perhaps the value of cryptos, like BTC, will just keep (on aggregate) rising as they have for the last 8 years

If you personally believe that BTC is going to zero - likewise there's a market for that.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:32PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

Well, perhaps you can enlighten us a bit more. You're a bit scant on detail there, fella.

It doesn't have to be Bitcoin for what purpose? And if it's not Bitcoin, what should it be?

you do understand that blockchain technology can be used by anything other process that wants to ? There's endless uses, and none of them will require bitcoin.

q85dw7osi4lebg · 14-06-2019 07:36PM

paleoperson wrote: »

Don't think we'll see $20,000 ever again either.

Bitcoin, like all cryptocurrencies, are inherently stupid.

They produce nothing of value, just a lot of people constantly looking at numbers going in random directions like gamblers.

At best a waste of time.

Possibly a waste of time for you but bitcoin profit has paid my car insurance for the year, a week in Ibiza in May, and a week in Croatia in August. It's very hard to argue the hard facts that a lot of us in here are making good money off it.

We can pretend it's only Blockchain we are interested in but let's be honest good money has been made and will continue to be as the bulk run commences.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:37PM

Nobelium wrote: »

you do understand that blockchain technology can be used by anything other process that wants to ? There's endless uses, and none of them will require bitcoin.

Once again, you're quite short on detail, buddy. Blockchain technology can be used for all manner of use cases - beyond the digital money use case.

If you are discussing Bitcoin, for the most part (there are exceptions), it's assumed you're talking about the digital money and store of value use cases. So in the context of digital money/store of value, if it doesn't have to be Bitcoin, what should it be?

(and ironically, the guy you're arguing with a couple of posts above agrees with you on that).

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:47PM

paleoperson wrote: »

It hasn't been done to death as it's an inherent flaw of bitcoin. As long as bitcoin exists it'll be the flaw. It's not magically going away. Do you think people are just going to stop complaining about it some day, they'll say "enough of that now"? When people are acting greedy others call them out.

Ok, so there is rampant speculation in cryptocurrency. If that's what you're saying, then I agree 100%. Whilst some may get over exuberant, is there also a logic to their belief that the price of certain cryptocurrencies has the potential to climb? In my view, there is.

If you're asking me do I believe that over time, people will come to realise that cryptocurrency is a legitimate digital money, I certainly do. The speculation aspect is a side show.

paleoperson wrote: »

-I don't think that suggestion is absurd at all and neither would anyone else who is anti-bitcoin. Why would you think that? You clearly don't understand the issue at all. The issue isn't just volatility (though that is one part), it's about general uselessness and lack of any democratic control of it.

As a word of advice in general, don't say "no doubt" about things where there's the slightest doubt. Because I guarantee you not a SINGLE person here thinks that's an absurd argument.

And respectfully, as a 'word of advice', you need to take a little bit more time with your postings. You've quoted the same tract of text as before. I have no earthly idea of what point you are trying to make here. By all means, revise and repost - and if I understand the point you're making, I'm more than happy to discuss it.

paleoperson wrote: »

Sorry this is below the standard of discussion I can stoop to. Nonsense. "the ability to custody your own money", are you legit a real poster?

I guess you don't understand what it is to custody your own money or the implications of that? I mean, I can try to explain it to you if you ask nicely. Otherwise, I'm not getting a warm, fuzzy feeling about being so altruistic about that with you at this point.

stockshares · 14-06-2019 07:49PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

The 'intrinsic value' argument. Been done to death but here we go...
- The paper/cotton/hideous assortment of bacteria in your wallet you call FIAT currency - what gives that value? Isn't it just a piece of paper? You'll think the suggestion is absurd, no doubt. However, FIAT currencies fail all the time.

The ability to custody your own money - doesn't that have value? Again, you'll think whats the beef? Around the world, peoples money is simply taken off them - either through banks going bust due to mismanagement or through governments going bust through mismanagement. You'll say that doesn't happen here right? So western europe and the U.S. may be more stable but that doesnt mean it cant or hasnt happened. It happened in cryprus and greece. We came within a hairs breath of it. And then on a second sweep we came within a hairs breath of it again....only Noonan decided to raid our pensions instead (after reads of re-inforcing the message to irish society the importance of a pension!).

Secondly, does Gold have value? How does it have value? What calculation do you carry out to assess its value? Now, some will say but shur gold has industrial use cases. It does - but the reality is that the vast majority of its use case is as a store of value. Its the store of value aspect that determines the price. Peoples belief in it determines the price.

Bitcoin has had a value for 10 years. It will have a value in 10 years time.

By the way, when we revisit the euro project shambles and we have to go back to the irish punt, you might want to convert to bitcoin round that time - or else watch your savings devalue.

My problem with BTC and other Coins is not their Value but how they can be secured and how hard they are to access.

It's great that people can have custody of their own money but they must be able to access and secure it. I think these are the things that will prevent mass adoption.

Think of what's happening in Venezuela. Their Currency(Bolivar) is worthless. Crypto is a solution for some but not all can access it and if they can how do they secure it in a lawless society.

Nobelium · 14-06-2019 07:54PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

Once again, you're quite short on detail, buddy. Blockchain technology can be used for all manner of use cases - beyond the digital money use case.

If you are discussing Bitcoin, for the most part (there are exceptions), it's assumed you're talking about the digital money and store of value use cases. So in the context of digital money/store of value, if it doesn't have to be Bitcoin, what should it be?

(and ironically, the guy you're arguing with a couple of posts above agrees with you on that).

I'm not your buddy, or any other sneering ad homien you can think of, and bitcoin, or any other crypto-currency does not have a monopoly on blockchain tech. No one is going to be tied to using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency. Simple as. Deal with it.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 07:57PM

stockshares wrote: »

My problem with BTC and other Coins is not their Value but how they can be secured and how hard they are to access.

It's great that people can have custody of their own money but they must be able to access and secure it. I think these are the things that will prevent mass adoption.

Agree completely. Rome wasn't built in a day. Crypto's like BTC were built by geeks. We need some Steve Jobs like innovation to make crypto more user friendly. No question.

Dohnjoe · 14-06-2019 08:02PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

Agree completely. Rome wasn't built in a day. Crypto's like BTC were built by geeks. We need some Steve Jobs like innovation to make crypto more user friendly. No question.

Or Zuckerberg..

Sorry couldn't resist

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 08:03PM

Nobelium wrote: »

I'm not your buddy, or any other sneering ad homien you can think of, and bitcoin, or any other crypto-currency does not have a monopoly on blockchain tech. No one is going to be tied to using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency. Simple as. Deal with it.

Take some deep breaths, (I was going to add 'my friend' but I guess I better not lest it be misinterpreted). You're coming across a tad aggressive.

I never suggested for a second that Bitcoin had a monopoly on blockchain technology. Blockchain technology is broad - and cuts through more use cases in more industries than we even know about yet.

What should be used then in the stead of Bitcoin (or any other coin that is pointed towards the use case of digital money and/or store of value)?

grindle · 14-06-2019 08:04PM

Nobelium wrote: »

No one is going to be tied to using bitcoin or any cryptocurrency. Simple as. Deal with it.

Tell us what the value proposition is for a closed-source eternally private chain.

Explain in detail. Sweetheart.

makeorbrake · 14-06-2019 08:04PM

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Or Zuckerberg..

Sorry couldn't resist

I'm not a fan of FB or the FB organisation but I too believe that if they can get some traction on it, the FB coin could have positive knock on for 'real' crypto.

Is anyone else starting to become a bit excited?

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