RTB Adjudication

Jade2015 · 11-06-2019 2:52pm #1

Had a hearing last week a tenant who is in rent arrears and some other issues.
Does anyone know how long it takes before you hear the adjudication or determination order. I contacted the RTB chat and they said they cant give an indication timeframe. So I've no idea if it will be days/weeks or even months

godtabh · 11-06-2019 2:53pm

Months

Jade2015 · 11-06-2019 2:57pm

Baby01032012 · 11-06-2019 6:16pm

Adjudication or determination.

If only at adjudication about 2 months or so. With tenants right to appeal of 21 days after that. If they appeal and go to determination could be another 3-4months before hearing.

My name is Mud · 11-06-2019 8:49pm

I (landlord) had an adjudication heard on the 23rd May, for overholding by the tenant.

Received determination (in my favour) on 10th June.

So 3 weeks in my case, but was initially advised by my agent it would usually be 6-8 weeks

Spanish Eyes · 11-06-2019 9:05pm

My name is Mud wrote: »

I (landlord) had an adjudication heard on the 23rd May, for overholding by the tenant.

Received determination (in my favour) on 10th June.

So 3 weeks in my case, but was initially advised by my agent it would usually be 6-8 weeks

Could I ask when you applied for Adjudication?

Did the tenant leave or appeal on the determination order?

My name is Mud · 11-06-2019 9:43pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Could I ask when you applied for Adjudication?

Did the tenant leave or appeal on the determination order?

Application for adjudication was 23rd April, so was a 1 month waiting time for the hearing.

I think my case is pretty clear cut, as it’s just an overholding case. The tenant has no real grounds for appeal, as the facts found as part of the determination are very black and white i.e notice is valid, no rent arrears etc.

I’m hoping the tenant does not appeal (has 10 working days to do so), but if he does he has to cough up €100 in the first instance to lodge an appeal.

In reality, as it’s a clear cut case (from the determination order facts in the report) I don’t think the board would grant an appeal if he applied. But saying that, the RTB is a civil servant cushy number, so who knows.

Spanish Eyes · 11-06-2019 9:53pm

My name is Mud wrote: »

Application for adjudication was 23rd April, so was a 1 month waiting time for the hearing.

I think my case is pretty clear cut, as it’s just an overholding case. The tenant has no real grounds for appeal, as the facts found as part of the determination are very black and white i.e notice is valid, no rent arrears etc.

I’m hoping the tenant does not appeal (has 10 working days to do so), but if he does he has to cough up €100 in the first instance to lodge an appeal.

In reality, as it’s a clear cut case (from the determination order facts in the report) I don’t think the board would grant an appeal if he applied. But saying that, the RTB is a civil servant cushy number, so who knows.

Thank you for the information. Have applied for adjudication last week for overholding and just wondered.

I am not a landlord, this is a deceased relative's house that was rented out, and I am executor. Tenant has been advised by the council to sit it out and overhold. RAS tenant. Honestly!

We shall see what happens.

Can I ask where the hearings take place? thanks. I am a bit concerned about all this. But I suppose it is a process.

My name is Mud · 11-06-2019 10:01pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Can I ask where the hearings take place? thanks. I am a bit concerned about all this. But I suppose it is a process.

I didn’t attend, my agent did on my behalf. I wasn’t bothered attending to be honest as this overholding has stressed me out, as am an accidental landlord selling up.

It took place in the RTB office in D’Olier street. I think they have regional locations if you are not in Dublin.

And the council advising a tenant to overhold seems the norm these days. Even if you aren’t the landlord, society will label you as the greedy grubby landlord inflicting hardship on the downtrodden tenant.

4ensic15 · 11-06-2019 10:13pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Adjudication or determination.

If only at adjudication about 2 months or so. With tenants right to appeal of 21 days after that. If they appeal and go to determination could be another 3-4months before hearing.

It is 10 days for an appeal.

Spanish Eyes · 11-06-2019 10:45pm

My name is Mud wrote: »

I didn’t attend, my agent did on my behalf. I wasn’t bothered attending to be honest as this overholding has stressed me out, as am an accidental landlord selling up.

It took place in the RTB office in D’Olier street. I think they have regional locations if you are not in Dublin.

And the council advising a tenant to overhold seems the norm these days. Even if you aren’t the landlord, society will label you as the greedy grubby landlord inflicting hardship on the downtrodden tenant.

Wonder what will happen if tenant stays put because Council says to do so even after determination. God this is a pain. I have beneficiaries nipping at my heels to get the house sold and get their money. I cannot blame them at all, but the system is a bit off. Well depending on what side you are on I suppose!

Anyway, thank you for the heads up, I appreciate it.

GGTrek · 11-06-2019 11:15pm

My name is Mud wrote: »

Application for adjudication was 23rd April, so was a 1 month waiting time for the hearing.

I think my case is pretty clear cut, as it’s just an overholding case. The tenant has no real grounds for appeal, as the facts found as part of the determination are very black and white i.e notice is valid, no rent arrears etc.

I’m hoping the tenant does not appeal (has 10 working days to do so), but if he does he has to cough up €100 in the first instance to lodge an appeal.

In reality, as it’s a clear cut case (from the determination order facts in the report) I don’t think the board would grant an appeal if he applied. But saying that, the RTB is a civil servant cushy number, so who knows.

3 weeks is usally the time to get the draft determination order issued by the adjudicator and sent by email, the one the counts is when it is signed by one of the directors of the RTB (i.e. the publication) and sent by post.
W.r.t. the appeal there is no need to have "grounds for appeal", if the appellant pays 100 eur and presents the request to the RTB the appeal is granted without examining the grounds (this is for the Tribunal to do after 3 to 6 months when they convene). The system is screwed and it is getting worse for landlords after the last anti-landlords Amendments to the RTA from Murphy and ALL the politicians in the Oireachtas (except a couple of senators who had a clear understanding).

utmbuilder · 12-06-2019 1:54am

I've been to many, typically about 6 weeks after the Adjudication the determination order will come. As mentioned above they have 21 days to appeal,

If they showed up to the adjudication its 70/30 they probably will be smart enough to appeal, if that happens, about 2 months after the 21 days you will get a tribunal hearing, will take another 6 weeks to get the determination of that.

If your in luck they should do a leggier after the tribunal determination order by October.

If they bunker down, I'm sorry to say it could be a 12 to 18 month ordeal trying to get the courts to get them out.

Do you know if they are planning to leave? It's a nightmare will be one of the most stressful parts of your life.

If you even had anyone impartial who could be really friendly to work out at deal with them. Systems a joke.

They can always appeal, besides that a RTB order is toliet paper unless enforced by the courts, and they move even slower.

My name is Mud · 12-06-2019 6:37am

GGTrek wrote: »

3 weeks is usally the time to get the draft determination order issued by the adjudicator and sent by email, the one the counts is when it is signed by one of the directors of the RTB (i.e. the publication) and sent by post.
W.r.t. the appeal there is no need to have "grounds for appeal", if the appellant pays 100 eur and presents the request to the RTB the appeal is granted without examining the grounds (this is for the Tribunal to do after 3 to 6 months when they convene). The system is screwed and it is getting worse for landlords after the last anti-landlords Amendments to the RTA from Murphy and ALL the politicians in the Oireachtas (except a couple of senators who had a clear understanding).

Ah you are right. My agent has the draft determination signed by the adjudicator, which has findings of fact and the determination wording. This was in the 3 weeks since the hearing.

However, the wording on the separate appeals document says “if accepted by the board, will go to tribunal”, so it’s my understanding that they look at the findings of fact in the draft determination and assess if an appeal is warranted, should an appeal against the draft determination be requested.

4ensic15 · 12-06-2019 7:16pm

My name is Mud wrote: »

Ah you are right. My agent has the draft determination signed by the adjudicator, which has findings of fact and the determination wording. This was in the 3 weeks since the hearing.

However, the wording on the separate appeals document says “if accepted by the board, will go to tribunal”, so it’s my understanding that they look at the findings of fact in the draft determination and assess if an appeal is warranted, should an appeal against the draft determination be requested.

The phrase "if accepted by the Board" refers to procedural matters such as the fee is paid, the appeal is in time etc. If the paperwork is in order there will be an appeal and it is a full re-hearing. The adjudicators report is not analysed.

Jade2015 · 12-06-2019 7:33pm

Thanks for all the replies and info. It's a minefield. I dont know if the tennents are planning to leave, as I think they initially were but now one of them has lost their job so i think both are on social welfare now. Maybe I'll do a deal with then as so far it's a few months rent and I dont want it to cost much more financially or stress wise.

utmbuilder · 13-06-2019 2:33am

Sounds like your in a good state of mind , approaching them don't be afraid to tell them you simply can't afford the mortgage anymore.

My name is Mud · 13-06-2019 7:41am

4ensic15 wrote: »

The phrase "if accepted by the Board" refers to procedural matters such as the fee is paid, the appeal is in time etc. If the paperwork is in order there will be an appeal and it is a full re-hearing. The adjudicators report is not analysed.

I’ll let you know what happens on this, as the form for appeal has a section on ‘grounds for appeal’ as well as the ‘if accepted’ wording in the letter.

I would hope the RTB has at least a shred of common sense before taking on every single appeal request?

I mean, if I was appealing and I wrote in ‘spaghetti hoops’ as grounds for appeal, would they still take it on?

http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/appeal-application-forms-march-2016/rtb_appeal_form.pdf?sfvrsn=2

utmbuilder · 16-06-2019 3:15am

A judge during the week was in the press slamming the rtb for taken the appeal fee and not contacting the tennent with a hearing date

Baby01032012 · 17-06-2019 8:01am

My name is Mud wrote: »

I’ll let you know what happens on this, as the form for appeal has a section on ‘grounds for appeal’ as well as the ‘if accepted’ wording in the letter.

I would hope the RTB has at least a shred of common sense before taking on every single appeal request?

I mean, if I was appealing and I wrote in ‘spaghetti hoops’ as grounds for appeal, would they still take it on?

http://www.rtb.ie/docs/default-source/appeal-application-forms-march-2016/rtb_appeal_form.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Well yes if you wrote that you are Mickey Mouse I doubt they would accept that but in reality the RTB will accept any appeal 100% of the time as they fear it ultimately being appealed to the high court and loosing on basis that they didn’t give due process.

I had tenants operating a brothel as evidenced by the gardai overholding and not paying rent. They didn’t turn up to the adjudication and gave no reason. On day 21 of the 21 days to appeal they appealed on basis that they didn’t attend adjudication as they had doctors appointment. Appeal was allowed which delayed the process by another 2 months and then they didn’t turn up to the tribunal either.

slystallone · 07-06-2022 9:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/110413157#Comment_110413157

Where did the adjudication take place?

RTB Adjudication

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