How is a man supposed to find a woman in the 21st century

Church on Tuesday · 05-06-2019 01:21PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

It absolutely is, where else would someone use terms like "buyer/seller frame"?

I don't use that terminology.

It's about building up attraction, not a transaction.

Plopsu · 05-06-2019 01:22PM

Plopsu wrote: »

Wow, how did you read that with me on ignore? Gasp, maybe the site is broken.
I have contributed to the thread. I can see your other discussions and they're about the same standard as the one you've had (are still having, actually, even with me on ignore) with me.

So, let's see... you've done personal abuse, "stop replying to me" and "I'm putting you on ignore". Look forward to your next reply.

Of course, the next reply was a PM, so Kiki could pretend she didn't reply :pac:

Anyway, back to the thread.

Deebles McBeebles · 05-06-2019 01:47PM

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I don't use that terminology.

It's about building up attraction, not a transaction.

I was referring to the poster you were agreeing with using that terminology, not you.

I think his idea of it was pure transaction but alas we will never know now!

Zorya · 05-06-2019 01:52PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

but alas we will never know now!

In this particular case I think we can rest assured that indeed some day we will know.

Deebles McBeebles · 05-06-2019 01:53PM

Zorya wrote: »

In this particular case I think we can rest assured that indeed some day we will know.

True, be on the look out for RogerRafa12.

Church on Tuesday · 05-06-2019 02:01PM

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

True, be on the look out for RogerRafa12.

He'll be back tomorrow under yet another new account I'm sure.

There's been about five of them so far on this thread.

wyf437gn6btzue · 05-06-2019 02:19PM

pawdee wrote: »

It's very simple really. If you're

Nice
Handsome
Tall
Rich
Fit
Intelligent
Well read
Cultured
Articulate
Funny
Considerate
Driving a nice (but not too flash) car
Well dressed
Smell nice
A good cook
Good with your hands
Living in a nice house / apartment (in a nice area)

you'll have no trouble "finding a woman". Tick all of the above boxes and you'll be baytin' them away with a sh***y stick.

You went to such effort to write a list and left out the bit of having a massive dong :rolleyes:

mdk_kdm · 05-06-2019 02:29PM

I don't have any friends (apart from one who lives abroad) so have zero social circle. The only reason to leave my house is to get provisions or walk / exercise.

The concept of joining a club or group of some kind is not appealing. Something about it reeks of desperation.

I've been on dating apps / sites for years and never got to the point of meeting up with someone. The idea of a date is so weird. The concept seems so contrived.

I'm all out of ideas.

Good jib! · 05-06-2019 02:32PM

@mdk kdm

If you're not too far from one, try a Parkrun. You don't have to become a member of anything, no-one will find you strange, and if you go reasonably regularly you'll get to know people. Especially if you volunteer a few times.

05-06-2019 02:38PM

mdk_kdm wrote: »

The concept of joining a club or group of some kind is not appealing. Something about it reeks of desperation.

If you are joining such a club solely with the agenda of meeting people - finding love - or getting sex then yes I can imagine why a smack of desperation might be left in your mouth.

But if you are joining those clubs because social versions of your hobby better you as a person - and you realise finding love, friendship or sex might be a consequence of doing this - then I think there is less cause for that taste to be left in your mouth.

For example 1 - I train at various forms of combat and non-combative martial arts. Mostly BJJ and Capoeira but others too. I can do this alone. And I do. But I realise if I really want to excel at it and improve and learn then the social version of my hobby - that of learning with and sparring with others - is necessary. So I joined clubs.

And yes as a consequence of that I have made good friends. Although this was never the original intention.

For example 2 - I love music and live music. I listen to it and enjoy it and get all these thoughts about possible meanings of the lyrics. I realise my enjoyment of that is accentuated if I have people to share those experiences and ideas with. So I started groups to meet up before and after certain gigs. Like I went to "the Frames" website and on their message board said "I will be in The Foggy Dew for a couple of pints before tonights gig - if you're going come along" and they did. And we got to share our ideas and experience about the music and the lyrics.

And yes as a consequence of that I met two stunning girls who I have now been in an 11 year relationship with. Although this was never the original intention.

Tldr - The level of desperation is likely dependent on your original intention in joining the club or group in the first place. Seek to better yourself and your own hobbies by exploring social versions of them. Romance and friendships - they will happen along the way without intention or desperation.

As I said before there is a difference between walking a path in life towards making friends and romances - and walking a path in life along which friends and romances occur.

mdk_kdm wrote: »

I've been on dating apps / sites for years and never got to the point of meeting up with someone. The idea of a date is so weird. The concept seems so contrived. I'm all out of ideas.

I can meet you a little on that one I think.

I think if my relationship ever broke down I would never seek a new one. Been there done that. If I did however I think I would agree with you that a date seems weird and contrived. I think if there was a gal I was interested in I would be more inclined to find a night when I am out with my mates - she is out with hers - and suggest the two groups cross paths somewhere.

Or like the user above who suggested Park Run. If I saw a girl at park run I was into I would probably find out what other runs she does and ask her could I come along to one and build up a relationship with her in the environment where I first met her. Rather than saying "hi you - wanna meet me somewhere for dinner alone sometime???".

The idea of a 1:1 meeting up front feels more like a job interview in my head than a social interaction.

That said if it was the only option I would not actively avoid it either.

Carnut2015 wrote: »

You went to such effort to write a list and left out the bit of having a massive dong :rolleyes:

Thank F that was never a requirement for me! I am decidedly average

Sawduck · 05-06-2019 02:43PM

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I know lots of people who met there partners around 30. I’ve been single for ages but I don’t take this attitude at all.

And any time a fella has offered to buy me a drink or for my phone number on a night out, I’ve been flattered and delighted even if I wasn’t interested.

What’s awkward about it?

Its awkward if the woman yells at the man because she says she has a boyfriend or the womans friend butts in and tells you to get lost or the woman simply ignores you,these have all happened to me this year alone. The only time recently I got chatting with a woman who was friendly and gave me the time of day was with an English woman who was living in Dublin

CrankyHaus · 05-06-2019 02:45PM

mdk_kdm wrote: »

I don't have any friends (apart from one who lives abroad) so have zero social circle. The only reason to leave my house is to get provisions or walk / exercise.

The concept of joining a club or group of some kind is not appealing. Something about it reeks of desperation.

I've been on dating apps / sites for years and never got to the point of meeting up with someone. The idea of a date is so weird. The concept seems so contrived.

I'm all out of ideas.

If you like walking or exercise join a group doing it: like a hillwalking group or something. You'll likely have some craic, expand your social circle and maybe meet someone. There's nothing desperate about participating in a shared activity you enjoy. Obviously the stuff about doing Samba or Swing Dancing seems a bit try-hard particularly if it's not your thing. Anyway, something you would feel engaged in and perform well at would show you in the best light to anyone you'd want to get to know better.

If you're not bothered fair enough. I'm often happy with my own company too. But it is ultimately your own choice and you can't complain about zero social circle and never meeting people if that's what you choose.

05-06-2019 02:50PM

Sawduck wrote: »

The only time recently I got chatting with a woman who was friendly and gave me the time of day was with an English woman who was living in Dublin

You're not saying this of course but you just triggered something in my head so I am using your post as a spring board.

But I often hear guys complaining Irish Women are terrible and only foreign women are approachable.

But I had the benefit of seeing a lot of these guys "at work" so to speak with women. With the Irish women they had a crap ice breaker and then almost nothing to say after wards.

With the foreign women however as soon as they heard the accent or realised she was foreign they started acting and talking different - asking her where she was from and what it was like there.

It was a real "Its not them its you!" moment for me.

It was not that the Irish women were cold and the foreign women open. It was that _the guys themselves_ were acting differently with the foreign women so the foreign women were in turn acting differently in response.

But every time the guys were coming back with "see? Foreign women are so much more approachable!!!" because they were not seeing the difference in themselves and how they were acting.

Church on Tuesday · 05-06-2019 02:54PM

Sawduck wrote: »

Its awkward if the woman yells at the man because she says she has a boyfriend or the womans friend butts in and tells you to get lost or the woman simply ignores you,these have all happened to me this year alone. The only time recently I got chatting with a woman who was friendly and gave me the time of day was with an English woman who was living in Dublin

I wouldn't give cretins like that another thought; bullet dodged.

If it happens again just shrug and laugh it off.

What I will say though is that you should really be looking for obvious signs of interest before you approach.

KikiLaRue · 05-06-2019 02:56PM

mdk_kdm wrote: »

I don't have any friends (apart from one who lives abroad) so have zero social circle. The only reason to leave my house is to get provisions or walk / exercise.

I'm not being funny/ harsh here, but why don't you have any friends? Are you new to the area? What about family, any siblings or cousins around you could socialise with?

mdk_kdm wrote: »

The concept of joining a club or group of some kind is not appealing. Something about it reeks of desperation.

This is a really negative viewpoint you're holding on to for no real reason. Let it go and embrace some new hobbies. Think back to what you enjoyed doing as a kid. There's something for everyone these days.

mdk_kdm wrote: »

I've been on dating apps / sites for years and never got to the point of meeting up with someone. The idea of a date is so weird. The concept seems so contrived.

Yes, it is contrived and it can be a little awkward. But a little awkwardness won't actually kill you, and it gets easier the more you do it.

mdk_kdm wrote: »

I'm all out of ideas.

That's because you're so closed to ideas: clubs are desperate, dating is contrived, you don't have a social circle - a lot of these thought patterns are of your own making.

Nothing changes if nothing changes; if you keep doing the same things you'll get the same results.

KikiLaRue · 05-06-2019 02:58PM

Sawduck wrote: »

Its awkward if the woman yells at the man because she says she has a boyfriend or the womans friend butts in and tells you to get lost or the woman simply ignores you,these have all happened to me this year alone. The only time recently I got chatting with a woman who was friendly and gave me the time of day was with an English woman who was living in Dublin

Some people are just d1cks.

No escaping that.

What can you take away from it? Can you try and choose someone more approachable next time, or pick a better time?

Wibbs · 05-06-2019 03:09PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It was not that the Irish women were cold and the foreign women open. It was that _the guys themselves_ were acting differently with the foreign women so the foreign women were in turn acting differently in response.

But every time the guys were coming back with "see? Foreign women are so much more approachable!!!" because they were not seeing the difference in themselves and how they were acting.

That's a large factor alright, though I have observed some general cultural differences. One big one is where the culture is more of a hard drinking one of a night out, people and especially women are much more defensive and for good and obvious reasons. Irish and British culture tends to be much more like this(places like Russia can be in the mix here) than say Italian or Spanish culture. Though in the latter, especially in Italy there can be the element of men being too pushy with the approaching, so that can also bring on the defensiveness(until they realise you're not a "local").

sbsquarepants · 05-06-2019 03:25PM

Sawduck wrote: »

Its awkward if the woman yells at the man because she says she has a boyfriend or the womans friend butts in and tells you to get lost or the woman simply ignores you,these have all happened to me this year alone. The only time recently I got chatting with a woman who was friendly and gave me the time of day was with an English woman who was living in Dublin

I don't know sawduck, if women are screaming at you that they have a boyfriend, and their friends are butting in to tell you to sling your hook, I'd say there's more than a fair chance you're coming off a little bit abducty /rapey. No one like that shít!

Maybe try tone down the intensity a notch or two.;)

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about I have a long and illustrious history of being given the brush off by all manner of women, very rarely was there any screaming.

Sawduck · 05-06-2019 03:33PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't know sawduck, if women are screaming at you that they have a boyfriend, and their friends are butting in to tell you to sling your hook, I'd say there's more than a fair chance you're coming off a little bit abducty /rapey. No one like that shít!

Maybe try tone down the intensity a notch or two.;)

Trust me, I know what I'm talking about I have a long and illustrious history of being given the brush off by all manner of women, very rarely was there any screaming.

Well thanks
I was just chatty with them not even really flirting just normal chit chat, but i guess i should just stand in the corner like a loon or just say hi to the women and nothing more, maybe that will appear less "rapey"

KikiLaRue · 05-06-2019 03:47PM

Sawduck wrote: »

Well thanks
I was just chatty with them not even really flirting just normal chit chat, but i guess i should just stand in the corner like a loon or just say hi to the women and nothing more, maybe that will appear less "rapey"

Why do you think these women reacted the way they did?

Sawduck · 05-06-2019 03:52PM

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Why do you think these women reacted the way they did?

Some people are just rude

kunst nugget · 05-06-2019 03:59PM

Sawduck wrote: »

Some people are just rude

I don't know... as a bloke, if I'm out with a good friend having a pint by ourselves there is little to no chance of us ever being interrupted by a ransomer. I could imagine it being pretty annoying if you're trying to catch up with someone and you have people butting in to try and chat one of ye up, especially if you're talking about something serious or upsetting and you're knee-deep in that conversation.

sbsquarepants · 05-06-2019 04:01PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

there is little to no chance of us ever being interrupted by a ransomer. .

As I said, a bit too abducty in his approach:D

kunst nugget · 05-06-2019 04:02PM

sbsquarepants wrote: »

As I said, a bit too abducty in his approach:D

Haha, that was meant to be randomer... best autocorrect ever!

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 05-06-2019 04:06PM

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Some people are just d1cks.

No escaping that.

What can you take away from it? Can you try and choose someone more approachable next time, or pick a better time?

While these are important things, when it comes to things like this one important thing is that loneliness can very easily get into being a vicious cycle because the quality of loneliness itself is off putting.

I'll give another example from the bar I work in (honestly anyone who ever wants to get some weird and valuable insights into human nature, work in a bar, people either treat you as invisible or their therapist :pac:). I was in there last week for a drink after work at my other job. I was sat at the bar with my friend, there were two barmaids working. A guy came in, I'd say in his mid 30s. Normal looking, neatly dressed. Ordered a drink, engaged the barmaid in friendly conversation about a local restaurant. Next time I looked over he was talking to another woman who came up to the bar, she was glancing around for an exit. I was already avoiding catching his eye, we were sat right beside him. Every woman who came to the bar he'd make some friendly comment. Told the other barmaid he really liked her earrings. Asked about the music.

He wasn't actually doing anything wrong, creepy, inappropriate but every woman he spoke to was escaping from him and it just boils down to what's pretty unkindly called the smell of want off him. It's that combination of loneliness and not quite super fluent social skills and it puts people's guards up pretty much across the board but especially in a romantic context and especially specially in that kind of cold approach scenario. By not quite fluent social skills I just mean that sense you get that people's interactions with you are on manual, they might respond a bit unusually in tone or content or misunderstand very widely understood references or phrases. It's nothing hostile or malicious it's just a lot of little micro things adding up to it being fcuking hard work carrying on a conversation with them, nerves make it worse and it's not something easily changed, I dunno, maybe a load of psychotherapy or something but short of that.

I felt bad for him because he was really giving it a go, pretty much everything he was doing seemed like well meaning advice he could have gotten on a thread like this and I could nearly guarantee he went home without so much as a phone number. Mind you while I felt bad for him, not bad enough to let myself be trapped in conversation after a day's work.

I generally agree with the spirit of your advice, be positive, be polite and respectful, look for solutions not problems, be your best self for yourself and above all, don't start hating the opposite gender because of it all. But for some people it's always going to be a bit more difficult and the longer it goes the worse it gets. Gets to the point where it's like when someone has depression and a load of well meaning people pile in with the meaningless advice.

Again not having a go or dismissing your advice, even though I've quoted you twice to disagree with you :pac:

Deebles McBeebles · 05-06-2019 04:12PM

I think we might need a thread for these bar stories, EB. It is interesting that for whatever reason that guy just didn't get it right or maybe it was a case of trying every woman in the place in sight of the other women!

"the smell of want off him"
Brilliant.

SusieBlue · 05-06-2019 04:14PM

kunst nugget wrote: »

I don't know... as a bloke, if I'm out with a good friend having a pint by ourselves there is little to no chance of us ever being interrupted by a ransomer. I could imagine it being pretty annoying if you're trying to catch up with someone and you have people butting in to try and chat one of ye up, especially if you're talking about something serious or upsetting and you're knee-deep in that conversation.

Slightly OT but your post just reminded me of when I worked nights in bars/nightclubs & would sometimes go for a burger after work with the girls I worked with if we were hungry.
We were obviously sober, but McDonalds etc at that time of night was full of drunk people.

Pretty much every single time we did it (and we did it about twice a week) we'd be sitting eating our food in our work clothes only to have some drunk man join our table without invitation.
No matter how politely we'd explain we weren't interested and wanted to be left alone we were either A) ignored, meaning we had to move tables or call security or

got abuse hurled at us, told we were ugly b*tches anyway and should have been grateful for the attention.
All scenarios ended with the imposer implying we were no craic and stuck up, as if we should have been only too delighted to welcome the company of a drunken stranger after a 10 hour shift on our feet.

I can't emphasise enough how frustrating & exasperating it was to FINALLY finish work after having to smile at annoying drunk eejits all night, only to have another drunk eejit feel like its his god given right to impose on our personal space.
Its not something that ever happened our male colleagues, or more interestingly, something that happened if there was a male colleague or two sitting with us.
It only ever happened if the group was made up of girls.

05-06-2019 04:14PM

Don't stand at the bar, smoking area is the place to chat :pac:

Deebles McBeebles · 05-06-2019 04:17PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Don't stand at the bar, smoking area is the place to chat :pac:

True, very true.

KikiLaRue · 05-06-2019 04:21PM

Elisa Warm Ball wrote: »

While these are important things, when it comes to things like this one important thing is that loneliness can very easily get into being a vicious cycle because the quality of loneliness itself is off putting.

I'll give another example from the bar I work in (honestly anyone who ever wants to get some weird and valuable insights into human nature, work in a bar, people either treat you as invisible or their therapist :pac:). I was in there last week for a drink after work at my other job. I was sat at the bar with my friend, there were two barmaids working. A guy came in, I'd say in his mid 30s. Normal looking, neatly dressed. Ordered a drink, engaged the barmaid in friendly conversation about a local restaurant. Next time I looked over he was talking to another woman who came up to the bar, she was glancing around for an exit. I was already avoiding catching his eye, we were sat right beside him. Every woman who came to the bar he'd make some friendly comment. Told the other barmaid he really liked her earrings. Asked about the music.

He wasn't actually doing anything wrong, creepy, inappropriate but every woman he spoke to was escaping from him and it just boils down to what's pretty unkindly called the smell of want off him. It's that combination of loneliness and not quite super fluent social skills and it puts people's guards up pretty much across the board but especially in a romantic context and especially specially in that kind of cold approach scenario. By not quite fluent social skills I just mean that sense you get that people's interactions with you are on manual, they might respond a bit unusually in tone or content or misunderstand very widely understood references or phrases. It's nothing hostile or malicious it's just a lot of little micro things adding up to it being fcuking hard work carrying on a conversation with them, nerves make it worse and it's not something easily changed, I dunno, maybe a load of psychotherapy or something but short of that.

I felt bad for him because he was really giving it a go, pretty much everything he was doing seemed like well meaning advice he could have gotten on a thread like this and I could nearly guarantee he went home without so much as a phone number. Mind you while I felt bad for him, not bad enough to let myself be trapped in conversation after a day's work.

I generally agree with the spirit of your advice, be positive, be polite and respectful, look for solutions not problems, be your best self for yourself and above all, don't start hating the opposite gender because of it all. But for some people it's always going to be a bit more difficult and the longer it goes the worse it gets. Gets to the point where it's like when someone has depression and a load of well meaning people pile in with the meaningless advice.

Again not having a go or dismissing your advice, even though I've quoted you twice to disagree with you :pac:

Ah I’m fairness I can totally understand that perspective. I suppose a better way of putting it would be “if you’re getting a vibe from a woman, don’t be afraid to go up and say hello”.

I’d imagine other things I’ve mentioned like pub quizzes or jiving classes or book clubs or comic book conventions or whatever you’re having yourself where interaction happens more naturally would be better.

My main point is if you’re not happy with your social life or your romantic life but you’re not willing to make any changes or take any risks, that’s on you!

How is a man supposed to find a woman in the 21st century

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