QQI level 5 - question about adjusting the marking scheme in the module descriptor

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 10:49PM #1

I have a question that I'm very worried about.

I have been teaching a QQI (FETAC) level 5 module this year. Its a computer based subject, and 2.5 marks (from 100 total) are allocated on the marking scheme in the module descriptor for printing. I held the exam a few weeks ago, but didnt get the students to print as the printing setup was a mess and didnt work a lot of the time.

My principle is now asking about printing and the fact that "printing was a requirement" of the module. As I'm very new I dont want to get into trouble for any reason (principle is not a man for compromising and wants everything done by the letter of the law).

My question is this... Do I have the discretion to swap the marks in the module descriptor/marking scheme for something else? In other words, if I got the students to do something else in the exam can I substitute this for the marks that should have been for printing? (I did get them to do extra in the exam beyond the bare marks in the module descriptor).

Or are the marks in the marking scheme written in stone and cant ever be changed/adjusted?

Thanks in advance ... I'm losing sleep over this and very worried.

spurious · 28-05-2019 10:59PM

It's not the students' fault they did not print. In fairness they should all get those 2.5 marks, but I don't know what leeway you have. Common sense would say they should not be penalised for something outside their control.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:05PM

spurious wrote: »

It's not the students' fault they did not print. In fairness they should all get those 2.5 marks, but I don't know what leeway you have. Common sense would say they should not be penalised for something outside their control.

Yes I fully agree... but that’s not what I was asking.

I want to give them full marks ... can I swap those marks by adding something else instead? Or is the module descriptor written in stone?

poster2525 · 28-05-2019 11:18PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I have a question that I'm very worried about.

I have been teaching a QQI (FETAC) level 5 module this year. Its a computer based subject, and 2.5 marks (from 100 total) are allocated on the marking scheme in the module descriptor for printing. I held the exam a few weeks ago, but didnt get the students to print as the printing setup was a mess and didnt work a lot of the time.

My principle is now asking about printing and the fact that "printing was a requirement" of the module. As I'm very new I dont want to get into trouble for any reason (principle is not a man for compromising and wants everything done by the letter of the law).

My question is this... Do I have the discretion to swap the marks in the module descriptor/marking scheme for something else? In other words, if I got the students to do something else in the exam can I substitute this for the marks that should have been for printing? (I did get them to do extra in the exam beyond the bare marks in the module descriptor).

Or are the marks in the marking scheme written in stone and cant ever be changed/adjusted?

Thanks in advance ... I'm losing sleep over this and very worried.

You can't substitute the marks.
You will have to deduct the 2.5 marks. Otherwise, is it possible the student could demonstrate this skill to you on another date, if it was not available on the day in question? Or could they talk you through the skill but stop short of the hitting Print due to the technical difficulties on the day??

Either way, you're bound by the marking scheme and have to stick to it.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:20PM

poster2525 wrote: »

You can't substitute the marks.
You will have to deduct the 2.5 marks. Otherwise, is it possible the student could demonstrate this skill to you on another date, if it was not available on the day in question? Or could they talk you through the skill but stop short of the hitting Print due to the technical difficulties on the day??

Either way, you're bound by the marking scheme and have to stick to it.

Not the answer I wanted to hear.

I could be in big trouble.

Next question is what do I do next? When principle asked me about this will I have to come clean? I’m likely to be sacked aren’t I??

spurious · 28-05-2019 11:28PM

You won't be sacked, but the Principal needs to answer why they are offering a qualification students cannot complete in his/her centre.

I would be really pissed if I was a student who missed my qualification (at whatever level) by 2.5 marks that it was not possible for me to score.

Even the SEC would have a contingency plan for something like that. Is there an advisor in QQI you can speak to?

poster2525 · 28-05-2019 11:31PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Not the answer I wanted to hear.

I could be in big trouble.

Next question is what do I do next? When principle asked me about this will I have to come clean? I’m likely to be sacked aren’t I??

No. You won't be sacked. Everyone makes mistakes.

I would explain the situation and if you can, state that you are willing to stand over the fact that all of these students have produced printed materials for you on various occasions and you are prepared to sign off on this skill, if the technology was not working on the day in question. If they haven't done this, or if he is not happy with this, then acknowledge this oversight and reassure him that (hopefully) it will not have a bearing on any student moving from a distinction to a merit or a pass grade.

No one's perfect.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:32PM

spurious wrote: »

You won't be sacked, but the Principal needs to answer why they are offering a qualification students cannot complete in his/her centre.

I would be really pissed if I was a student who missed my qualification (at whatever level) by 2.5 marks that it was not possible for me to score.

Even the SEC would have a contingency plan for something like that. Is there an advisor in QQI you can speak to?

There is a QQI person but they will go straight to the principle as they are new in the role and won’t consider anything that might be trouble.

Worst case scenario what’s the worst thing that can happen to me?

Should I get TUI advice at this point?

I know principle will not take this well. He is very ambitious and will definitely do everything by the book once he finds out about this.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:38PM

poster2525 wrote: »

No. You won't be sacked. Everyone makes mistakes.

I would explain the situation and if you can, state that you are willing to stand over the fact that all of these students have produced printed materials for you on various occasions and you are prepared to sign off on this skill, if the technology was not working on the day in question. If they haven't done this, or if he is not happy with this, then acknowledge this oversight and reassure him that (hopefully) it will not have a bearing on any student moving from a distinction to a merit or a pass grade.

No one's perfect.

The problem is that this particular principle is very ambitious and wants to make his mark with the ETB brass. He has his on a promotion over the coning years. He is also known to be a “clever bully” who has made a few people’s lives an absolute misery.

I know I messed up with this, but I did my best.

I have a feeling I will get everything possible thrown at me for this. I think I am in big trouble.

I’m panicking here. Should I contact the TUI ASAP?

spurious · 28-05-2019 11:41PM

You did not mess up. Where do you think you did not do what you are paid to do?

rainbowtrout · 28-05-2019 11:42PM

Aside from your current dilemma, why is your principal asking about printing? Did you tell the principal you didn't award marks for printing or was he scouring through your marking sheets?

Also, you said the printing set up was a mess and didn't work most of the time. Did it work on the day of the exam or did you check or let students attempt printing?

poster2525 · 28-05-2019 11:43PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

There is a QQI person but they will go straight to the principle as they are new in the role and won’t consider anything that might be trouble.

Worst case scenario what’s the worst thing that can happen to me?

Should I get TUI advice at this point?

I know principle will not take this well. He is very ambitious and will definitely do everything by the book once he finds out about this.

This is very minor. Mistakes happen and you're not the first or the last person to do something like this. You did not leave out a whole assignment! I personally wouldn't go to TUI.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:43PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Aside from your current dilemma, why is your principal asking about printing? Did you tell the principal you didn't award marks for printing or was he scouring through your marking sheets?

One of the students mentioned that they didn’t print in the exam and then he checked the module descriptor.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:45PM

spurious wrote: »

You did not mess up. Where do you think you did not do what you are paid to do?

I didn’t follow the marking scheme.

I didn’t give the students the chance to get 100% in the exam.

I’m in deep trouble here. He’ll crucify me ... he has made an example of others ... I’m next.

spurious · 28-05-2019 11:48PM

He will do nothing of the sort. As Principal he failed to make sure the equipment in his school was up to scratch. It's not you that has messed up.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:51PM

spurious wrote: »

He will do nothing of the sort. As Principal he failed to make sure the equipment in his school was up to scratch. It's not you that has messed up.

I’m responsible for this module. He’ll say he wasn’t told about this printing issue and the blame will be on me.

And he’s probably correct.

/edit/ I’ve been out sick with depression and stress this year and I’m not dealing with this well. I was hoping to stumble to the summer ... now I’m not sure how I’ll get through the next 3 days.

rainbowtrout · 28-05-2019 11:57PM

I spent years teaching and doing internal verification on FETAC/QQI.

It is your responsibility to ensure that students are able to complete their exam. Granted if the computer network crashes during the exam, you can't do much about that, bar delay the exam or do a rerun when it is fixed. But your students weren't given a chance to print when they should have been.

If there is no evidence of printing in your exam you can't give them the marks. You can't swap out marks on QQI, otherwise everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be standardised.

Ultimately it's not fair on your students as they lose 2.5 marks which could affect some grades which are borderline.

Next time check your printers are working the day before your exam and the morning of your exam, and get them fixed if not. You didn't answer my question about that.

I don't often disagree with spurious, but not having printers working and not doing anything about it, and not asking your students to print in the exam when it is a part of the exam that they get marks for is your responsibility. If the printers don't work, you need to raise that issue and communicate the need for a working printer for your exam.

teachinggal123 · 28-05-2019 11:59PM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I spent years teaching and doing internal verification on FETAC/QQI.

It is your responsibility to ensure that students are able to complete their exam. Granted if the computer network crashes during the exam, you can't do much about that, bar delay the exam or do a rerun when it is fixed. But your students weren't given a chance to print when they should have been.

If there is no evidence of printing in your exam you can't give them the marks. You can't swap out marks on QQI, otherwise everyone would be doing it and it wouldn't be standardised.

Ultimately it's not fair on your students as they lose 2.5 marks which could affect some grades which are borderline.

Next time check your printers are working the day before your exam and the morning of your exam, and get them fixed if not. You didn't answer my question about that.

I don't often disagree with spurious, but not having printers working and not doing anything about it, and not asking your students to print in the exam when it is a part of the exam that they get marks for is your responsibility. If the printers don't work, you need to raise that issue and communicate the need for a working printer for your exam.

Thanks.

I accept all of that.

/edit/ what is the usual (or likely) sanction that will be applied to me for this?

rainbowtrout · 29-05-2019 12:21AM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Thanks.

I accept all of that.

/edit/ what is the usual (or likely) sanction that will be applied to me for this?

The external authenticator will probably just say that marks can't be awarded for a section where no evidence is provided. And if no marks awarded the marks aren't an issue, but as feedback will possibly note that students have to be given the opportunity to print.

For you if that means lining them all up and letting them print one by one from a computer then so be it, while your printer network is fixed.

What do the other teachers who teach QQI do. There is likely other modules that require a printing element in the exam. Anyone teaching word processing, spreadsheets, databases etc would have this element.

Your principal is a different matter. It's not a firing offence.

teachinggal123 · 29-05-2019 12:30AM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The external authenticator will probably just say that marks can't be awarded for a section where no evidence is provided. And if no marks awarded the marks aren't an issue, but as feedback will possibly note that students have to be given the opportunity to print.

For you if that means lining them all up and letting them print one by one from a computer then so be it, while your printer network is fixed.

What do the other teachers who teach QQI do. There is likely other modules that require a printing element in the exam. Anyone teaching word processing, spreadsheets, databases etc would have this element.

Your principal is a different matter. It's not a firing offence.

1. My modules are not being externally moderated this time round. They are subject to IV only.

2. Other teachers find a way to print. The software I’m using doesn’t seem to work with the printers because of windows admin rights. I’m not certain of why other teachers get it working and I can’t.

3. This all arose from a student saying they didn’t have to print as part of my exam and the principle overhearing.

You seem to have a lot of experience here. Can you advise me please. Should I talk to the principle tomorrow to explain myself? Or should I get TUI advice before any meeting?

rainbowtrout · 29-05-2019 12:49AM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

1. My modules are not being externally moderated this time round. They are subject to IV only.

2. Other teachers find a way to print. The software I’m using doesn’t seem to work with the printers because of windows admin rights. I’m not certain of why other teachers get it working and I can’t.

3. This all arose from a student saying they didn’t have to print as part of my exam and the principle overhearing.

You seem to have a lot of experience here. Can you advise me please. Should I talk to the principle tomorrow to explain myself? Or should I get TUI advice before any meeting?

To be honest this is your issue. If you can't get it working and other teachers can, then you need to ask one of them to show you how it works. Saying the printer doesn't work because you don't know how to work it isn't really an excuse.

I'm not sure why you would need to ring your union for advice. You can only explain the situation as it stands.

teachinggal123 · 29-05-2019 12:53AM

rainbowtrout wrote: »

To be honest this is your issue. If you can't get it working and other teachers can, then you need to ask one of them to show you how it works. Saying the printer doesn't work because you don't know how to work it isn't really an excuse.

I'm not sure why you would need to ring your union for advice. You can only explain the situation as it stands.

Ok thanks I’ll try to do that.

endacl · 29-05-2019 01:15AM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

Ok thanks I’ll try to do that.

It'll all be forgotten in September. Learn from it and move on.

These things happen.

TBH, I'd be more concerned with the fact that an atmosphere exists in the school whereby you, as a professional adult, feels afraid to approach your principle for support and advice with a straightforward problem.

teachinggal123 · 29-05-2019 01:27AM

endacl wrote: »

It'll all be forgotten in September. Learn from it and move on.

These things happen.

Thanks. I’m hoping things will look better in the morning.

endacl wrote: »

, I'd be more concerned with the fact that an atmosphere exists in the school whereby you, as a professional adult, feels afraid to approach your principle for support and advice with a straightforward problem.

Yes, it’s a horrible athmosphere. It’s been responsible for me being out sick with stress and depression.

frenchmartini · 29-05-2019 10:42PM

Can I ask, is it mentioned SPECIFICALLY in the QQI mark sheet? And second question, have you been through EA yet?

rainbowtrout · 29-05-2019 10:47PM

frenchmartini wrote: »

Can I ask, is it mentioned SPECIFICALLY in the QQI mark sheet? And second question, have you been through EA yet?

Printing is a fairly standard part of computerised exams and is on the marking sheet. OP has implied EA hasn't happened yet a couple of posts back.

CraftySue · 29-05-2019 11:06PM

Having spent time teaching and as a QQI coordinator, I agree marks must be assigned according to the module descriptor. You havn't said if deducting 2.5 makes any difference to anyones overall grade. If it doesn't breath a sigh of relief, and lesson learnt. These things happen to everyone at some stage, if the principal queries it- own up to it, apologies, and highlight how you now realise you must check and check again the printers in future- but overall this is a minor oversight which can happen to anyone.

deiseindublin · 29-05-2019 11:54PM

You made a mistake, it happens. That's that the whole IV system is there for, the mistake has been found and you've learned from it, it won't happen next year. In a way it's a pity the mod isn't being EAed, because then it would be documented internally and externally iykwim.

It could be an option to get students to come in again and give them the opportunity to print. Talk to the QQI co-ordinator. They may be able to accept another piece of previously printed work from student with your affirming that they printed themselves.

At the end of the day, QQI is outcome driven and I am assuming all of the students could actually print, had the facility been working.

For your own sake, don't let this drive you around the twist, in the scheme of thing it really is small and it means it'll never happen you again.

Oh, and chin up, 2 days and counting.........

AndrewJRenko · 02-06-2019 09:58PM

teachinggal123 wrote: »

1. My modules are not being externally moderated this time round. They are subject to IV only.

2. Other teachers find a way to print. The software I’m using doesn’t seem to work with the printers because of windows admin rights. I’m not certain of why other teachers get it working and I can’t.

A good option for the future if this happens again would be to get the students to print directly to PDF files, using a PDF driver. They can save the files for review or printing later.

QQI level 5 - question about adjusting the marking scheme in the module descriptor

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