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Fictional "extra services" on Irish Rail

  • 24-05-2019 10:55pm
    #1
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Irish Rail advertised extra Maynooth line services for the Spice Girls concert tonight - but they never said what they were, unlike other lines

    This appears to have been one service, and came from an advertised (on journey planner only) 21/actually 30 minute delay to an existing scheduled service.


    Is this the first time they've tried this nonsense or has anyone experienced it before?


Comments

  • #2
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    22.50 and 23.05 (from Druncondra) both in journey planner in addition to schedule 22.40 and 23.20.


  • #3
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    2240 is not scheduled for 2240 but 2219. And it left at 2249


  • #4
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    The 22.50 didn't depart until 23.15 (arrived 22.51) and 23.05 at 23.26.

    They regularly hold scheduled services for 10-20 minutes after events.


  • #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Which shouldn't be done and isn't acceptable.


  • #6
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    They were catering for large volume of customers. I think it makes good sense to alter scheduled services.


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  • #7
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    L1011 wrote: »
    Which shouldn't be done and isn't acceptable.

    Are you for real???

    Extra services are put on for a particular event. If the event runs over of course they should be holding them. Its better to up set a few then potentially stranding 1000s so late at night.

    Do you think match specials should run as scheduled if the game has a long injury delay and then happened to go into extra time ect.


  • #8
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This was a scheduled service which was held, not an extra.


  • #9
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    L1011 wrote: »
    This was a scheduled service which was held, not an extra.

    They'll defer some services for a later time to meet demand, the last Dundalk service was deferred by 20 mins or so. No point running an empty train when you can fill it to the brim a few mins later. It also reduces the need of bringing in an extra set to cover the demand.

    In fairness to IE they've taken a great approach on specials in recent years and have really opened up options and made these events accessible for people throughout the country.


  • #10
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Deferring services, of a train or other public transport is absolutely idiotic from the customers view point. If the train isn't on time, why the hell would you take it?

    The only services that should be held back are obviously the services for the event.


  • #11
    john boye
    Registered Users Posts: 1,492 ✭✭✭john boye


    IE 222 wrote: »
    No point running an empty train when you can fill it to the brim a few mins later.

    No point having a timetable at all then in that case.


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  • #12
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Ivanna Deep Handle wrote: »
    Deferring services, of a train or other public transport is absolutely idiotic from the customers view point. If the train isn't on time, why the hell would you take it?

    The only services that should be held back are obviously the services for the event.

    No point in running a schedule service at 22.20 if hundreds of customers will need to travel 20 minutes later. There is only a certain amount of extra service you can run. It was sensible to defer the service. If the regular 22.20 service was regularly packed they wouldn't have deferred it.
    In fairness to IE they've taken a great approach on specials in recent years and have really opened up options and made these events accessible for people throughout the country.

    Really?, the only great approach was for the Garth Brooks but of course they didn't happen. IE were only delighted might have forced them to run more in future years.

    I believe the specials to Cork/Galway had quiet a bit of capacity on Saturday morning then again lack of planning is partly responsible.


  • #13
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    john boye wrote: »
    No point having a timetable at all then in that case.

    Train still ran. Train was deferred to cater for a greater number of customers. Given the large number of passengers throughout the day using the services I'm sure many services were delayed beyond the listed times.


  • #14
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »

    Really?, the only great approach was for the Garth Brooks but of course they didn't happen. IE were only delighted might have forced them to run more in future years.

    I believe the specials to Cork/Galway had quiet a bit of capacity on Saturday morning then again lack of planning is partly responsible.

    Yeah, most events and matches seen to get specials put on. Once there is enough demand they'll offer the service providing they have the resources.

    Given the event was on a Friday I'm sure they were limited in what they could offer. Many folks would of stayed the night rather than travelling back home for 2-3am. They did offer Cork, Limerick, Galway and many stops in between a late service like they do for most events.


  • #15
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Yeah, most events and matches seen to get specials put on. Once there is enough demand they'll offer the service providing they have the resources.

    Given the event was on a Friday I'm sure they were limited in what they could offer. Many folks would of stayed the night rather than travelling back home for 2-3am. They did offer Cork, Limerick, Galway and many stops in between a late service like they do for most events.

    Specials "within operating hours". The specials on Friday would have performed significantly better had they been available when the majority were booking tickets. I heard towards end of week there was seats in excess of 100 not taken on the Cork service.

    Another example is the last GCD to Hazelhatch. Why was it not extended to Kildare.


  • #16
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Specials "within operating hours". The specials on Friday would have performed significantly better had they been available when the majority were booking tickets. I heard towards end of week there was seats in excess of 100 not taken on the Cork service.

    Another example is the last GCD to Hazelhatch. Why was it not extended to Kildare.

    May as well fill what's already running first. As far as I know services on Cork, Limerick and Galway between 9am-2pm were sold out. They pushed earlier and later services beyond that. I'm not sure if there was much more demand to provide an additional special but as it was a Friday afternoon I'm sure normal schedules would have the fleet stretched enough. Given they only ran 2 intercitys back that night I'm sure there was enough to cover the demand on normal services.

    Not sure about that but the argument can be made to all the commuter services. They obviously have a reason or data to suggest it wasn't required.


  • #17
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Done again tonight, delay services rather than run additional; this time without advertising any changes whatsoever - all they stated was additional DARTs.

    Also proving incapable of preventing access to the platform to let the train leave, leading to repeated failed attempts to close the doors.

    Someone - e.g. the NTA - needs to remind Irish Rail what services they are heftily paid to provide and what services are commercial. If there is a need for subsidised additionals for these events the NTA has to pay for those as additionals; not destroy the operating schedule for them.


  • #18
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    7 extra DARTs were scheduled last night 4 (north) and 3 (south) into Connolly.


  • #19
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Same as GAA services some times - as if IE exists to facilitate their business.

    There will have been people on those delayed services who planned journeys in anticipation of being at their destination at specific times, and might have chosen other modes if IE had admitted they would not necessarily honour departure schedules.


  • #20
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    L1011 wrote: »
    Done again tonight, delay services rather than run additional; this time without advertising any changes whatsoever - all they stated was additional DARTs.

    In fairness, they have highlighted this since Wednesday or Thursday through Twitter and the journey planner. I even made a comment on Thursday in the 24 hour bus thread about the lack of nitelink services on Sunday night and that compared to 9pm this time last year , the last maynooth train would leave later than the last bus on Sunday .

    I do agree though, I find their Customer PR at best , mind-boggling. Take for example , bloom this week. They are telling Connolly passengers to go to Heuston and avail of the shuttle service. This despite the bloom site being a 15-20 walk from Ashtown station . Despite being the nearest station to the site, there has been no mention of Ashtown station in any of their bloom PR.


  • #21
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    https://twitter.com/dani_sheehan_/status/1135170798656905223?s=09


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  • #22
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    thomasj wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/dani_sheehan_/status/1135170798656905223?s=09

    In theory passengers had 1 minute (instead of 4) to make the connection if it departed at 00.11 as scheduled or should I say re-scheduled.


  • #23
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    In theory passengers had 1 minute (instead of 4) to make the connection if it departed at 00.11 as scheduled or should I say re-scheduled.

    It's awful. The m3 parkway service is a connecting service. What the driver should be doing is watching for the maynooth train to pass, and then countdown by 4 or 5 minutes before they leave.


  • #24
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    thomasj wrote: »
    It's awful. The m3 parkway service is a connecting service. What the driver should be doing is watching for the maynooth train to pass, and then countdown by 4 or 5 minutes before they leave.

    I agree, driver was possibly clock watching and Maynooth train did depart before this service did.

    2 minutes should be enough, now in this case question is did more that this person miss the connection. If yes there might be a case.


  • #25
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    I agree, driver was possibly clock watching and Maynooth train did depart before this service did.

    2 minutes should be enough, now in this case question is did more that this person miss the connection. If yes there might be a case.

    Yeah sorry there was a further tweet on that conversation by them . They said 8 in total missed the train and they had to get taxis to m3 parkway.

    Surely the m3 parkway train left before the maynooth? They were saying the m3 parkway train had left as they stepped off the maynooth train.


  • #26
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    And looks like it repeated itself
    https://twitter.com/WhoriskeyNeil/status/1135590634147000320?s=09


  • #27
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    For reference deferred Maynooth trains this week are: (per journey planner)

    7th June 2019: 23:31hrs Pearse Maynooth (deferred 23:10hrs service)

    8th June 2019: 23:30hrs Connolly Maynooth (deferred 23:17hrs service)


  • #28
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    thomasj wrote: »
    And looks like it repeated itself
    https://twitter.com/WhoriskeyNeil/status/1135590634147000320?s=09

    IE should issue them costs.

    Real Time Records Show:

    Friday Night
    The Maynooth service was scheduled to arrive and 00.07.30 and arrived at 00.13.54 and departed at 00.15.42. The M3 departed at 00.11.

    Saturday Night
    The Maynooth service was scheduled to arrive and 00.07.30 and arrived at 00.09.54 and departed at 00.11.42. The M3 departed at ?? (possibly incorrect train ID used).

    * M3 Parkway data might not be fully accurate.

    The tweet would indicate Saturday night but I wonder if it was referring to Friday night. Considering both the driver and CTC are well aware the M3 is supposed to take the connection for it to potentially happen both nights is not acceptable.


  • #29
    thomasj
    Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    They're not helping theirselves here !

    3 part tweet

    https://twitter.com/kokomabo/status/1137132843300245505?s=09

    https://twitter.com/kokomabo/status/1137133116609519617?s=09

    https://twitter.com/kokomabo/status/1137133367466569733?s=09


  • #30
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This is why trying to use the scheduled services as the specials doesn't work.


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  • #31
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I think it's time for those who prepare to weekly circular to staff to make it crystal clear what is required. The person in charge and the signalling regulator are clueless.


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