Should Voting be mandatory?

Tell me how · 24-05-2019 11:55PM

Dakota Dan wrote: »

What boggles my mind is fools voting for the stupid greens, do they know they will lump us with carbon taxes for using every day things. Awaits responses from climate nuts.

What boggles my mind is fools thinking that initiatives to try to protect the environment are unnecessary.

Unfortunately, we live in a world where the pain of tax is often necessary to bring about change.

ancapailldorcha · 24-05-2019 11:59PM

Several posts deleted and ban issued. Serious discussion only please.

25-05-2019 12:01AM

I don’t vote and wouldn’t appreciate been forced to. If there was a candidate that I thought would make a difference, I would vote for them. But all I ever see is just more of the same.

Dash_Of_Red · 25-05-2019 12:14AM

I have never voted.
I'm never likely to either.

Why would you force a person to vote?

If a person feels strongly enough to vote for something then they have to do something about it, they have to actually get off their back-side and go and lodge their vote.
So it means something to them. Lets use Divorce as the example. If Mary votes for divorce it means shes in favour of divorce.
If Mary votes for abortion then we can safely assume Mary has her opinion about abortion.

But if you make voting mandatory you are forcing Joe who's 50/50 on the entire thing to choose. And you're forcing me who's comfortable with abstaining for my own reasons to choose.
So suddenly Mary who passionately votes YES has her vote off-set by me because I was forced to vote and ticked the "no" box.

Sorry but thats an awful load of crap

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 12:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t vote and wouldn’t appreciate been forced to. If there was a candidate that I thought would make a difference, I would vote for them. But all I ever see is just more of the same.

Would you really have no preference between say Mairead McGuinness, Peter Casey or Ming Flanagan represent you and be driving policy on your behalf over in Brussels?

I choose them as they're relatively well known and would appear to me to be very different. You don't have to think one of them is perfect in order to see that they would not be just the same. One being elected over the other, taken in isolation, probably isn't going to have a profound effect on your life, but all the little bits add up. And surely you would have a preference between them?

Eircom_Sucks · 25-05-2019 12:24AM

Im 38 and voted once in my life

Won’t vote anymore , i’ve no interest in what party this or that etc

No matter who comes in , joe public gets shaffted as per usual , none have ever backed up their policies

So no i won’t bother

John_Rambo · 25-05-2019 12:26AM

I know very few people that don't vote.

The few people that I know that don't want to vote the type of people I really don't want to vote. They want, and should stay at home and not have a say... Forcing them to vote would be silly. They'd make silly decisions that they're not qualified to make.

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 12:35AM

John_Rambo wrote: »

I know very few people that don't vote.

The few people that I know that don't want to vote the type of people I really don't want to vote. They want, and should stay at home and not have a say... Forcing them to vote would be silly. They'd make silly decisions that they're not qualified to make.

Everyone is allowed to make a choice. Even if you think they will make a bad choice.

One advantage of the STV system is that it allows more independents and smaller parties to run and still get a few votes. Because those votes can be transferred and generally not wasted.

An aside of that is that plenty of loopers and no-hopers can and do run. So I would not be worried about a small few people making "silly decisions". If they vote for fringe lunatics, it is likely that their votes are diluted and spread across a number of said lunatics. Maybe they vote for a strong-ish candidate and their vote pushes that candidate across the line. But that's their choice even if you don't agree with their choice. For the candidate to get to that position, they have to have had plenty of other support and would be a legitimate choice.

And as said before, the onus is on the other parties and candidates to fight for that vote anyway. They need to get out and engage and get their policies out there and explained.

Cookie_Monster · 25-05-2019 12:35AM

NZ has the balance right I think. It's a legal requirement to be registered to vote, but there is no actual compulsion to vote.

Dash_Of_Red · 25-05-2019 12:45AM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Would you really have no preference between say Mairead McGuinness, Peter Casey or Ming Flanagan represent you and be driving policy on your behalf over in Brussels?

I choose them as they're relatively well known and would appear to me to be very different. You don't have to think one of them is perfect in order to see that they would not be just the same. One being elected over the other, taken in isolation, probably isn't going to have a profound effect on your life, but all the little bits add up. And surely you would have a preference between them?

I know you directed this at another person but I had given same answer.

I have zero confidence in our political system so its an insignificance who represents us in Brussels.

ghostdancer · 25-05-2019 12:51AM

have you ever listened to a radio/TV vox pop on the street?
people are f-kcin idiots.

I'd rather make it more difficult for people to vote to be honest. have an independent commission do up a small test with basic questions about government/institutions/politics in Ireland, that you have to pass to get a voting licence.

I'd prefer 100 people who are informed and have taken the trouble to educate themselves and do some basic research, over 100,000 that only voted because they were forced to.

Dash_Of_Red · 25-05-2019 12:53AM

ghostdancer wrote: »

have you ever listened to a radio/TV vox pop on the street?
people are f-kcin idiots.

I'd rather make it more difficult for people to vote to be honest. have an independent commission do up a small test with basic questions about government/institutions/politics in Ireland, that you have to pass to get a voting licence.

I'd prefer 100 people who are informed and have taken the trouble to educate themselves and do some basic research, over 100,000 that only voted because they were forced to.

So "No" then.

Leroy42 · 25-05-2019 09:39AM

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Im 38 and voted once in my life

Won’t vote anymore , i’ve no interest in what party this or that etc

No matter who comes in , joe public gets shaffted as per usual , none have ever backed up their policies

So no i won’t bother

So you simply lie down and give up?

By not bothering to vote you are telling politicians that it makes no difference what they do, you don't care.

But the likes of the Water Charges protests prove that things can change.

Instead of doing nothing, all those fed up with politicians and politics should band together to get there people to top the polls. There is close to 40% free votes just waiting to be utilised to make change.

With social media getting these things going isn't that difficult. At the end, all the reasons for not voting tend to fall away to simply; too much hassle and I don't care.

AndrewJRenko · 25-05-2019 01:52PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'll disagree with you on this. I'm not sure why people who would otherwise be apathetic enough not to bother vote would be pulled to an extreme. I can anticipate some kind of argument where one might think that the people who do not vote are disengaged and maybe poorer/less educated and that those might be pulled towards extremes. I don't really buy that all those people are gullible and automatically attracted to populism and demagoguery. And the onus is on the other politicians to earn their votes. There might be a greater danger initially, but once people start to take responsibility for their choices then they will become more engaged.

I hope you're right, but experiences in other countries raise the question of pushing out to extreme views. The extremists pretty much crashed out in these elections though, with the facists from Irexit and crazy Gemma crashing and burning badly, and Casey being a long way from any kind of credibility.

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

Im 38 and voted once in my life

Won’t vote anymore , i’ve no interest in what party this or that etc

No matter who comes in , joe public gets shaffted as per usual , none have ever backed up their policies

So no i won’t bother

Good of you to let your neighbours put in the candidates that suit them best - very generous.

ghostdancer wrote: »

have you ever listened to a radio/TV vox pop on the street?
people are f-kcin idiots.

At times like this, I'm reminded of Sid Viscous comment on the 'man in the street'.

AndrewJRenko · 25-05-2019 05:21PM

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

all back handers and brown evelopes

Please do share your evidence of this, given that only a handful of politicians have been caught on this stuff in the past decade.

Or is it just a cop out to avoid making a decision?

tayto lover · 25-05-2019 05:24PM

I always vote but for years now it’s not a choice of who’s the best for the job but of who’s the least corrupt or annoying.

Eircom_Sucks · 25-05-2019 05:44PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Please do share your evidence of this, given that only a handful of politicians have been caught on this stuff in the past decade.

Or is it just a cop out to avoid making a decision?

A handful that have been caught

Will i walk you through it and hold your hand while explaining ?

AndrewJRenko · 25-05-2019 06:08PM

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

A handful that have been caught

Will i walk you through it and hold your hand while explaining ?

Yes, please do explain.

Aska · 25-05-2019 06:11PM

I'd say yes, my father hasn't bothered his hole voting for decades now.

If not mandatory maybe they should be removed if they don't vote for a specific amount of elections in a row, as in if you miss 3 in a row etc.

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 06:43PM

Aska wrote: »

I'd say yes, my father hasn't bothered his hole voting for decades now.

If not mandatory maybe they should be removed if they don't vote for a specific amount of elections in a row, as in if you miss 3 in a row etc.

No. While I would be somewhat in favour of some form of mandatory voting, I would 100% be against forcefully removing the vote from anyone as a punishment. It opens up a complete new can of worms with potential abuse and manipulation, or at a minimum, accusations of abuse and manipulation.

I mean forcefully in the sense of taking it against their wishes.

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-05-2019 06:44PM

I'd happily take the fine if they ever brought it in. It would be absolute horse **** though, people shouldn't want someone like me to vote.

Tell me how · 25-05-2019 06:46PM

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I'd happily take the fine if they ever brought it in. It would be absolute horse **** though, people shouldn't want someone like me to vote.

That makes no sense.
You'd sooner pay money than go to a polling station to vote or spoil your ballot?

What do you think you'd achieve by doing this?

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-05-2019 06:48PM

Tell me how wrote: »

That makes no sense.
You'd sooner pay money than go to a polling station to vote or spoil your ballot?

What do you think you'd achieve by doing this?

I don't believe any politician is any more than a chancer that tells you lies and won't be heard tell of once they've duped a vote from someone. I don't give a toss about referendums. I don't want to be on the electoral register. I don't want to waste my time going to a polling station. I'd pay the fine.

One vote matters little anyway, well get exactly the same if I don't vote as we'll get if I do.

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 06:50PM

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

I don't believe any politician is any more than a chancer that tells you lies and won't be heard tell of once they've duped a vote from someone. I don't give a toss about referendums. I don't want to be on the electoral register. I don't want to waste my time going to a polling station. I'd pay the fine.

You can take yourself off the electoral register (I assume).

Your neighbours can make your choices for you if you are happy with that. You'll be happy and they'll be happy and the politicians will be happy because it's one less vote(r) to worry about or answer to

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-05-2019 06:52PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

You can take yourself off the electoral register (I assume).

Your neighbours can make your choices for you if you are happy with that. You'll be happy and they'll be happy and the politicians will be happy because it's one less vote(r) to worry about or answer to

You can indeed I think. I'm not on it any more anyway though.

And like I said, they'll make the choices anyway. Has any election or referendum ever been decided by one vote?

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 06:54PM

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

You can indeed I think. I'm not on it any more anyway though.

I'm perfectly fine with that as long as people who remove themselves from the system realize that they have no right to criticize it any more. They waived their influence to make any changes so cannot moan about other people's decisions.

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

And like I said, they'll make the choices anyway. Has any election or referendum ever been decided by one vote?

Actually yes. I learned today from a link on another thread where an election was decided by 1/50th of a vote! This was the link the poster gave http://www.mayonews.ie/news/33709-when-1-50th-of-a-vote-decided-an-election

(In reality, one vote would have changed it. The 1/50 comes from the proportional transfer)

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-05-2019 06:56PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

I'm perfectly fine with that as long as people who remove themselves from the system realize that they have no right to criticize it any more. They waived their influence to make any changes so cannot moan about other people's decisions.

Of course I can. Someone not voting doesn't automatically turn a crook into an honest person. Even if I did vote, the people that were going to win would still win and the people that were going to lose would still lose anyway.

Donald Trump · 25-05-2019 07:00PM

OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »

Of course I can. Someone not voting doesn't automatically turn a crook into an honest person. Even if I did vote, the people that were going to win would still win and the people that were going to lose would still lose anyway.

How do you have any entitlement to criticize it when you abdicated from any contribution you could have made to change it. Why are you so special that everyone else should change it on your behalf?

10 people get together to build a playground for their neighbourhood. One says "I can't be arsed" so the other 9 go off and fundraise and design and get it built. Number 10 comes back at the end moaning that it's not perfect and they they should have raised more money or done X or Y.

OldMrBrennan83 · 25-05-2019 07:01PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

How do you have any entitlement to criticize it when you abdicated from any contribution you could have made to change it. Why are you so special that everyone else should change it on your behalf?

10 people get together to build a playground for their neighbourhood. One says "I can't be arsed" so the other 9 go off and fundraise and design and get it built. Number 10 comes back at the end moaning that it's not perfect and they they should have raised more money or done X or Y.

It's not 10 though. My vote wouldn't be 10% of the electorate.

mvl · 25-05-2019 07:03PM

BrokenArrows wrote: »

It should be mandatory, but it should also be easier.

There is no reason that we cant have a secure voting system. If everyone in the countries money is safe behind a simple username and password with online banking them surely they can make a voting system.

And in the case where some security breach is found then they just reset the election and tell everyone to vote again.

It just be as easy as installing an app, signing in and voting.

I'd be inclined to agree on the accessibility.

and I would be pushing it further: come up with a third layer in lawmaking, besides Dail/Seanad, allowing all citizens to vote continuously with smart voting machines using biometrics/face recognition/IOT...

Should Voting be mandatory?

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