Self service tills and job losses

dhaughton99 · 23-05-2019 01:12PM

heebusjeebus wrote: »

Plenty of jobs around that people can move into, with a bit of training. Healthcare is a big one that will see very little automation.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jun/26/jobs-future-automation-robots-skills-creative-health

Automation could also produce new roles that we don't initially see coming.

I think what you mean by healthcare is wiping old people’s arses for €11 an hour.

degsie · 23-05-2019 01:15PM

Look at how many farriers lost their jobs when the motor car came along

dhaughton99 · 23-05-2019 01:17PM

I was in Dunnes yesterday and they had 5 old dears sitting at the tills and all the customers were using the self service checkout. Everyone was bypassing them. Same auld wans who have been working there for years. Probably can’t get rid of them until they retire.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 01:18PM

jester77 wrote: »

On the other side, lots of jobs created designing the system, writing the software, developing the hardware, installing it, maintaining it and running it.

Many reports suggest the losses will be greater than the gains.

Retail is at significant risk, you only have to look at the uk with 10,000's of retail job losses and stores closing every day (this week it's topshop).

The (Chinese?) machines run themselves and the software only gets written once, machines only get installed once, with minor updates/tweaks as needed, remotely send in from a handful of coders.

Retail is in line for further hits, thanks to tap'n go wireless payments (high trans speed). Then there is the rise of FRS (major privacy issues also), whereby your face can be recognised on the way in, doing away with those extra seconds of card tapping.

As for automation in general, this is only early Wave1 it's barely started. Estimates are for circa 40% workforce replacement come the early/mid 2030's.

A current top7 POTUS 2020 candidate isn't running soley on UBI for the sake of it.

Yes, some new jobs but the overall certainty is lower than expected losses.

ohnonotgmail · 23-05-2019 01:24PM

Time for the return of the Luddites.

kneemos · 23-05-2019 01:30PM

Drake Weak Waiter wrote: »

Many reports suggest the losses will be greater than the gains.

Retail is at significant risk, you only have to look at the uk with 10,000's of retail job losses and stores closing every day (this week it's topshop).

The (Chinese?) machines run themselves and the software only gets written once, machines only get installed once, with minor updates/tweaks as needed, remotely send in from a handful of coders.

Retail is in line for further hits, thanks to tap'n go wireless payments (high trans speed). Then there is the rise of FRS (major privacy issues also), whereby your face can be recognised on the way in, doing away with those extra seconds of card tapping.

As for automation in general, this is only early Wave1 it's barely started. Estimates are for circa 40% workforce replacement come the early/mid 2030's.

A current top7 POTUS 2020 candidate isn't running soley on UBI for the sake of it.

Yes, some new jobs but the overall certainty is lower than expected losses.

The interweb is killing retail, people aren't buying less.
Jobs will transfer to warehouse and delivery. Maybe fewer staff required for the warehouse but with the added delivery jobs.

Beta Ray Bill · 23-05-2019 01:40PM

There is a number of valid reasons why the Self Service tills are on the up.

First and foremost, Very few people do a big weekly shop anymore.
They go in and pick up a few bits and pieces 10 items or less.
Self Service tills are perfect for this.

Secondly they require less floor space than a till operated by a worker.
This means more space for shelves or add more self service tills which are faster than staff operated tills

Thirdly, they are way more secure from staff dipping the tills and/or being held up by robbers.

Final thought.
Working on a Till for your career.... Really?
I know people that have done it, I've no idea how.
It's such a low paid job, with zero benefits.

Self service tills are so successful now that even McDonalds are using them.
If the Machine can do the job 100's of times better than a human, then so be it

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 01:42PM

kneemos wrote: »

The interweb is killing retail, people aren't buying less.
Jobs will transfer to warehouse and delivery. Maybe fewer staff required for the warehouse but with the added delivery jobs.

Buying less would actually help (reduce) the wealth transfer to China, isn't really a factor anyway (as to quantity/quality of purchases) regarding automation.

Amazon don't need humans in their warehouses, Some of the floor bots they have already can detect and avoid any human that gets in their way during their non-stop 24/7 shift.

Delivery will likely move to pick-up depots (less people required), in the states 3.5m long-haul drivers are at risk (hence Yang is a strong candidate). Yes the final mile delivery is tricky, but that's where (singular) staff, or FRS pick-up points come in.

Del2005 · 23-05-2019 01:52PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

As a customer the proliferation of these in supermarkets is great. It's fast, easy to use.

As a worker maybe not so much.

The attraction for stores is not only customer convenience but cutting staff overheads simultaneously.

A local small supermarket recently went all in on self service tills in recent months and now have pretty much no till workers.

The change was dramatic like overnight a number of till workers were simply laid off.

But the effect is even more dramatic in my local Tesco - about 10 tills and all but one with a till worker (at the busiest time) - and one other person overseeing multiple self service tills.

There has been a lot said about technology effecting jobs but this is probably the most visible sign of it I have seen so far.

One wonders what the people who had those jobs or would have had them are going to do.

Surprised more has not been said about it in relation to job losses which across the country must be a lot, many thousands?

Hopefully these workers can train up and get other jobs.

I was in my local Dunnes before they installed the Self service tills. I was in a queue of 10 people for the only till open while half a dozen staff stood around talking. They now have self service tills and I rarely queue.

When cars took over from horses thousands of jobs were lost, when diesel/electric took over from steam on the rails thousands of jobs were lost. Yet no one is calling for us to go back to the horse and cart or steam locomotives.

The people who worked the tills will either retrain or take another minimum wage job, is you work a minimum wage job then it doesn't matter what you do.

Wheety · 23-05-2019 01:57PM

grahambo wrote: »

Final thought.
Working on a Till for your career.... Really?
I know people that have done it, I've no idea how.
It's such a low paid job, with zero benefits.

Self service tills are so successful now that even McDonalds are using them.
If the Machine can do the job 100's of times better than a human, then so be it

More women than men work on the tills for their working career. I used to work in a supermarket and the majority of these women had a husband earning more and they worked in a supermarket for supplementary income and the social element.

The McDonald's ones are great. They're doing massive work installing them everywhere. The Grafton Street branch was closed for a few weeks while they revamped it. Only one person on the till now for the people who refuse to use the self service ones.

You can order exactly what you want on the machines too. Remove an item from a burger or add something.

The Real B-man · 23-05-2019 02:01PM

my3cents wrote: »

I wonder how good are these Self Service Tills are at catching shop lifters. The ones that don't pay for anything.

A reduction in staff looks like an invitation to shop lift?

https://www.joe.co.uk/news/playstation-4-self-checkout-till-fruit-218059 :pac:

Guy:Incognito · 23-05-2019 02:09PM

TuringBot47 wrote: »

.

But if you've put a barcode of a bottle of water over the barcode of a bottle of whiskey I imagine you could fool the system, but not a cashier.

The bottle of whiskey is going to have to weigh the same as the bottle of water though.

Plus , do moat supermarkets not have security caps on the bottles that need to be taken off by the person at the tills too?

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2019 02:10PM

degsie wrote: »

Look at how many farriers lost their jobs when the motor car came along

Yeah that's funny but nobody is saying we should shun technology. We can think of how to retrain people and make sure people face the skills necessary. We can avoid having people who do a grand job and then have the job pulled from under them and they're left stranded.

Guy:Incognito · 23-05-2019 02:12PM

degsie wrote: »

Look at how many farriers lost their jobs when the motor car came along

Surely they just transitioned in to fittings tyres instead. Plus a car is much more compliant when being fitted for new shoes

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2019 02:14PM

my3cents wrote: »

I wonder how good are these Self Service Tills are at catching shop lifters. The ones that don't pay for anything.

A reduction in staff looks like an invitation to shop lift?

I wouldn't worry about it. I'm sure the shops have done the cost benefit analysis. They could afford More shoplifting if it cuts costs enough.

BeerWolf · 23-05-2019 02:15PM

That's a lot of trust on the general public.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 02:18PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

We can think of how to retrain people and make sure people face the skills necessary.

Agree, however the tricky part is that going forward it requires almost continuous, high-level education to keep pace with the rate of technological advacement.

Which in turn requires great expense, time and motivation.

Before long Joe Doe won't just be competing with Jane Duff, but with an artifical (near-super) automated intelligence.

Gimme A Pound · 23-05-2019 02:45PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

On the plus side, it's created lots of jobs for people that can shout Next!

I wonder do the staff in Next do that.

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2019 02:55PM

Drake Weak Waiter wrote: »

Agree, however the tricky part is that going forward it requires almost continuous, high-level education to keep pace with the rate of technological advacement.

Which in turn requires great expense, time and motivation.

Before long Joe Doe won't just be competing with Jane Duff, but with an artifical (near-super) automated intelligence.

It will definitely cost money. No doubt about that. But people who slip out of employment and rely on social welfare and related social problems that come from poverty and unemployment and criminality are also expensive.

Completely worth investing in.

Arghus · 23-05-2019 03:01PM

There'll always be some employment for real human beings to fix the endless problems with the machines and help the people who can't use them properly without making a complete balls of it.

4068ac1elhodqr · 23-05-2019 03:06PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It will definitely cost money. No doubt about that. But people who slip out of employment and rely on social welfare and related social problems that come from poverty and unemployment and criminality are also expensive.

Completely worth investing in.

Agree, but 5/10yr plans along with UBI, 30hr flexi-weeks, free education, training benefits and so on, generally won't win elections (see France).

Indeed it would require massive wealth re-distribution, higher corp taxes, higher VAT, closing of avoidance loopholes, stopping tax havens, restricting inheritance trust funds and so on and on.

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2019 03:09PM

Drake Weak Waiter wrote: »

Agree, but 5/10yr plans along with UBI, 30hr flexi-weeks, free education, training benefits and so on, generally won't win elections (see France).

Indeed it would require massive wealth re-distribution, higher corp taxes, higher VAT, closing of avoidance loopholes, stopping tax havens, restricting inheritance trust funds and so on and on.

I wouldn't have a problem with any of the measures in your post but I know it's not fashionable to discuss wealth redistribution.

ToddyDoody · 23-05-2019 03:10PM

Where's the friendliness of them though? Can they not be programmed to say 'have a nice day'?

Feisar · 23-05-2019 03:11PM

We always seem to think it's jobs on the lower end of the spectrum that are at risk. I work in construction. I'd say a structural engineer is facing as much or possibly more risk of being replaced as a laborer.

El_Duderino 09 · 23-05-2019 03:17PM

Feisar wrote: »

We always seem to think it's jobs on the lower end of the spectrum that are at risk. I work in construction. I'd say a structural engineer is facing as much or possibly more risk of being replaced as a laborer.

I work with accountant auditors and they're going to be under severe pressure in the near future too. Lots of jobs are going to go automated. There will still need to be some to make judgements but lots more work will get done with fewer people employed.

The same principle applies to highly skilled people. They will need help to reskill too.

PandaPoo · 23-05-2019 03:22PM

grahambo wrote: »

Final thought.
Working on a Till for your career.... Really?
I know people that have done it, I've no idea how.
It's such a low paid job, with zero benefits.

I work in Tesco, my husband is the big earner in our house and I don't need to work but do it because I really enjoy it and like to make my own money. The people I work with that are there years are making a lot more than you would think, I know I was shocked when I was told. The benefits are ok, retirement savings plans, big discounts on gym memberships etc.

Jurgen Klopp · 23-05-2019 03:23PM

My favourite thing in regards to current automation talk is all this talk of only people working at tils, taxi drivers and other low skill jobs need worry and upskill

The funny part is automation will remove plenty of jobs from all levels, whether it's accountants, IT Professionals, etc

Are you a software developer or coder? Well looky here a new user friendly program that lets 10 coders do what it took 50 to do 5 years back

An accountant? Well we've a new piece of software that lets 1 account easily do what it took 3 to do last year

In fact there's plenty with masters and PHDs who could be applying for those "minimum wage jobs" along with some poor till worker that was let go

FTA69 · 23-05-2019 03:24PM

You're all mad if you think the only jobs that will be lost to automation will be low-skill, repetitive ones. Things like law, accountancy and financial trading as well as things like software development are all at massive risk as well. Automation is something that will affect all levels of the economy with the possible exception of education and care as someone has mentioned already.

We are looking at the mass replacement of well-payed, skilled jobs and the spread of low-paid precarious work that will leave people in the sh*t. There's a reason things like universal basic income and whatnot has become a big talking point. The way I see it, we'll all end up on some crap dole-type system and see the hypercommercialisation of everyday stuff; we can already see that now with paying people to paint nails and walk dogs etc.

Automation could have huge benefits for the majority, but it should come with wages staying the same and a decrease in the working week - not tossing people on the scrapheap while profits accumulate for the very few at the top.

road_high · 23-05-2019 03:24PM

One thing I can never figure it in various shops- you have a massive queue of people there wanting to spend their money but at the same time there are often lots of staff milling around not looking very busy, stacking shelves or what not. The no 1 priority should be to sell to and serve the customers. Super valu are brutal for this

MrMusician18 · 23-05-2019 03:25PM

my3cents wrote: »

I wonder how good are these Self Service Tills are at catching shop lifters. The ones that don't pay for anything.

A reduction in staff looks like an invitation to shop lift?

The shops obviously know about this. A bank of ten self service tills probably replaces about 5-6 members of staff. When you total the cost of a minimum wage employees, it comes to about €15/hr, so you'd have to be seeing stock loss through the tills of €75/hr, which is a lot of groceries.

By securing small, high value items, like batteries and razors, stock loss, or shrinkage as it's known in the trade, can be controlled to a level that it makes more profitable to have self service tills rather than staff

Self service tills and job losses

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