Eirgrid figures during night time EV charging

machiavellianme · 11-05-2019 09:55AM

macnab wrote: »

The grid bring on gas plants at around 6am to get ready for the morning peak. That will reduce the ratio of wind/renewables so your figures will probably be affected.

Priority dispatch for wind and hydro. Units starting just meet the rising demand and won't be adding to curtailment (in general) unless system security is at risk.

machiavellianme · 11-05-2019 09:57AM

Round Cable wrote: »

Looks like our electricity supply is getting greener in the last while. We've had at least 25 days straight without burning coal to generate electricity on the island of Ireland. According to Eirgrid, Moneypoint was available throughout this period but it just wasn't cost competitive.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/ireland-goes-25-days-without-using-coal-to-generate-electricity-1.3888166

Also Ireland had the third biggest drop in CO2 emissions in the EU from the electricity generating sector in 2018. It was down 6.8% largely due to the forced outages at Moneypoint.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-co2-emissions-plunge-after-coalfired-power-plant-shutdown-38092953.html

Wrong. Kilroot has been generating away. Worse still, because Moneypoint 2 is unavailable, Tarbert is on to support voltage control overnight in the south west due to all the new underground cables. It burns oil.

marno21 · 11-05-2019 09:58AM

EirGrid group chief executive Mark Foley said this was “a really positive development” as coal was the most carbon intense of all electricity sources.

I hadn't realised we had started using "clean peat" technology in Ireland.

machiavellianme · 11-05-2019 10:09AM

marno21 wrote: »

I hadn't realised we had started using "clean peat" technology in Ireland.

Edenderry power uses 30% biomass with the peat. Not sure about the other 2.
Probably still filthy even with the biomass though.

Round Cable · 11-05-2019 10:13AM

machiavellianme wrote: »

Wrong. Kilroot has been generating away. Worse still, because Moneypoint 2 is unavailable, Tarbert is on to support voltage control overnight in the south west due to all the new underground cables. It burns oil.

Not according to the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-48229970

ted1 · 11-05-2019 10:36AM

machiavellianme wrote: »

Edenderry power uses 30% biomass with the peat. Not sure about the other 2.
Probably still filthy even with the biomass though.

Planning permission lodged to go to full biomass

Also moneypoint Unit 3 didn’t get picked up in the latest auction. So won’t be running in 2022

machiavellianme · 11-05-2019 10:37AM

Round Cable wrote: »

Not according to the BBC.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-48229970

The BBC are wrong so. Check the sem-o website. On the public reports you can clearly see that GU_500823 was generating on the 6th and 7th of May. GU_500822 was generating on the 13th to 15th April.
Both sets of dates are inside the BBCs range.

The report you want is daily dispatch instructions (D+1).

machiavellianme · 11-05-2019 10:41AM

ted1 wrote: »

Planning permission lodged to go to full biomass

Also moneypoint Unit 3 didn’t get picked up in the latest auction. So won’t be running in 2022

Hadn't heard about the full biomass. An interesting development if they have a fuel supply.

Think its MP2 not MP3 who weren't successful but there's still the T+1 auction and capacity is available there too.

rolion · 15-05-2019 10:03AM

Just wondering if there is an option or a way to requst to see how much "excess" electricity is being fed back to grid from the house's PVs fitted under recent grants !?

KCross · 15-05-2019 10:35AM

rolion wrote: »

Just wondering if there is an option or a way to requst to see how much "excess" electricity is being fed back to grid from the house's PVs fitted under recent grants !?

The only ones they would know about are those people who have import/export meters. I dont think most SolarPV installs have those?

If you dont have one of those then no one knows how much is being fed back, not even ESB Networks.... the electricity just gets fed in and used. You cant track an electron around the grid!

n97 mini · 15-05-2019 04:41PM

KCross wrote: »

The only ones they would know about are those people who have import/export meters. I dont think most SolarPV installs have those?

If you dont have one of those then no one knows how much is being fed back, not even ESB Networks.... the electricity just gets fed in and used. You cant track an electron around the grid!

My meter records export, but does not display it. The handheld scanner thing is required for that. I wonder do the meter readers use those and record that information?

antoinolachtnai · 15-05-2019 07:13PM

n97 mini wrote: »

My meter records export, but does not display it. The handheld scanner thing is required for that. I wonder do the meter readers use those and record that information?

This is not recorded unless there is a four channel meter (the type used on large sites which reports import and export for every quarter hour) as far as I know. It certainly never makes it to market systems.

It’s easy enough for ESBn to estimate the microgeneration. You could do it yourself if you had some stats on the numbers of sites with panels installed and then combining it with the weather reports.

KCross · 15-05-2019 08:36PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It’s easy enough for ESBn to estimate the microgeneration. You could do it yourself if you had some stats on the numbers of sites with panels installed and then combining it with the weather reports.

What use is that though unless you know what the household has used.

I might be at work all day giving it all away to the grid for free or I might have my car charging with a Zappi and giving nothing away for free and everything in between. They have no way of knowing unless its metered.

antoinolachtnai · 15-05-2019 08:38PM

If you/they want to know at the individual house level, yes you would certainly need to install a meter. But what is the point in ESBn knowing, unless someone is going to pay you for the electricity?

KCross · 15-05-2019 08:52PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

If you/they want to know at the individual house level, yes you would certainly need to install a meter. But what is the point in ESBn knowing, unless someone is going to pay you for the electricity?

We'll have to ask rolion.... it was his question...

rolion wrote: »

Just wondering if there is an option or a way to requst to see how much "excess" electricity is being fed back to grid from the house's PVs fitted under recent grants !?

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 02:47PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

This is not recorded unless there is a four channel meter (the type used on large sites which reports import and export for every quarter hour) as far as I know. It certainly never makes it to market systems.

I have the manual for the meter here. It says it records it and gives instructions on how to read it. The meter is currently flashing "rEd" on the display, which means it has detected export power.

antoinolachtnai · 16-05-2019 03:08PM

n97 mini wrote: »

I have the manual for the meter here. It says it records it and gives instructions on how to read it. The meter is currently flashing "rEd" on the display, which means it has detected export power.

Sure. ESB don’t read it though. What type of meter is it (can you see the make and RM number)?

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 03:12PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Sure. ESB don’t read it though. What type of meter is it (can you see the make and RM number)?

Sorry, I misunderstood you; thought you were saying the *meter* doesn't record it.

It's one of these:
http://www.esbic.ie/rmds-aris/ob981e103-beaa-11e1-675a-005056891b13.htm

antoinolachtnai · 16-05-2019 03:48PM

n97 mini wrote: »

Sorry, I misunderstood you; thought you were saying the *meter* doesn't record it.

It's one of these:
http://www.esbic.ie/rmds-aris/ob981e103-beaa-11e1-675a-005056891b13.htm

The rEd light on this meter is supposed to detect if something is seriously wrong I think. (To make sure the technician doesn’t install it backwards as much as anything else).

Is there actually a register which records export?

KCross · 16-05-2019 03:57PM

If the current meter has the ability to record export why do ESBn charge you €350 to install an import/export meter?

Do they actually put in a different meter for the €350 and if so, why?

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 05:05PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

The rEd light on this meter is supposed to detect if something is seriously wrong I think.

It's not a light. The display alternates between day units, night units, time, and the text "rEd", which stands for reverse energy detected. It's normal behaviour for this meter with a setup such as solar that can export power.

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 05:07PM

KCross wrote: »

If the current meter has the ability to record export why do ESBn charge you €350 to install an import/export meter?

Do they actually put in a different meter for the €350 and if so, why?

I'd say that across the country very few meters can record it, and even less will display it.

I believe the 350 will get you a meter that you can read the export figure yourself.

KCross · 16-05-2019 06:27PM

n97 mini wrote: »

I'd say that across the country very few meters can record it, and even less will display it.

I believe the 350 will get you a meter that you can read the export figure yourself.

Is there any chance that what you have is one of the import/export meters?
Was it installed "recently"?

antoinolachtnai · 16-05-2019 07:27PM

KCross wrote: »

Is there any chance that what you have is one of the import/export meters?
Was it installed "recently"?

An import/export meter is a 4-channel quarter hour meter. It sends the readings every day by a radio link. This is the one that costs a few hundred euros. These aren’t being installed anymore in residential as far as I know.

The very loose plan seems to be to use the new smart meters as the import/export meter for residential. None of these have been installed yet.

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 07:37PM

KCross wrote: »

Is there any chance that what you have is one of the import/export meters?
Was it installed "recently"?

Possible. It was installed about 9 or 10 years ago when I switched to night rate (previous meter was spinning wheel). ESB introduced their FIT around that time I think?

I know that shortly after we got it the meter reader flagged it and ESBN man came out to inspect. Turned out it was just a type of meter the reader hadn't seen before.

n97 mini · 16-05-2019 07:40PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

It sends the readings every day by a radio link.

What system is used? I know ESBN trialled meters with GSM modems in very remote areas way back, but discontinued as they discovered mobile operators were turning off their masts at night to save electricity.

antoinolachtnai · 16-05-2019 07:51PM

n97 mini wrote: »

What system is used? I know ESBN trialled meters with GSM modems in very remote areas way back, but discontinued as they discovered mobile operators were turning off their masts at night to save electricity.

It is GPRS. But this is usually only used for industrial and commercial customers, > 250MWh a year I think. So these are mostly urban.

rolion · 16-05-2019 08:53PM

I've experienced three types of meters:

Older one, analogue wheel.
This one was spining backwards AND registering excess energy supplied in the grid as chargeable...
HIGHLY advisable to replace it asap as it could create problems.

Being replaced by this digital here,dual tariff and i guess,import / export meter if modified (not sure here)

Then,i bough independent a second meter from UK that i ve installed DIY to measure and validate the official ESB one.
Bough online from UK,uses 3G and does half hour readings and daily uploads to dashboard.

NIMAN · 20-05-2019 05:15AM

Anyone remember the figures that used to be touted to justify paying extra for a night rate meter?

I never really took much notice of my usage, probably should have.
Had a good look tonight and here's my figures off my Bord Gais bills:

Bill, No of Days, Day Units , Night Units

1, ,,,,, 43 days, ,,,,, 375 ,,,,, 517
2, ,,,,, 67 days, ,,,,, 603 ,,,,, 831
3, ,,,,, 6 days, ,,,,, ,, 34 ,,,,, , 47
4, ,,,,, 16 days, ,,,,, 86 ,,,,, , 117
5, ,,,,, 58 days, ,,,,, 303 ,,,,, 468
6, ,,,,, 61 days, ,,,,, 381 ,,,,, 545
7, ,,,,, 57 days, ,,,,, 402 ,,,,, 575
8, ,,,,, 81 days, ,,,,, 643 ,,,,, 725

The EV is obviously the main hitter using the night rate. The only other thing used is the washing machine most nights. And very occasionally the dryer.

I took Bill #1, the 43 day one, and used that as an average guide.
Calculated what it would cost on the dual rate tariff versus old tariff I was on, the one with the set rate day or night.
I seemed to be saving €14.55, or 33.8c per day, or €123.50 annually.

OK its a saving, but I was expecting it to be more than that tbh.

ted1 · 20-05-2019 06:33AM

rolion wrote: »

I've experienced three types of meters:

Older one, analogue wheel.
This one was spining backwards AND registering excess energy supplied in the grid as chargeable...
HIGHLY advisable to replace it asap as it could create problems.

Being replaced by this digital here,dual tariff and i guess,import / export meter if modified (not sure here)

Then,i bough independent a second meter from UK that i ve installed DIY to measure and validate the official ESB one.
Bough online from UK,uses 3G and does half hour readings and daily uploads to dashboard.

Is that the current state of your consumer unit?

Eirgrid figures during night time EV charging

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