Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

Interested Observer · 19-05-2019 4:47pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well clearly Fla hasn't. He has build one of the best defences in Europe. Or am I incorrect?

Jones is doing it 3 years, only 2 mind you as attack, his results so far are 3 European semis, 2 Pro14 semis and a Pro 12 Final...

He has had 2 head coach's in that time?

Im not sure the finger should be pointed at Jones/Fla.....

Rather than just quoting their results again, look at what actually happens on the pitch. They've just gone two league knockout games without scoring a try. Maybe if that changed they'd be making finals or even winning a trophy. If you think their attack is good enough then off you go but JvG clearly didn't.

salmocab · 19-05-2019 4:47pm

mun1 wrote: »

Have they spent more on one province at a point where they needed the help ?
Of course they have, its in the IRFU interests to have all the province blazing away.
Stop getting so annoyed .

Getting this munster thread back on track and Going back to my last question, who would you bring in as a munster coach if you could pick someone.

I think someone like Lancaster should be allocated by the IRFU as its their province to manage. He obviously a top coach and gets the best out of what he has.
Dean Richards would be my preference

If you really wanted to get the thread back in topic you wouldn’t be using the word allocated. You know full well how Lancaster ended up at Leinster but you want to get some strange dig in.

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 4:50pm

Interested Observer wrote: »

Rather than just quoting their results again, look at what actually happens on the pitch. They've just gone two league knockout games without scoring a try. Maybe if that changed they'd be making finals or even winning a trophy. If you think their attack is good enough then off you go but JvG clearly didn't.

Did I say the attack was good enough? I just think the easy answer is sack the lads. As I posted already a head coach sitting above both of the guys would seem a decent option to me. Then move Van Grann to Director.

They guys are gone. So what do you think? just hire 2 replacements?

Interested Observer · 19-05-2019 4:53pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did I say the attack was good enough? I just think the easy answer is sack the lads. As I posted already a head coach sitting above both of the guys would seem a decent option to me. Then move Van Grann to Director.

They guys are gone. So what do you think? just hire 2 replacements?

I think they should have tried to keep Flannery and he is a loss but yes certainly Jones should be replaced with someone who can get more from the players. Bringing in someone above him is pointless imo, what is Jones' role in that instance?

The Lost Sheep · 19-05-2019 4:53pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

As above Fla and Jones had gone on off season to SH last year to skill up. Who is to say they couldn't do the same this year.

A senior coach over Jones would help provide huge guidance. That was the original plan with Rassie, Rassie was Director, Foley was top coach and then he had team around him.

Now you have Van Grann and the 2 lads. Why not move Van Grann up to Director which he was hired for and bring in experience head coach to sit above the 2 guys? give it 2 season?

From what happened it would suggest that Munster didnt want either of them.

Perhaps it does and wouldnt have too many complaints if that was the case. A senior coach over Jones may have provided huge guidance but i dont see Jones being in place again as what would be best for Munster. DOR means different things different places he is DOR/Head Coach and what real benefit in just adding a head coach when you have DOR there? What does that add??

mun1 wrote: »

Have they spent more on one province at a point where they needed the help?
Of course they have, its in the IRFU interests to have all the province blazing away.
Stop getting so annoyed.

Getting this munster thread back on track and Going back to my last question, who would you bring in as a munster coach if you could pick someone.

I think someone like Lancaster should be allocated by the IRFU as its their province to manage. He obviously a top coach and gets the best out of what he has.
Dean Richards would be my preference

Lancaster wasnt allocated by anyone so suggesting that isnt getting the thread back on topic and there's no chance Richards will come here
And im not annoyed at all. You're the one getting frustrated..

mun1 · 19-05-2019 4:55pm

salmocab wrote: »

If you really wanted to get the thread back in topic you wouldn’t be using the word allocated. You know full well how Lancaster ended up at Leinster but you want to get some strange dig in.

Why would you call it a strange dig ?(whatever that means)
Lancaster was hired by the Leinster branch of the IRFU . Does that sound better to you ?
Carberry to munster was the same employer allocating their resources to best effect. Is allocating the wrong word ?

Does Lancaster not deserve credit for Leinsters turnaround since 2016 ?

Interested Observer · 19-05-2019 4:58pm

Since Leinster have won a number of trophies in the last few years, and both Leinster and Munster are part of the IRFU, Munster have actually won the trophies too. You heard it her first folks.

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 5:02pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Perhaps it does and wouldnt have too many complaints if that was the case. A senior coach over Jones may have provided huge guidance but i dont see Jones being in place again as what would be best for Munster. DOR means different things different places he is DOR/Head Coach and what real benefit in just adding a head coach when you have DOR there? What does that add??

DOR would look after buying players etc. All the off the field stuff but also coming up with ideas

Head Coach would be on pitch day to day, working with the DOR on the future playing styles etc and implementing the DOR plans

Coaching team around head coach, they would work on specific areas of expertise on implementing plan given down from head coach/DOR

This was the original plan with Rassie came in. With Foley as head coach. Unfortuneatly that did not last long.

It was said that Van Grann replace Rassie as DOR but no head coach was announced.

I think it was mentioned a few times trying to do all the hiring, contracts, finding players, etc etc etc is very time consuming so that why a DOR make sense

Burkie1203 · 19-05-2019 5:03pm

mun1 wrote: »

Have they spent more on one province at a point where they needed the help ?
Of course they have, its in the IRFU interests to have all the province blazing away.

Yes on Munster. Quite recently.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rugby/irfu-chief-warns-there-will-be-no-more-munster-bailouts-399288.html

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/irfu-chief-does-not-believe-munster-can-make-debt-repayments-1.2723985

Quintis · 19-05-2019 5:06pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well clearly Fla hasn't. He has build one of the best defences in Europe. Or am I incorrect?

Yep, you are incorrect, JP Ferreira is defence coach

irishbucsfan · 19-05-2019 5:06pm

Doug Howlett leaving is very worrying. It could be a coincidence all these guys are going at the same time but it’s still a big task to fill their places, especially guys who meant so much to the province. It’s much more serious if their decisions to leave are linked

Erik Shun · 19-05-2019 5:08pm

Buer wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for Bernard Jackman as replacement for Flannery? Replace one test hooker who is a forwards coach with another albeit more experienced one.

Don't you bloody start

Erik Shun · 19-05-2019 5:15pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Doug Howlett leaving is very worrying. It could be a coincidence all these guys are going at the same time but it’s still a big task to fill their places, especially guys who meant so much to the province. It’s much more serious if their decisions to leave are linked

Is Dougie leaving? He's still head of commercial & marketing, no?

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 5:20pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Doug Howlett leaving is very worrying. It could be a coincidence all these guys are going at the same time but it’s still a big task to fill their places, especially guys who meant so much to the province. It’s much more serious if their decisions to leave are linked

I thought he would continue with Munster?

Buer · 19-05-2019 5:27pm

mun1 wrote:

Wouldnâ€™t mind him myself but Think he was considered but wasnâ€™t interviewed. Dirtied his bib with the dragons

Munster shouldn't let that get between them and their man. Dream big.

Cookiemunster · 19-05-2019 5:34pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Doug Howlett leaving is very worrying. It could be a coincidence all these guys are going at the same time but it’s still a big task to fill their places, especially guys who meant so much to the province. It’s much more serious if their decisions to leave are linked

Howlett has nothing to do with the playing squad or coaching, so him leaving isn't relevant to the discussion. The fact that Carbery and Beirne have extended their contracts after less than a season tells you things aren't as bad behind the scenes as some are trying to make out.

salmocab · 19-05-2019 5:38pm

mun1 wrote: »

Why would you call it a strange dig ?(whatever that means)
Lancaster was hired by the Leinster branch of the IRFU . Does that sound better to you ?
Carberry to munster was the same employer allocating their resources to best effect. Is allocating the wrong word ?

Does Lancaster not deserve credit for Leinsters turnaround since 2016 ?

It’s a strange dig because you think by saying it your taking away from Leinsters success.
Yes Lancaster was hired by the Leinster branch not allocated, but then again, you already knew that.

mun1 · 19-05-2019 5:48pm

salmocab wrote: »

It’s a strange dig because you think by saying it your taking away from Leinsters success.
Yes Lancaster was hired by the Leinster branch not allocated, but then again, you already knew that.

Sorry, none of that makes sense .

“Taking away from leinsters sucess” ???
“ you already knew that “ ???

Bit of a tetchy topic for you I’d say

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 5:48pm

salmocab wrote: »

It’s a strange dig because you think by saying it your taking away from Leinsters success.
Yes Lancaster was hired by the Leinster branch not allocated, but then again, you already knew that.

It's the standard dig fired at Leinster and Cullen. Make out Cullen is useless and it is all Lancaster, take Lancaster out and Leinster will be terrible....

I do admit this is a round about way to get to the point.

budhabob · 19-05-2019 5:52pm

Where are ye seeing that Doug is going? While that doesn't necessarily impact on the pitch, losing that much leadership in any organisation would be worrying....unless someone at the top is looking for a cultural clear out or something.

The Lost Sheep · 19-05-2019 5:58pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

DOR would look after buying players etc. All the off the field stuff but also coming up with ideas

Head Coach would be on pitch day to day, working with the DOR on the future playing styles etc and implementing the DOR plans

Coaching team around head coach, they would work on specific areas of expertise on implementing plan given down from head coach/DOR

This was the original plan with Rassie came in. With Foley as head coach. Unfortuneatly that did not last long.

It was said that Van Grann replace Rassie as DOR but no head coach was announced.

I think it was mentioned a few times trying to do all the hiring, contracts, finding players, etc etc etc is very time consuming so that why a DOR make sense

All depends on what set up is within the organisation and DOR may may not be one buying players. DOR may simply be the head coach and also have that responsibility as well.
Van Grann then just became the primary coach as well as having those off field issues under his control

Erik Shun wrote: »

Is Dougie leaving? He's still head of commercial & marketing, no?

Not from anything ive seen. He's in commercial role as you say and has nothing to do with the playing/on pitch issues

mun1 wrote: »

Sorry, none of that makes sense .

“Taking away from leinsters sucess” ???
“ you already knew that “ ???

Bit of a tetchy topic for you I’d say

What are you on about?

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 5:59pm

I see a it of a pattern already after just over 40 posts on boards

mun1 wrote: »

Sorry, none of that makes sense .

“Taking away from leinsters sucess” ???
“ you already knew that “ ???

Bit of a tetchy topic for you I’d say

mun1 wrote: »

You seem quite angry.
Leinster are a very good team. Last week they lost to a great team, this week they beat an average team.
Is that not enough ?

mun1 wrote: »

That the same Mick Dawson who ultimately works for the IRFU ?
Why so touchy about the help given to Leinster in their time of need ?
I only hope they can do the same for munster.

mun1 wrote: »

Have they spent more on one province at a point where they needed the help ?
Of course they have, its in the IRFU interests to have all the province blazing away.
Stop getting so annoyed

Cookiemunster · 19-05-2019 6:03pm

budhabob wrote: »

Where are ye seeing that Doug is going? While that doesn't necessarily impact on the pitch, losing that much leadership in any organisation would be worrying....unless someone at the top is looking for a cultural clear out or something.

There's reports that he's heading back to New Zealand. So its not likely to be related to Flannery and Jones leaving. I'm not sure how much leadership he brings really. He's in a marketing role and can easily be replaced.

salmocab · 19-05-2019 6:09pm

mun1 wrote: »

Sorry, none of that makes sense .

“Taking away from leinsters sucess” ???
“ you already knew that “ ???

Bit of a tetchy topic for you I’d say

It makes sense don’t worry about that, everyone here sees what your at, the usual pre provincial banter has to the most part turned into gracious defeat or victory. A couple of people aren’t able for that notably yourself who has spent the day after re-regestering taking swipes at posters.
I’m sure you’ll be back pretending you don’t understand but don’t worry we all know.

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 6:19pm

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

All depends on what set up is within the organisation and DOR may may not be one buying players. DOR may simply be the head coach and also have that responsibility as well.
Van Grann then just became the primary coach as well as having those off field issues under his control

I am going based on the role Rassie was doing, he was the one buying players etc.

If the head coach has those roles as well then he has a heavy workload.

Shefwedfan · 19-05-2019 6:20pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

There's reports that he's heading back to New Zealand. So its not likely to be related to Flannery and Jones leaving. I'm not sure how much leadership he brings really. He's in a marketing role and can easily be replaced.

He just signed up with Cork GAA for something didn't he? I never seen anything about heading home. He was on one of the podcasts recently saying how he loved it over here and his job in Munster etc

mun1 · 19-05-2019 6:32pm

salmocab wrote: »

It makes sense don’t worry about that, everyone here sees what your at, the usual pre provincial banter has to the most part turned into gracious defeat or victory. A couple of people aren’t able for that notably yourself who has spent the day after re-regestering taking swipes at posters.
I’m sure you’ll be back pretending you don’t understand but don’t worry we all know.

If its easier for you to think that then so be it.
Is it so hard to think for even one second that i maybe someway right ?

Also not a re-register as you could see if you went into my profile.

salmocab · 19-05-2019 6:35pm

mun1 wrote: »

If its easier for you to think that then so be it.
Is it so hard to think for even one second that i maybe someway right ?

Also not a re-register as you could see if you went into my profile.

Right about what? Lancaster wasn’t allocated to Leinster they went after him.

irishbucsfan · 19-05-2019 7:31pm

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Howlett has nothing to do with the playing squad or coaching, so him leaving isn't relevant to the discussion. The fact that Carbery and Beirne have extended their contracts after less than a season tells you things aren't as bad behind the scenes as some are trying to make out.

Of course it’s relevant when someone so influential leaves, even before you factor in how much his own job is influenced by where the team is going

fonecrusher1 · 19-05-2019 8:24pm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I just think the easy answer is sack the lads.

Wrong. They weren't sacked.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Well clearly Fla hasn't. He has build one of the best defences in Europe.

Wrong again as pointed out by someone else.

Priceless

You're one a roll today.

And what loyalty are you waffling on about? We're not loyal fans because Felix Jones and Jerry Flannery declined new contracts. Are Munster supposed to lock them in a room or something? Not one single Munster fan would have wanted this to pan out like this so cop on with your loyalty BS. Its utterly petty. Its very unfortunate and badly timed what has happened but they've made their decision.

Munster Team Talk Thread - Snymans are(n't) Forever

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