Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

Karl8415 · 15-05-2019 03:02PM

Does anybody know how leases work with aircraft.
Is there any similarities with car finance where after a set period of time and as long as payments are maintained then you own it or is it for example the LR’S that are due where EI would say that they expect to operate for example a 20 year period so repayments are set out over 20 years.Im asking out of curiosity because are they been leased so a vast amount of cash flow doesn’t gets tied up with each frame if they bought them.
So with the LR’s will they ever own them or will they always be leased to give flexibility to EI

billy few mates · 15-05-2019 05:07PM

Karl8415 wrote: »

Does anybody know how leases work with aircraft.
Is there any similarities with car finance where after a set period of time and as long as payments are maintained then you own it or is it for example the LR’S that are due where EI would say that they expect to operate for example a 20 year period so repayments are set out over 20 years.Im asking out of curiosity because are they been leased so a vast amount of cash flow doesn’t gets tied up with each frame if they bought them.
So with the LR’s will they ever own them or will they always be leased to give flexibility to EI

Most leases are operational leases where you basically just pay to rent the aircraft and hand it back when you're done with it. There are also finance leases which is basically like hire purchase and the operator will eventually own the aircraft but they're not actually that popular these days as most operators like the flexibility of operational leases and avoiding the long term cost of owning a depreciating asset that becomes more costly to maintain as it ages.
There are pros and cons to both.

Tenger · 15-05-2019 05:44PM

Leasing aircraft allows the airline to avoid massive capital investment upfront. The payments are spread over 5,10,15...... years. This gives stability to their forward planning.
In addition the flexibility of ‘renting’ rather than buying their aircraft means that if there is an industry downturn they can absorb the lease termination costs in return for reducing their asset inventory and the recurring costs associated with them.
Leasing also has stipulations about the return of the aircraft, the airline has to maintain it in a specified condition. ie, it’s been mentioned here that EI-EWR does not have a crew rest module fitted. EI probably would like this but perhaps the leasing company will not permit this change.

On a side note; A good few years back I had read that Boeing was reducing the options for galley configs on the B787. Apparently this was due to requests/pressure from the leasing industry who realized that less variations increased the value of their aircraft on the 2nd hand market.

Karl8415 · 15-05-2019 07:07PM

Thank you guys for taking the time to reply to my question I really appreciate it

joeysoap · 15-05-2019 08:01PM

I’m genuinely shocked. I booked flights for later in the year, and decided I would now book seats for the return journey.

€13.99 for the cheapest seats!.

I flew AL last month to Italy and the seats were €9.99, which I thought was pushing it a bit. I won’t be purchasing at these prices, I’ll wait for the 30 hours or check in at the airport. I suspect I won’t be the only one.

Meant to post: seats available up to row 29, rows 30-36 shaded grey. It’s down as a 320 but obviously they are prepared to change to 321. They even have the row with 4 seats only on map, so if it is changed nobody will have bought ‘dead’ seats.

Singer · 15-05-2019 08:43PM

Kind of related to the recent topic, but maybe worthy of its own thread - are there any good books or other resources available about the business operations of modern airlines? i.e. leasing, slot management, route planning, flight operations, etc. that are accessible to an interested outsider?

kevinandrew · 15-05-2019 10:31PM

joeysoap wrote: »

I’m genuinely shocked. I booked flights for later in the year, and decided I would now book seats for the return journey.

€13.99 for the cheapest seats!.

I flew AL last month to Italy and the seats were €9.99, which I thought was pushing it a bit. I won’t be purchasing at these prices, I’ll wait for the 30 hours or check in at the airport. I suspect I won’t be the only one.

Meant to post: seats available up to row 29, rows 30-36 shaded grey. It’s down as a 320 but obviously they are prepared to change to 321. They even have the row with 4 seats only on map, so if it is changed nobody will have bought ‘dead’ seats.

Advanced seat selection fees still start from €9.99 but can change depending on route, time of year or availability. A flight to London for example in October will have an advanced seat selection fee of €9.99 but a flight to Lanzarote on the same day will charge €12.99 and so on.

Aer Lingus don't push seat selection anywhere near as much as other carriers, even the so called "premium" brand at IAG, British Airways, charges Club World passengers to pick their seats.

I think waiting for online check in to open is fine, there's almost always lots of free seats available, even for families to sit together. I haven't paid for seat selection in a few years and I'm yet yo have a problem. It's a different story on long haul, I'll always pay for a seat as they sell out much quicker.

adam88 · 15-05-2019 11:05PM

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

joeysoap · 15-05-2019 11:59PM

Malaga. Pure profit as Adam posts. I’ll wait.

Jamie2k9 · 16-05-2019 12:24AM

They make almost nothing for seat selection. Most pre-selected seats are those assigned to plus and advantage fares and not those who book saver and pay extra. It's a non issue when there is no obligation to pay for seats and almost all customers who book are seated together.

kevinandrew · 16-05-2019 12:24AM

adam88 wrote: »

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

I don't think they've ever broken down the details but prior to the IAG take over ancillary revenue was somewhere around 14% of total revenue, not the highest but definitely up there, Ryanair in comparison was 25% while Wizz Air was 35% which makes them the top two.

sherology · 16-05-2019 09:13AM

With the a321LR, are EI adding a galley area or WCs between business and economy or is it more of a continuous cabin? With bassinets/baby-cot drop downs, and economy drifting up to use front WC, assume they'll want a bit of hardware/sound buffering between the cabins?

Any more info of dates or images?

Locker10a · 16-05-2019 10:00AM

sherology wrote: »

With the a321LR, are EI adding a galley area or WCs between business and economy or is it more of a continuous cabin? With bassinets/baby-cot drop downs, and economy drifting up to use front WC, assume they'll want a bit of hardware/sound buffering between the cabins?

Any more info of dates or images?

I would imagine it’s a bulkhead and a curtain, same as they have on the 757

Jack1985 · 16-05-2019 01:19PM

Locker10a wrote: »

I would imagine it’s a bulkhead and a curtain, same as they have on the 757

Fwd and Aft Galley, space-flex v2 galleys. As above a bulkhead and curtain to separate the Business cabin.

goingnowhere · 16-05-2019 02:10PM

So its going to be 2 WC in the back and 1 WC in the front and not 4 as current

GFrye · 16-05-2019 02:24PM

adam88 wrote: »

Interesting to note that seat selection fees are one hundred percent pure profit. Anyone any idea of what ei make on seat selection fees??

Other than the credit card processing fee, I don't think EI incurs any cost when someone pays to select a seat. So it may not be 100% profit, but probably close to it.

shanemul · 16-05-2019 05:50PM

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Locker10a · 16-05-2019 06:25PM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Fwd and Aft Galley, space-flex v2 galleys. As above a bulkhead and curtain to separate the Business cabin.

God knows how they’re going to provide a full meal service with those galleys! Unless they’ve split it into two galley units either side of 1R and 4R.

EIMH · 16-05-2019 06:30PM

shanemul wrote: »

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Those flights were cancelled for yesterday looks like ei-lax has problem on ground since Tue morning EI-DUZ is only other A330 on ground at present was probably due mtce today as it hasn't had a "rest" day since March
Hope one of them makes it today

GFrye · 16-05-2019 08:41PM

shanemul wrote: »

Anyone Know what aircraft is operating the EI108/109 today

Currently showing with a 2.5hr delay with a tech issue

Flightradar24 now shows EI-LAX operating EI109 today. Departure delayed 3:24.

Jack1985 · 16-05-2019 09:07PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

So its going to be 2 WC in the back and 1 WC in the front and not 4 as current

No, it will remain 4. There will be 1 at 1L and 3 at 4L.

Locker10a wrote: »

God knows how they’re going to provide a full meal service with those galleys! Unless they’ve split it into two galley units either side of 1R and 4R.

Talk to me about it.. but the bean counters know better. :rolleyes:

kevinandrew · 16-05-2019 11:06PM

What other options were there for galley space without affecting seat count? It looks like Airbus has utilised every possible inch of cabin floor space to squeeze everything in while maintaining a competitive seat count.

I wonder if TAP is going for the same galley layout, they have a near identical layout and cabin product to Aer Lingus. If TAP can manage it, anyone can...

NH2013 · 16-05-2019 11:25PM

Has an official seat map been published yet for the NEO?

joeysoap · 16-05-2019 11:30PM

I was talking to a friend who works for AL. I was just asking her how they are going manage the guaranteed overhead locker space for AerSpace customers. She said they weren’t informed yet but it might be ‘tricky’.

Also she didn’t know who would get priority in the case of overbooking the AerSpace customers or the overbooked passengers.

Might never happen of course.

Locker10a · 16-05-2019 11:48PM

joeysoap wrote: »

I was talking to a friend who works for AL. I was just asking her how they are going manage the guaranteed overhead locker space for AerSpace customers. She said they weren’t informed yet but it might be ‘tricky’.

Also she didn’t know who would get priority in the case of overbooking the AerSpace customers or the overbooked passengers.

Might never happen of course.

Part of the “guarantee” locker space is Priority boarding, ideally the Aer Space pax will board first. Alternatively if they don’t the crew may have an idea based on the manifest if there are AerSpace pax booked and what seat they’re in, and based on this info do their best to keep a space. That’s how I would imagine it will work.

Locker10a · 16-05-2019 11:49PM

kevinandrew wrote: »

What other options were there for galley space without affecting seat count? It looks like Airbus has utilised every possible inch of cabin floor space to squeeze everything in while maintaining a competitive seat count.

I wonder if TAP is going for the same galley layout, they have a near identical layout and cabin product to Aer Lingus. If TAP can manage it, anyone can...

I don’t think TAP have gone with the space flex galley V2

Jack1985 · 17-05-2019 12:56AM

Locker10a wrote: »

Part of the “guarantee” locker space is Priority boarding, ideally the Aer Space pax will board first. Alternatively if they don’t the crew may have an idea based on the manifest if there are AerSpace pax booked and what seat they’re in, and based on this info do their best to keep a space. That’s how I would imagine it will work.

Nothing agreed to yet !

Van.Bosch · 17-05-2019 01:11AM

Jack1985 wrote: »

Nothing agreed to yet !

Excellent planning - launch it without knowing how it will operate.

JCX BXC · 17-05-2019 01:19AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Excellent planning - launch it without knowing how it will operate.

It's not launched yet to be fair!

Van.Bosch · 17-05-2019 02:13AM

JCX BXC wrote: »

It's not launched yet to be fair!

It is - not live until Sept but it’s on sale. I get they have time but before going public, I would expect the details to be worked out.

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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