"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

threeball · 15-05-2019 12:13AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

In between these acts, he pushes a 10 year old to what he'd hoped would be the child's death and butchers Ned Stark's men. And that's just Season 1.

Jaime is not the altruistic golden boy some people are making him out to be.

That doesn't change the fact he defended the people on more than one occassion but like most people when push comes to shove he put himself first.

Foxtrol · 15-05-2019 12:22AM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Why wouldn’t she maintain it? She still had her army, her dragon, and all her political challengers are dead? The only person with a better claim has no interest in it, and incidentally in all likelihood will now kill her due to her actions.

What would you like me to clarify?

Because pretty much all she has left is a dragon.The army loyal to her is basically gone, her allied houses are dead aside from a handful of ship, her advisers are dead or she feels betrayed her, she doesn't even have the best claim to the throne and that word is out, her chance to marry Jon looks gone (and he betrayed her in her eyes), Jon's family looks to have it out for her and want independence for the North, the people see her as a foreign invader and prefer Jon and even Cersei over her.

Every city she touched in Essos turned into a complete disaster despite having no clear political challengers, even more so when she left each of them, and those where cities who the majority treated her like a saviour and she had an army of unsullied supported by the second sons.

Getting the bell to ring didn't mean she had 'won' and definitely didn't mean she had any power to keep it.

Paddy Cow · 15-05-2019 12:29AM

OneEyedORourke wrote: »

I would have preferred if Cersei had a more gruesome death - but I suppose there are only so many ways they could kill a pregnant woman that would be deemed acceptable.

Cersei's death was not how I expected it ..... as this is a non book readers thread I'm going to spoiler tag the rest because it pertains to the books.

In the books, part of the prophecy Cersei heard from the witch as a child, was that she would die in tears with the hands of the Valonqar around her neck (this was left out of the show). Valonqar means "little brother" so Cersei took that to mean Tyrion would try to strangle her, which is another reason for her to hate him. As the series went on, people started to believe that it was Jamie that would kill her.

I was convinced last week that was why Jamie was so desperate to get to Cersei - he could see how hateful she was and wanted to put a stop to the war. For me, Jamie killing Cersei would've completed his redemption arc and at first I was so confused when he comforted her and declared his love. It seemed so unfair that such a hateful b!tch got to die in the arms of her lover. I thought that if Jamie didn't kill her then she should've been captured, tortured and brutally killed for all the pain and suffering she brought on the world. Or at least died broken and alone in the Red Keep.

On reflection I realise I was wrong. For one thing, as someone else pointed out, she was pregnant with his child so why would he kill her? Looking back at his story, everything he has done, has been to get back to Cersei. He was never going to have a happy ever after with Brienne. I never saw the two of them as lovers and I think he only slept with her so that she was no longer a virgin.

Cersei died as prophesied, just not the way we predicted. We thought her little brother would be strangling her. Instead he had his hands around her neck so that he could look into her crying eyes and comfort her and they both died together. It was the one time the show subverted expectations and got it right. Their death was more about Jamie than Cersei, who was going to die anyways. The audience wanted Jamie to be a good person but he knew what he was. When he said to Brienne "Cersei is hateful and so am I", he might as well have broken the fourth wall.

Him choosing to die with Cersei is what he wanted and that's his redemption for all the sh!tty things he did in his life.

Because non-book readers don't know about that part of the prophecy, Cersei's death and Jamie's reason for being with her probably feel flat but for me it makes sense.

Teddy Daniels · 15-05-2019 12:32AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Cersei's death was not how I expected it ..... as this is a non book readers thread I'm going to spoiler tag the rest because it pertains to the books.
In the books, part of the prophecy Cersei heard from the witch as a child, was that she would die in tears with the hands of the Valonqar around her neck (this was left out of the show). Valonqar means "little brother" so Cersei took that to mean Tyrion would try to strangle her, which is another reason for her to hate him. As the series went on, people started to believe that it was Jamie that would kill her.

I was convinced last week that was why Jamie was so desperate to get to Cersei - he could see how hateful she was and wanted to put a stop to the war. For me, Jamie killing Cersei would've completed his redemption arc and at first I was so confused when he comforted her and declared his love. It seemed so unfair that such a hateful b!tch got to die in the arms of her lover. I thought that if Jamie didn't kill her then she should've been captured, tortured and brutally killed for all the pain and suffering she brought on the world. Or at least died broken and alone in the Red Keep.

On reflection I realise I was wrong. For one thing, as someone else pointed out, she was pregnant with his child so why would he kill her? Looking back at his story, everything he has done, has been to get back to Cersei. He was never going to have a happy ever after with Brienne. I never saw the two of them as lovers and I think he only slept with her so that she was no longer a virgin.

Cersei died as prophesied, just not the way we predicted. We thought her little brother would be strangling her. Instead he had his hands around her neck so that he could look into her crying eyes and comfort her and they both died together. It was the one time the show subverted expectations and got it right. Their death was more about Jamie than Cersei, who was going to die anyways. The audience wanted Jamie to be a good person but he knew what he was. When he said to Brienne "Cersei is hateful and so am I", he might as well have broken the fourth wall.

Him choosing to die with Cersei is what he wanted and that's his redemption for all the sh!tty things he did in his life.

Because non-book readers don't know about that part of the prophecy, Cersei's death and Jamie's reason for being with her probably feel flat but for me it makes sense.

thats not how i remember the words

~Rebel~ · 15-05-2019 12:45AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Without trial, she indiscriminately crucified 163 men due to their social standing after she’d won the battle for the city because she was vengeful about what some masters did to the slaves.

See, this is a great example of early steps towards a more brutal mindset - but what people want is further emotional development from this.

Her going mad is not a problem. The signs were all there for it to be the eventual choice. But they rushed the story (same as they did almost every aspect of the show) and didn't allow for continuous, consistent growth and change.

Just about all your points are based in plot, and story, but what people are annoyed over is character from a more close, intimate point of view. Who she is, and the way she sees the world, seen through her actual actions. We saw lots of violence, but there was always, always a justification, and a greater good for the subjects at its core.

For why people are upset, you have to think about the person, not the plot. This was like a successful, pragmatically ruthlessly effective but also compassionate general coming home from war, and then shooting up a school full of kids.

That is an emotional change so vast it cannot just come out of the blue like that. All violence is not created equal.

Foxtrol wrote: »

That's fair enough, though I would have liked to see you backing yourself up on an attempt to clarify how you felt Dany could have maintained the throne if she stopped when the bells rang.

I would actually say doing what she did is the one way she absolutely guarantees she can't maintain the throne.

You can rule by fear, as long as a balance is maintained. Cersei and Joffrey ruled by fear, for instance, by setting the precedent that if you fuck with them in any way, they will fuck you up. But for the most part, people are allowed to go about their business.

Dany guaranteed that someone would assassinate her before long, as she set the precedent that she's just gonna randomly kill innocent people without reason or provocation. You don't need to do something wrong for her to ruin your life. I mean, her Dad got taken down for being unpredictable and crazy enough for the kingdom to rise against him, and he never did anything even close to what she did.

She is now queen of a city in which every single inhabitant has a friend, or family member that she burned alive for no reason. Every chambermaid, every soldier, every chef, every stableboy. She's put herself in an ultimately untenable position.

The_Honeybadger · 15-05-2019 12:55AM

Foxtrol wrote: »

Because pretty much all she has left is a dragon.The army loyal to her is basically gone, her allied houses are dead aside from a handful of ship, her advisers are dead or she feels betrayed her, she doesn't even have the best claim to the throne and that word is out, her chance to marry Jon looks gone (and he betrayed her in her eyes), Jon's family looks to have it out for her and want independence for the North, the people see her as a foreign invader and prefer Jon and even Cersei over her.

Every city she touched in Essos turned into a complete disaster despite having no clear political challengers, even more so when she left each of them, and those where cities who the majority treated her like a saviour and she had an army of unsullied supported by the second sons.

Getting the bell to ring didn't mean she had 'won' and definitely didn't mean she had any power to keep it.

You’re trying to build it up in to something that it just isn’t. Her actions will get her killed in the end and that is what it’s all about, setting the scene for next week.It was never going to end well for her, it was just a matter of how and this is the way they have gone with it, all we need to find out next week is who actually kills her. While we have certainly seen a dark side to her they really have only made rushed attempts to bring this unhinged character out over a couple of shows.

Even given all of what you mention above mass genocide does not really solidify her position to any great degree. It’s not like she has solved her issues. People are going to be terrified of her and her dragon in particular regardless.

Paddy Cow · 15-05-2019 01:04AM

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

thats not how i remember the words

I only had my memory to go on and I've googled the words to refresh it and they say "When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." I'm so conflicted now. I was convinced last week Jamie would kill her but made peace with how it worked out. I actually liked how they died.

If those are the actual words it blows my theory out of the water and leaves me feeling empty. I was convinced last week that Jamie was going to kill her. There was no question in my mind. When he didn't, I didn't like it but I could explain it.

I know we're in the wrong thread to be discussing this but now I can see why everyone is so p!ssed off. A little brother was supposed to choke the life out of her and neither did.

Totally my bad and I take the shame

Ardillaun · 15-05-2019 01:42AM

Thought Dany was going to catch it from the scorpions and go down in flames pronto. Her Liverpoolesque turnaround there was a bit of a surprise to me and I'd have preferred something like fog or a moonless night to explain such a jump in form. Even a brief discussion about the tactical uses of dive-bombing beforehand might have been better. The subsequent destruction of the city was curiously prolonged given how many story lines had to be sorted out but, along with Jaime and Cersei's reunion, it did add some nuance to the good guys/bad guys dichotomy that GoT has fallen into a fair bit and recalled so many disasters from Pompeii to Hiroshima. What were the numerous spurts of green flame from the houses all about?

fash · 15-05-2019 03:54AM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Cersei's death was not how I expected it ..... as this is a non book readers thread I'm going to spoiler tag the rest because it pertains to the books.
In the books, part of the prophecy Cersei heard from the witch as a child, was that she would die in tears with the hands of the Valonqar around her neck (this was left out of the show). Valonqar means "little brother" so Cersei took that to mean Tyrion would try to strangle her, which is another reason for her to hate him. As the series went on, people started to believe that it was Jamie that would kill her.

I was convinced last week that was why Jamie was so desperate to get to Cersei - he could see how hateful she was and wanted to put a stop to the war. For me, Jamie killing Cersei would've completed his redemption arc and at first I was so confused when he comforted her and declared his love. It seemed so unfair that such a hateful b!tch got to die in the arms of her lover. I thought that if Jamie didn't kill her then she should've been captured, tortured and brutally killed for all the pain and suffering she brought on the world. Or at least died broken and alone in the Red Keep.

On reflection I realise I was wrong. For one thing, as someone else pointed out, she was pregnant with his child so why would he kill her? Looking back at his story, everything he has done, has been to get back to Cersei. He was never going to have a happy ever after with Brienne. I never saw the two of them as lovers and I think he only slept with her so that she was no longer a virgin.

Cersei died as prophesied, just not the way we predicted. We thought her little brother would be strangling her. Instead he had his hands around her neck so that he could look into her crying eyes and comfort her and they both died together. It was the one time the show subverted expectations and got it right. Their death was more about Jamie than Cersei, who was going to die anyways. The audience wanted Jamie to be a good person but he knew what he was. When he said to Brienne "Cersei is hateful and so am I", he might as well have broken the fourth wall.

Him choosing to die with Cersei is what he wanted and that's his redemption for all the sh!tty things he did in his life.

Because non-book readers don't know about that part of the prophecy, Cersei's death and Jamie's reason for being with her probably feel flat but for me it makes sense.

For me, this was Jaime's happy ending: dying in the arms of the woman he loved, dying at the time of his choosing, coming into the world together, leaving the world together etc. That is a pretty reasonable ending for a grey not black and white character. For me it feels like that was a proper GRRM story line that somehow managed to live through the D&D abomination.

Nalz · 15-05-2019 09:02AM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

You’re trying to build it up in to something that it just isn’t. Her actions will get her killed in the end and that is what it’s all about, setting the scene for next week.It was never going to end well for her, it was just a matter of how and this is the way they have gone with it, all we need to find out next week is who actually kills her. While we have certainly seen a dark side to her they really have only made rushed attempts to bring this unhinged character out over a couple of shows.

Even given all of what you mention above mass genocide does not really solidify her position to any great degree. It’s not like she has solved her issues. People are going to be terrified of her and her dragon in particular regardless.

Exactly. Great summary of what is the main flaw re Danys storyline.

Jaimes, Tyrions, Aryas and to a slightly lesser degree Cerseis, were almost as bad.

Sigh

turbbo · 15-05-2019 09:59AM

Nalz wrote: »

Exactly. Great summary of what is the main flaw re Danys storyline.

Jaimes, Tyrions, Aryas and to a slightly lesser degree Cerseis, were almost as bad.

Sigh

Nah! if they dragged the Dany turns bad storyline out it would make less sense Jon Tyrion et al would have turned on her way earlier before they got to KL, and it would take a lot of the plot twists out and slow the pace down too much. My main gripe is the way Drogon was able to destroy everything in the last episode and was tits on a bull before that.

Loafing Oaf · 15-05-2019 10:32AM

Ardillaun wrote: »

Thought Dany was going to catch it from the scorpions and go down in flames pronto. Her Liverpoolesque turnaround there was a bit of a surprise to me and I'd have preferred something like fog or a moonless night to explain such a jump in form. Even a brief discussion about the tactical uses of dive-bombing beforehand might have been better. The subsequent destruction of the city was curiously prolonged given how many story lines had to be sorted out but, along with Jaime and Cersei's reunion, it did add some nuance to the good guys/bad guys dichotomy that GoT has fallen into a fair bit and recalled so many disasters from Pompeii to Hiroshima. What were the numerous spurts of green flame from the houses all about?

Explosions of caches of wildfire, presumably placed there by Aerys Targaryen (Dany's dad) as part of his unfulfilled plan to burn down King's Landing as his enemies closed in. Although as it turned out the Mad King was only in the halfpenny place in pyromania stakes compared to his dragon-riding daughter.

http://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2019/05/232516/green-fire-game-of-thrones-wildfire-mad-king-daenerys

yourdeadwright · 15-05-2019 10:50AM

Hadn't it been mentioned many times that one Dragon was enough to take out a City ,

Also people saying the turn around in Dragon skills but didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

turbbo · 15-05-2019 11:32AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hadn't it been mentioned many times that one Dragon was enough to take out a City ,

Also people saying the turn around in Dragon skills but didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

That's a good point. Hadn't thought about that.

maximoose · 15-05-2019 11:36AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

He was miraculously sniped while they were casually flying along, don't see how that had any bearing on it

turbbo · 15-05-2019 11:38AM

maximoose wrote: »

He was miraculously sniped while they were casually flying along, don't see how that had any bearing on it

Yeah good counter argument - it wasn't obvious from watching that he was impeded - maybe if that was the case then the last episode would be a lot more convincing.

Tazzimus · 15-05-2019 11:38AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hadn't it been mentioned many times that one Dragon was enough to take out a City ,

Also people saying the turn around in Dragon skills but didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

He was killed because they needed to get rid of him. Two dragons would have been even more one sided than it already was.

It would have made more sense if he was killed in this episode and that made Dany go all mad king.
Maybe take a bolt in the initial attack from Euron like Drogon did from Bronn, then when she attacks KL, Rhaegal is killed by one of the Scorpions and she decides to BBQ the whole city in a fit of rage.

yourdeadwright · 15-05-2019 11:44AM

maximoose wrote: »

He was miraculously sniped while they were casually flying along, don't see how that had any bearing on it

Surely hitting it when your unexpected would be the best way to go about killing a dragon ?

First hit only hurt him but because of his injuries from the previous battle he did not react quick enough or couldn't fly freely enough to get out of the way of the next shot that went through his neck and killed him ,

I cant see why anyone has massive issue with it,

If you not looking or expecting an attacker its pretty easy to miss one coming ,

maximoose · 15-05-2019 11:55AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

First hit only hurt him but because of his injuries from the previous battle he did not react quick enough or couldn't fly freely enough to get out of the way of the next shot that went through his neck and killed him ,

I cant see why anyone has massive issue with it,

I don't have massive issue with it, but the bold is just massive supposition on your part. There's nothing to suggest this, neither dragon tries to avoid anything. He just gets nailed.

He was killed because they needed to get rid of him

All there is to it IMO.

facehugger99 · 15-05-2019 11:56AM

Tazzimus wrote: »

It would have made more sense if he was killed in this episode and that made Dany go all mad king.
Maybe take a bolt in the initial attack from Euron like Drogon did from Bronn, then when she attacks KL, Rhaegal is killed by one of the Scorpions and she decides to BBQ the whole city in a fit of rage.

I would have been fine with the Night's King killing him - anyone but Captain Jack Sparrow.

yourdeadwright · 15-05-2019 12:06PM

maximoose wrote: »

I don't have massive issue with it, but the bold is just massive supposition on your part. There's nothing to suggest this, neither dragon tries to avoid anything. He just gets nailed.

They clearly said he was injured and needed time to rest, ?

Do you really want everything spelled out for you that happens on the show?

Did you want a character to say after he was killed " well you see he was injured remember so it made him an easier target "

dsmythy · 15-05-2019 12:13PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hadn't it been mentioned many times that one Dragon was enough to take out a City ,

Also people saying the turn around in Dragon skills but didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

That dragon also wasn't Drogon. Wasn't ridden at the time. Wasn't expecting anything (the dragon at least didn't know). Was injured.

Not saying all this to excuse the writing but there were some differences between dragons as they faced scorpions. Dany obviously decided that flying straight at them after they already got the first shot in was not an option either. Hence the coming from where the sun shines and doing some actual thoughtful aerial maneuvering.

maximoose · 15-05-2019 12:15PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They clearly said he was injured and needed time to rest, ?

Great! Doesn't affect his death though

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Do you really want everything spelled out for you that happens on the show?

What a leap

Did you want a character to say after he was killed " well you see he was injured remember so it made him an easier target "

If you watch the first 40 seconds of this and honestly take away from it that he only dies because of some impairment, there's no point arguing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVcMJ7rM1UU

yourdeadwright · 15-05-2019 12:19PM

maximoose wrote: »

Great! Doesn't affect his death though

What a leap

If you watch the first 40 seconds of this and honestly take away from it that he only dies because of some impairment, there's no point arguing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVcMJ7rM1UU

Your right a big whole in his wing there would cause no harm at all to his ability to manoeuvre in the sky ,

Lor11 · 15-05-2019 12:58PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Hadn't it been mentioned many times that one Dragon was enough to take out a City ,

Also people saying the turn around in Dragon skills but didn't the other Dragon only get hit and die because he was already severely injured in the battle with the Knight king,

Also people saying that he didn't make much impact at the battle of Winterfell but hadn't it been previously mentioned that the dragons were not eating because of the cold which I presume would have reduced their strength plus the fog didn't help . We know he had at least 2 weeks at dragon stone in warmer climes which would have been enough time to restore him to full strength.

Brock Turnpike · 15-05-2019 01:12PM

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

thats not how i remember the words

I only had my memory to go on and I've googled the words to refresh it and they say "When your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you." I'm so conflicted now. I was convinced last week Jamie would kill her but made peace with how it worked out. I actually liked how they died.

If those are the actual words it blows my theory out of the water and leaves me feeling empty. I was convinced last week that Jamie was going to kill her. There was no question in my mind. When he didn't, I didn't like it but I could explain it.

I know we're in the wrong thread to be discussing this but now I can see why everyone is so p!ssed off. A little brother was supposed to choke the life out of her and neither did.

Totally my bad and I take the shame

But the show doesn't include that piece of the prophecy. So I'm really not sure why you're reacting the way you are.

Foxtrol · 15-05-2019 01:12PM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

See, this is a great example of early steps towards a more brutal mindset - but what people want is further emotional development from this.

Her going mad is not a problem. The signs were all there for it to be the eventual choice. But they rushed the story (same as they did almost every aspect of the show) and didn't allow for continuous, consistent growth and change.

Just about all your points are based in plot, and story, but what people are annoyed over is character from a more close, intimate point of view. Who she is, and the way she sees the world, seen through her actual actions. We saw lots of violence, but there was always, always a justification, and a greater good for the subjects at its core.

For why people are upset, you have to think about the person, not the plot. This was like a successful, pragmatically ruthlessly effective but also compassionate general coming home from war, and then shooting up a school full of kids.

That is an emotional change so vast it cannot just come out of the blue like that. All violence is not created equal.

The audience placed a justification at the core of all her actions, but when you look into them from another angle they're really poor excuses for a woman who consistently appears to enjoy taking out her enemies in a barbaric way and most of her 'justified' barbaric actions also supplement her power. Yes, she releases the Unsullied, but only after she orders them to kill all the masters. Yes, she freed the slaves from the cities in Essos, but they were the only way she was taking over those cities. She has good traits but her main drive has always been power above all else.

I would actually say doing what she did is the one way she absolutely guarantees she can't maintain the throne.

You can rule by fear, as long as a balance is maintained. Cersei and Joffrey ruled by fear, for instance, by setting the precedent that if you fuck with them in any way, they will fuck you up. But for the most part, people are allowed to go about their business.

Dany guaranteed that someone would assassinate her before long, as she set the precedent that she's just gonna randomly kill innocent people without reason or provocation. You don't need to do something wrong for her to ruin your life. I mean, her Dad got taken down for being unpredictable and crazy enough for the kingdom to rise against him, and he never did anything even close to what she did.

She is now queen of a city in which every single inhabitant has a friend, or family member that she burned alive for no reason. Every chambermaid, every soldier, every chef, every stableboy. She's put herself in an ultimately untenable position.

After the Battle of Winterfell and especially with the revelation about Jon stopping any sort of marriage, she was never going to be in a tenable position to maintain power.

To paraphrase another HBO show, she’s set up a position where if 'you come at the Queen, you better not miss'. Jon or Sansa or anyone else decide they want independence they’re risking Winterfell getting another visit from a dragon and getting the KL treatment.

turbbo · 15-05-2019 01:29PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

The audience placed a justification at the core of all her actions, but when you look into them from another angle they're really poor excuses for a woman who consistently appears to enjoy taking out her enemies in a barbaric way and most of her 'justified' barbaric actions also supplement her power. Yes, she releases the Unsullied, but only after she orders them to kill all the masters. Yes, she freed the slaves from the cities in Essos, but they were the only way she was taking over those cities. She has good traits but her main drive has always been power above all else.

After the Battle of Winterfell and especially with the revelation about Jon stopping any sort of marriage, she was never going to be in a tenable position to maintain power.

To paraphrase another HBO show, she’s set up a position where if 'you come at the Queen, you better not miss'. Jon or Sansa or anyone else decide they want independence they’re risking Winterfell getting another visit from a dragon and getting the KL treatment.

Yeah the Dany storyline is rock solid - i've no gripes with it. The dragon BS is what is annoying because it could have been staged more - and Euron knocking one down in the previous episode wasn't convincing when they follow with another one destroying everything. It just wasn't up to the usual standard for the show - rushed.

Foxtrol · 15-05-2019 01:29PM

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

You’re trying to build it up in to something that it just isn’t. Her actions will get her killed in the end and that is what it’s all about, setting the scene for next week.It was never going to end well for her, it was just a matter of how and this is the way they have gone with it, all we need to find out next week is who actually kills her. While we have certainly seen a dark side to her they really have only made rushed attempts to bring this unhinged character out over a couple of shows.

Even given all of what you mention above mass genocide does not really solidify her position to any great degree. It’s not like she has solved her issues. People are going to be terrified of her and her dragon in particular regardless.

That is what I wanted to clarify, that if she stopped when the bells rang she hadn't 'won', she may have gotten the throne but she wasn't going to be able to maintain it.

Like you said earlier, I think the rest is where we can agree to disagree. I see her actions perfectly consistent with her character, she has always solved her problems with fire, she has threatened to destroy cities in the exact same manner numerous times, always had a terrible temper, always been vengeful, has consistently treated those who she didn't see as being on her side in a barbaric manner, has ruled through fear, and that she'll do anything to get and maintain power. You can feel it is rushed but that's what I've seen consistently from her over the last 8 seasons and when you tie that to her recent losses it is plenty of building up for me.

NuMarvel · 15-05-2019 01:36PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Your right a big whole in his wing there would cause no harm at all to his ability to manoeuvre in the sky ,

He didn't have any major inability to manoeuvre in the first 20 seconds of that clip. He seems to bank left coming into Dragonstone and ends up doing a sharp 180 (or thereabouts) alongside Drogon. It even looks like he's pulling ahead in that clip.

Sure, he's hurt. But there's nothing in what we've seen to say he's hurt to such a degree that he became such an easy target for three rounds from a scorpion.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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