"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

14-05-2019 10:26AM

is_that_so wrote: »

It was a "How do we fill this 5m of plot?" moment.

That's been the whole season really..

OneOfThem Stumbled · 14-05-2019 10:33AM

Random person: GUYS! I'm really behind, I just looked at the finale of Season 7 and there's something about Cersei paying for a mercenary army, Jamie leaving Cersei to go north, and an army of undead marching south.
Audience: Doesn't matter.
Random person: What?
Audience: Nothing of what you said matters in any way to the plot.
Random person: Cersei breaking the truce?
Audience: Doesn't matter.
Random person: Daenerys losing a dragon to the Night King?
Audience: Doesn't matter. She only ever needed one.
Random person: 7 hours of Daenerys avoiding attacking King's Landing at the advice of Tyrion?
Audience: You better believe that doesn't matter.

walshb · 14-05-2019 10:40AM

One episode to go and I think overall this show is one of D most overrated hyped shows ever...

I found it bang average from start to finish....far too much drilling home evil and badness and inhumanity...no nuance or subtlety or humanity to be seen anywhere...

And bang average acting/performances....bland is an understatement.

Nalz · 14-05-2019 10:42AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Here we go again.

To start - Just like the people crawled out of the woodwork saying "We knew Arya was going to kill the Night King for years - Blue Eyes!!", we have people claiming that Dany's madness was foreshadowed for years and we weren't paying attention. That is absolutely wrong. Dany has never once murdered an innocent before, in fact, she hasn't done much wrong in general. She killed people who were objectively committing atrocities - mainly slavery. She murdered enemies who refused to bend the knee as all other rulers in Westeros have done. Tywin Lannister had Elia's children killed and Elia raped and murdered - not mad! Dany kills a few Dothraki who were trying to enslave her and gang-rape her - CRAZY! LOOK I TOLD YOU SHES CRAZY SEE! The slavers in Mereen betray their agreement to abolish slavery and attack, so she kills them - LOOK! CRAZY! She locked up her dragons (children) for killing one child! People are trying to attribute morality as we know it to her actions in a medieval time. Absolute utter nonsense that she was capable of this, and people acting smug about it too! What Dany did in the last episode was the worst atrocity in the history of Westeros. Let that sink in. The worst atrocity in the entire history of that universe.

Arya fed a man his own children after taking the time to skin and cook them. She smiled as he ate them and slit his throat. She cut off his face and wore it while she poisoned the entire extended Frey family, some of whom surely had nothing to do with the Red Wedding or were just following orders. That is more despicable than anything Dany has ever done, by far. Is Arya not the one whos madness was telegraphed?
Varys, who for decades has been a master of whisperers, starts folding over paper when people come in like a child who has been caught copying someones homework. Not surprising when last episode he was basically shouting about the treason he is about to commit. Master of Whisperers, for decades people.

Why did Tyrion telltale on Varys, and then minutes later commit treason himself? I don't understand why he even cares about the people of Kings Landing so much? "I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you, I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it."

Why does Tyrion think Jaime can appeal to Cersei? This is the same woman who tortured and bullied him as a child. Blamed him for the death of Joffrey. Rigged the trial to ensure his guilt. Chose the Mountain to ensure his death in the Trial By Combat. Had Bronn bought so he wouldn't fight for Tyrion. Blew up the sept which resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocents. Promised Tyrion she would support the living and lied. Hired Bronn to kill Tyrion. Ignored Tyrion at the walls and killed Missandei. He has tried to appeal to her about 6 times now and it has failed every time!

Why does Jaime keep taking off his glove? Surefire way to recognise him, lets keep doing it even after acknowledging how dumb it is!

Sure were a lot of Unsullied and Dothraki outside the gate. Again, they must have been hiding in the library with Arya.

Euron now has 60 good boats vs 1 dragon. Last episode she lost a dragon and retreated in fear vs 20 boats. 30 seconds later the Iron Fleet is gone. Why didn't she just burn the boats last episode?

Machine Gun reload time to labouring to reload one bolt. And wow they can't hit anything anymore. Aimbot is broken this episode.

Golden Company were definitely worth the screentime.

Jon Snow standing around like an absolute idiot, gawping while innocent people die. The same man who made allies of Wildlings would not stand for this. Ned Starks son would not stand for this. Ned Stark left Kings Landing for 15 years because of a sacking of KL. Jon just watches it happen like a dope.

Jon Snow hid behind a rock to evade dragonfire in episode 3. Just a reminder. Dragonfire casually levelling an entire city here

Euron emerging from the water where Jaime happens to be. He must have been swimming around for 30 minutes. "Arthur Curry" Greyjoy, first of his name, King of the seas and the fishes.

Jaime got stabbed in the same place that The Waif stabbed Arya. Just that sweet spot where stab wounds don't affect a character at all. Then Euron looks into the camera to die. Christ.

The Hound says to Arya, don't follow the path of killing and revenge. Bit late isn't it? Shes only killed :The stableboy, multiple Frey and Lannister soldiers, Yoren's Prisoner, The sick girl, Meryn Trant, The Waif, Walder Frey's children who she fed to Walder Frey, Walder Frey, The entire Frey extended family and Littlefinger. It's ok Arya you can be a girl again, nothing you do has any consequences! Ignore the 50-60 people you killed and be a girl again!

They played sad music for Cersei and made it out to be this sad moment when she died. The equivalent of blowing up the Vatican, she has a nun raped and tortured by a zombie, no problem Cersei is tragic! Based on what she has done no competent writer would have given her a sendoff where we were supposed to sympathise. And again supposed to be some sort of emotional moment when she is reunited with Jaime? She rode all around her while she was with Jaime and treated him like a fool.

Pity Cleganebowl had 0 stakes because they were both doomed, I guess that might be some commentary on the futility of revenge, bit late to be talking that stance though after You-Go-Girl-Arya-Ninja-Stark baked her Frey pies and smiled into the camera after!

Arya is immune to dragonfire or some sh*t. I liked how she flipped a switch to go from super ninja badass to scared little girl after a little pep talk. And then against all odds she almost died 4 times but lived! Wow! There was so much tension! :rolleyes:

The most unforgivable of all - the character assassination of Jaime Lannister, or how to undo 8 seasons of character development in one episode. The same man who broke down in the bathtub to Brienne when telling her how he had to kill Aerys to save the people, who asked Brienne if she would have stood by when innocents were about to be killed - that same man now doesn't care about the people. Who jumps into the bear pit for Brienne, who abandons Cersei to fight for the living.

People were like, the only reason he is going to Kings Landing is to kill Cersei! Nope, he is "addicted" to her and tosses away all 8 seasons of his development.

Again, in before the usual Nerd! Wierdo! Stop trying to be hipster by not liking it! All my friends like it and so did I!
Oh and the classic - If you didn't like this then you should stop watching television!

Well said. A bit harsh with the Jon Snow stuff, and quite funny in places, but hard to argue with.

I enjoyed season 7 tbh, it wasn't too bad compared to this season. The Euron scenes were an absolute farce in this ep

Nalz · 14-05-2019 10:43AM

walshb wrote: »

One episode to go and I think overall this show is one of D most overrated hyped shows ever...

Opinions are opinions, but I'm sure you know you're in a massive minority there. Especially if you take this season out of the equation.

Effects · 14-05-2019 10:47AM

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Could even be Bran using this as a way to turn people against Dany, so Jon is forced to become king. Bran can always justify **** with “I have seen he is the king we need”.

Or just warg into Dany and jump off the Dragon to her death. Same outcome regardless.

walshb · 14-05-2019 10:47AM

Nalz wrote: »

Opinions are opinions, but I'm sure you know you're in a massive minority there. Especially if you take this season out of the equation.

May be....

I'd say a large amount raging about it are simply band-wagoners....

Like a lot of things in life...

loyatemu · 14-05-2019 10:47AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Random person: Daenerys losing a dragon to the Night King?
Audience: Doesn't matter. She only ever needed one.

Obviously people are going to pile on here and say "they're magic, duh!" but I didn't buy her being able to wage that much destruction with one dragon (even leaving aside her sudden aerial prowess compared to last week). Surely there are some limits to what they can do. A couple of episodes ago she was worried that they weren't eating enough.

Maybe the other 2 dragons were the sh!t ones and she was left with the best one?

Nalz · 14-05-2019 10:48AM

ziedth wrote: »

Emilia Clarke is some why off Lena Hendley as an actress.

While I agree with this, is it not far to say a lot of this in the context of GoT is down to the directing?

is_that_so · 14-05-2019 10:51AM

Nalz wrote: »

While I agree with this, is it not far to say a lot of this in the context of GoT is down to the directing?

Quality will rise to the top and Emilia is really not the best.

walshb · 14-05-2019 10:53AM

is_that_so wrote: »

Quality will rise to the top and Emilia is really not the best.

I found her so uninspiring....like a wooden plank; Amy Huberman would give her a run for her money...

Loafing Oaf · 14-05-2019 10:54AM

loyatemu wrote: »

Obviously people are going to pile on here and say "they're magic, duh!" but I didn't buy her being able to wage that much destruction with one dragon (even leaving aside her sudden aerial prowess compared to last week).?

And if they are you wonder why she's been dicking about for the past few series. One episode of DRACARYS DRACARYS DRACARYS and she'd have wiped out the Army of the Dead, Cersei and anyone else who got in her way.

if-lyanna-mormont-had-three-dragons-this-show-would-have-25889963.png

if-lyanna-mormont-had-three-dragons-this-show-would-have-25889963.png

osarusan · 14-05-2019 11:08AM

The exploding pockets of wildfire dotted around the city made me realise how absent it was during the Battle of Winterfell.

Effects · 14-05-2019 11:09AM

Nalz wrote: »

The Euron scenes were an absolute farce in this ep

I thought he was terrible in every episode. A cartoon bad guy from start to finish.

Tazzimus · 14-05-2019 11:12AM

osarusan wrote: »

The exploding pockets of wildfire dotted around the city made me realise how absent it was during the Battle of Winterfell.

Why would it be in Winterfell?

is_that_so · 14-05-2019 11:14AM

Effects wrote: »

I thought he was terrible in every episode. A cartoon bad guy from start to finish.

I think he was told to play it that way. Actor was in Borgen and was excellent in that.

Hannibal_Smith · 14-05-2019 11:15AM

Ward J. Littell wrote: »

I don't really understand this argument. They had no problem having Robb Stark's pregnant wife being stabbed repeatedly in the stomach during the Red Wedding.

It's not an argument... Just my own pondering

Ri_Nollaig · 14-05-2019 11:19AM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

They couldn't keep the a cast any longer, its been ten years, people have to move on ,

Season 8 should have been last year and Season 9 should be airing now.
Both seasons should have had ~8, normal length, episodes.

Honestly don't understand why there was a year gap, was hardly for time to write it and would have kept the big name actors in the same time frame. Which I assume is the part that is hardest to keep together at this point.

Two full seasons instead of this rush of 6 episode season would have helped with the pacing, some of the character's decisions and the teleportation etc.

Season 8 could have had a better build up and resolving of the Night King while Season 9 could have dealt with the Iron Throne/Cersi. Like look how the 'Golden Company' was used? lol

Its a shame really

what could have been. The show still looks stunning and is blockbuster movie epic at times but just lacks any weight to these actions now.

lawred2 · 14-05-2019 11:19AM

Ri_Nollaig wrote: »

Season 8 should have been last year and Season 9 should be airing now.
Both seasons should have had ~8, normal length, episodes.

Honestly don't understand why there was a year gap, was hardly for time to write it and would have kept the big name actors in the same time frame. Which I assume is the part that is hardest to keep together at this point.

Two full seasons instead of this rush of 6 episode season would have helped with the pacing, some of the characters decisions and the teleportation etc.

Season 8 could have had a better build up and resolving of the Night King while Season 9 could have dealt with the Iron Throne/Cersi. Like look how the 'Golden Company' was used? lol

Its a shame really what could have been. The show still looks stunning and is blockbuster movie epic at times but just lacks any weight to these actions now.

that was beyond laughable

14-05-2019 11:20AM

I think the story itself has been very good. The Knights watch, wildings and North coming together to take back the North and fight the army of the dead. Dany, Dorne, Iron Borne and Tyrells coming together to fight Cersei. Dany getting dragged into the fight against the dead, not getting the love and appreciation, losing her claim and going mad queen.

The issue is simply that the ending is not long enough to do it justice.

There needed to be more of a prolonged struggle to beat the White Walkers so we can really feel how menacing they really were. Maybe some more background on their motivations and were they've been for thousands of years. It was way too simple in the end. Use Bran as bait, kill Knight King.

They also needed to build up to the mad queen a little bit more. I know that there have been some signs over the seasons, but to go burning thousands of innocent people was a step WAY further.

Its just been too rushed. Varys turns on Dany, dead at the start of the next episode. The White Walkers are finally here, they're gone. Cersei is gone, Dany has gone mad.

Its all just too much too fast, doesn't give the viewer a chance to really feel the impact.

osarusan · 14-05-2019 11:20AM

Tazzimus wrote: »

Why would it be in Winterfell?

I meant transport it to Winterfell to use against the dead. Tyrion, Ser Davos, and the Hound are fully aware of its devastating power, and fire is one of the few ways to really kill the wights.

Maybe it was all used against Stannis though.

lawred2 · 14-05-2019 11:22AM

osarusan wrote: »

I meant transport it to Winterfell to use against the dead. Tyrion, Ser Davos, and the Hound are fully aware of its devastating power, and fire is one of the few ways to really kill the wights.

Maybe it was all used against Stannis though.

Why would Cersei have given it to anyone to take North?

osarusan · 14-05-2019 11:25AM

lawred2 wrote: »

Why would Cersei have given it to anyone to take North?

That's true enough.

Maybe even a line of dialogue about how they can't get it, or it takes too long to make, or it's too dangerous to transport. Something to show that using it even occurred to Tyrion and the others.

turbbo · 14-05-2019 11:27AM

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

emo72 · 14-05-2019 11:28AM

If next week doesn't start with Bronn shoving his hand into the rubble and pulling out a barely breathing Jamie and muttering "I want me castles ya bastid ya" then I'll be disappointed.

ziedth · 14-05-2019 11:32AM

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Random person: Daenerys losing a dragon to the Night King?
Audience: Doesn't matter. She only ever needed one.

To be fair it was hinted I reckon at least a handful of time that even one dragon would be enough. Tywin and Ayra had a conversation about how they laid waste to that massive castle and I'm full sure Jorah even said to Danny that no Army could match one Drangon when he thought she was trading one for the unsullied.

maximoose · 14-05-2019 11:33AM

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

It's just par for the course this season. So many inconsistencies.

It's now gone the way of The Walking Dead / LOST for me - I'm not enjoying this season at all, it's entertaining at times for sure but it's very hollow. But I've watched for so long now I want to know how it pans out so I'll continue - at least there is an end in sight.

lawred2 · 14-05-2019 11:34AM

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

the inconsistencies are glaring really..

those ballistas couldn't fire faster last week with unerring accuracy but this week was the complete opposite..

magic_murph · 14-05-2019 11:37AM

Don't forget the terrible CGI - ohhh so bad.

It's all just disappointing from an ending point of view but still somewhat entertaining even if it does frustrate while watching.

Jamie stabbed twice with a large knife / sword - not a bother. Who needs lungs and vital organs.
Who does he think he is - James Bond.

EarlyStorms · 14-05-2019 11:39AM

turbbo wrote: »

Anybody else wondering how one dragon that had been so crap in previous episodes(in winterfell we could barely see a flame). Has the ability to breathe not just fire now but full on explosives?

My take is with Dany's descent into madness, the anger and rage inside her increases the power of Drogon.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 5 "The bells" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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