Anti-vaxxers

Seth Brundle · 13-05-2019 10:15am

Amantine wrote: »

I couldn’t agree more. How do you suggest we do that? Right now they have huge control over us. 70% of the WHO funding comes from non governmental sources. The WHO is what controls most of our healthcare decisions, including vaccines.

I'm not going to validate your percentages but the WHO do a lot of research into vaccines. Are you saying that they're just a front for the big evil pharma companies?
Is there no way for the WHO research to be validated and peer reviewed by independent researchers, scientists and doctors?
https://www.who.int/immunization/research/en/

stefanovich · 13-05-2019 10:19am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Where did I call you stupid? I'm quite sure that I posted no such thing.

Your paranoia is scary.
By the way, you should stay away from the internet - you can catch AIDS from it!

You skirted the rules. We all know what you are implying.

Please look up the definition of paranoia.

Pfizer - 2.9 billion settlement in 2009 - fraud
Novartis - 423 million settlement in 2010 - Illegal marketing
Sanofi Aventis - 95 million in 2009 - fraud
GSK - 3 billion in 2011 - fraud
Astra Zeneca - 520 million - fraud
Roche - stockpiling Tamiflu scandal
J&J - 1.1 billion in 2012 - suppressing life threatening side effects
Merck - 670 million medicaid fraud 2007
Eli Lilly - 1.4 billion - illegal marketing
Abbott - 1.5 billion medicaid fraud 2012

Credit to Dr Gotzsche for the above

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 10:29am

Pharma companies can't be trusted but people who have literally made an industry out of harming autistic people can.

Interesting to see where the line is drawn.

gmisk · 13-05-2019 10:46am

stefanovich wrote: »

You skirted the rules. We all know what you are implying.

Please look up the definition of paranoia.

Pfizer - 2.9 billion settlement in 2009 - fraud
Novartis - 423 million settlement in 2010 - Illegal marketing
Sanofi Aventis - 95 million in 2009 - fraud
GSK - 3 billion in 2011 - fraud
Astra Zeneca - 520 million - fraud
Roche - stockpiling Tamiflu scandal
J&J - 1.1 billion in 2012 - suppressing life threatening side effects
Merck - 670 million medicaid fraud 2007
Eli Lilly - 1.4 billion - illegal marketing
Abbott - 1.5 billion medicaid fraud 2012
Credit to Dr Gotzsche for the above

He seems like a totally unbiased source....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_C._G%C3%B8tzsche

Amantine · 13-05-2019 10:54am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Pharma companies can't be trusted but people who have literally made an industry out of harming autistic people can.

Interesting to see where the line is drawn.

There is a booming industry harming autistic children? Where? What utter none sense. You are really letting me down today.

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 11:01am

Amantine wrote: »

There is a booming industry harming autistic children? Where? What utter none sense. You are really letting me down today.

Well, there's Jenny McCarthy who promotes chelation therapy for autism. Chelation therapy has horrible side effects and is used as a treatment for heavy metal poisoning.

The less said of Exley the better.

Amantine · 13-05-2019 11:11am

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I'm not going to validate your percentages but the WHO do a lot of research into vaccines. Are you saying that they're just a front for the big evil pharma companies?
Is there no way for the WHO research to be validated and peer reviewed by independent researchers, scientists and doctors?
https://www.who.int/immunization/research/en/

Yes, they are lobbied by pharmaceuticals. They manufactured the bird flu pandemic and then peddled the bird flu vaccine, the same one that caused narcolepsy in thousands of people. Except the scary bird flu never came...now it’s measles, HPV, next chicken pox...the fear mongering never ends and the solution is always a vaccine. Meanwhile millions of people with just a couple of vaccinations, born before 12 to 45 vaccines where the norm, before the “6in1” ever existed, are perfectly healthy.

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 11:14am

Amantine wrote: »

Yes, they are lobbied by pharmaceuticals. They manufactured the bird flu pandemic and then peddled the bird flu vaccine, the same one that caused narcolepsy in thousands of people. Except the scary bird flu never came...now it’s measles, HPV, next chicken pox...the fear mongering never ends and the solution is always a vaccine. Meanwhile millions of people with just a couple of vaccinations, born before 12 to 45 vaccines where the norm, before the “6in1” ever existed, are perfectly healthy.

Can you prove this please?

CramCycle · 13-05-2019 11:16am

Amantine wrote: »

Yes, they are lobbied by pharmaceuticals. They manufactured the bird flu pandemic and then peddled the bird flu vaccine, the same one that caused narcolepsy in thousands of people. Except the scary bird flu never came...now it’s measles, HPV, next chicken pox...the fear mongering never ends and the solution is always a vaccine. Meanwhile millions of people with just a couple of vaccinations, born before 12 to 45 vaccines where the norm, before the “6in1” ever existed, are perfectly healthy.

They manufactured a pandemic, are you insinuating that Pharma companies designed a flu strain and released it intentionally into the public arena, for monetary benefit. They could have made more money on by simply increasing any other products cost by a cent per vial? This is what your saying?

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-05-2019 11:16am

Amantine wrote: »

Yes, they are lobbied by pharmaceuticals. They manufactured the bird flu pandemic and then peddled the bird flu vaccine, the same one that caused narcolepsy in thousands of people. Except the scary bird flu never came...now it’s measles, HPV, next chicken pox...the fear mongering never ends and the solution is always a vaccine. Meanwhile millions of people with just a couple of vaccinations, born before 12 to 45 vaccines where the norm, before the “6in1” ever existed, are perfectly healthy.

What?

Please show evidence for this ludicrous claim.

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 11:23am

Amantine wrote: »

So Jenny McCarthy = booming autism therapy? Dude! Are you sure you did science? And how did Exley benefit? You just contradicted yourself! He is one of many scientists who had their funding cut, after 35 years, once they dared to say what science, you and I know to be true: aluminium is a neurotoxin. You clearly must have had your share of it with the none sense you’re posting today.

Well, look at Wakefield's lavish lifestyle for one. Jenny McCarthy has decided to publish her odious ideology and make money off it. And then there's the various tours these people go on.

Any chance of proof for you claims that the bird flu crisis was manufactured for profit?

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 11:36am

Amantine wrote: »

Are the side effects for chelation worse than watching your child grow up with autism? Have you ever even spoken to a parent of an autistic child? Why would they chelate heavy metals of all things? Where would the heavy metals come from? Could it be mercury they are chelating? Mercury from vaccines? And why are they sometimes actually getting results? Unlike the doctors who tell them autism is for life?

Can you prove vaccines cause either autism or mercury poisoning?

CramCycle · 13-05-2019 11:38am

Amantine wrote: »

So Jenny McCarthy = booming autism therapy? Dude! Are you sure you did science? And how did Exley benefit? You just contradicted yourself! He is one of many scientists who had their funding cut, after 35 years, once they dared to say what science, you and I know to be true: aluminium is a neurotoxin. You clearly must have had your share of it with the none sense you’re posting today.

Exeley wasn't going to get funding regardless of that paper in the next round of funding calls, his science and methodology is poor, which unfortunately for him means that even if he has something, no one will ever take his postulations seriously because he will never be able to back them up with reliable evidence. Exeley benefited because it brought in an alternative funding body outside of the norms, which unscientifically had made the decision on what the research must state before it had began, so yes, he benefited, he benefited hugely, but lets not let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Amantine · 13-05-2019 11:39am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Well, look at Wakefield's lavish lifestyle for one. Jenny McCarthy has decided to publish her odious ideology and make money off it. And then there's the various tours these people go on.

So a whole two people are making a living of the booming anti vaccine industry?Do you have figures of how much this industry is worth?

ohnonotgmail · 13-05-2019 11:41am

Amantine wrote: »

So a whole two people are making a living of the booming anti vaccine industry?Do you have figures of how much this industry is worth?

how much does that lad in the west charge for his bottles of bleach that he recommends parents of autistic children give to their kids? Because at the moment that is who you are arguing in favour of. Not the sort of company i would want to keep.

ancapailldorcha · 13-05-2019 11:41am

Amantine wrote: »

So a whole two people are making a living of the booming anti vaccine industry?Do you have figures of how much this industry is worth?

Sure. Once you substantiate your claim that autism and heavy metal poisoning can be caused to vaccines.

Amantine · 13-05-2019 11:48am

CramCycle wrote: »

Exeley wasn't going to get funding regardless of that paper in the next round of funding calls, his science and methodology is poor

So after 35 years of internationally recognised research, a professor with his own department at a university doesn’t know science? He had no problem getting funding until his science threatened the pharmaceutical companies. Why is that? Who says his methodology is poor? Science raptor who has never done research in his life? Exleys paper was not withdrawn by the way! It only pseudo scientists and you who have a problem with it.

Amantine · 13-05-2019 11:50am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Sure. Once you substantiate your claim that autism and heavy metal poisoning can be caused to vaccines.

You substantiate anything you say for a change!

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-05-2019 11:53am

Amantine wrote: »

They manufactured the bird flu pandemic

Mod: Proof of this is required if you want to continue posting in this thread

Amantine · 13-05-2019 11:54am

Amantine wrote: »

So a whole two people are making a living of the booming anti vaccine industry?Do you have figures of how much this industry is worth?

50 billion is what the vaccine industry will be worth! Case closed!

“The overall market for vaccines is expected to grow from USD 36.45 billion in 2018 to USD 50.42 billion by 2023, at a CAGR of 6.7% from 2018 to 2023. Market growth is attributed to the high prevalence of infectious diseases, growing support for vaccine R&D, investments into vaccine development, and a rising focus on immunization. The base year considered for the study is 2017, and the forecast has been provided for the period between 2018 and 2023.”

https://www.marketsandmarkets.com/Market-Reports/vaccine-technologies-market-1155.html

jh79 · 13-05-2019 11:54am

Amantine wrote: »

So after 35 years of internationally recognised research, a professor with his own department at a university doesn’t know science? He had no problem getting funding until his science threatened the pharmaceutical companies. Why is that? Who says his methodology is poor? Science raptor who has never done research in his life? Exleys paper was not withdrawn by the way! It only pseudo scientists and you who have a problem with it.

It's in a predatory journal. The peer review process is lax to increase the number of papers that get through and therefore revenue. They have an unusually high number of retraction

I believe Exley is on the board for that publishing group.

Declan Waugh publishes in that journal too for the same reason.

Even ignoring all that, Exely own earlier research contradicted his findings. There were no differences in the Aluminium content of the dried brains across his two papers contrary to what he claimed. Strange coincidence that he "mistakenly" put in the wrong reference to his own previous research!

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-05-2019 11:57am

Amantine wrote: »

Are the side effects for chelation worse than watching your child grow up with autism? Have you ever even spoken to a parent of an autistic child? Why would they chelate heavy metals of all things? Where would the heavy metals come from? Could it be mercury they are chelating? Mercury from vaccines? And why are they sometimes actually getting results? Unlike the doctors who tell them autism is for life?

I don't need to, i am one.

batgoat · 13-05-2019 12:01pm

Amantine wrote: »

Are the side effects for chelation worse than watching your child grow up with autism? Have you ever even spoken to a parent of an autistic child? Why would they chelate heavy metals of all things? Where would the heavy metals come from? Could it be mercury they are chelating? Mercury from vaccines? And why are they sometimes actually getting results? Unlike the doctors who tell them autism is for life?

Firstly, you have an atrocious view of people with autism. Chelation can cause kidney damage while has no proven benefit for those with autism.

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-05-2019 12:05pm

Amantine wrote: »

Sure: how about the Head of health at the council of Europe:
“Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, has accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of hyping up the virus and influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic.

Calling for an EU inquiry, he described the H1N1 outbreak as “one of the greatest medical scandals of the century. We have had a mild flu — and a false pandemic.”

Swine flu so far has taken the lives of 251 people in Britain. Yes, each death is sad but this is not what we were lead to believe would happen. Millions (billions?) have been wasted.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/swine-flu-caused-madness-28511377.html

Mod: This is not proof. Don't post in this thread again.

PM me if you want clarification. But before you do that, make sure you look up the definition of the word 'proof' in a dictionary and clearly understand it.

Timberrrrrrrr · 13-05-2019 12:16pm

Amantine wrote: »

Sure: how about the Head of health at the council of Europe:
“Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, has accused the makers of flu drugs and vaccines of hyping up the virus and influencing the World Health Organisation's decision to declare a pandemic.

Calling for an EU inquiry, he described the H1N1 outbreak as “one of the greatest medical scandals of the century. We have had a mild flu — and a false pandemic.”

Swine flu so far has taken the lives of 251 people in Britain. Yes, each death is sad but this is not what we were lead to believe would happen. Millions (billions?) have been wasted.
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/gail-walker/swine-flu-caused-madness-28511377.html

No no

You said

They manufactured the bird flu pandemic

Now you're saying they "hyped it up".

Dohnjoe · 13-05-2019 12:19pm

Amantine wrote: »

What is dangerous is you ignoring real science to further the agenda of the pharmaceutical companies.

To hold back the cure for cancer?

That's another fruitloop conspiracy with the precisely same tenants as yours. Doctors and physicians make a lot of money, therefore they have an agenda, therefore there's a conspiracy.. that's how it goes right?

Random internet users and celebrities know more than medical science, right?

Brian? · 13-05-2019 12:29pm

Amantine wrote: »

Has anyone ever explained correlation v causation to you?

You keep post correlations between two data sets without linking them by causation. Even the studies you post are pure correlation. Once a correlation is found you then begin to study if there is a causal link. Correlation alone is worth zip.

CelticRambler · 13-05-2019 12:39pm

I know you're taking time out now, but ...

Amantine wrote: »

If I injected fish directly into my bloodstream that comment would be relevant.

So would all the stuff about aluminium (maybe) if you injected vaccines into your bloodstream. But vaccines aren't injected into the bloodstream so it's not.

Amantine wrote: »

But by sheer coincidence the US also has the sickest children and the highest mother mortality rate in the western world?

They also have more deaths from gun violence than the rest of the civilised world put together, and a higher rate of fatal road accidents than the EU, Canada, Australia ... Nothing to do with vaccines (or big pharma); all to do with an attitude in the US that life is cheap.

CelticRambler · 13-05-2019 12:39pm

stefanovich wrote: »

Every single pharmaceutical company existence has a blackened history. They are some of the most corrupt and sick industries in existence.

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Which is what strong regulations are for.

@AH - exactly, and (@stefanovich) it's arguable that the unregulated "nutraceutical" industry is very much more sick and corrupt, playing on people's fears and gullibility, and encouraging them to not effectively treat illnesses until they've become so severe/unmanageable that the person has no choice but to take way more "Big Pharma" medication than they otherwise would have needed.

specky4eyes · 13-05-2019 12:41pm

I've always wondered why the percentage of healthcare workers who get vaccinated is so low.

And another thing that doesn't make sense is how un-vaccinated people are a threat to vaccinated people, surely if one gets vaccinated they are immune to anything the un-vaccinated person can pass onto them.

Just one third of hospital nurses have had the flu jab despite raffles and free coffee incentives.

UPTAKE OF THE flu vaccination among hospital workers has increased in recent months following a campaign launched by the HSE, but the rate for nurses remains low at just over 32%.

Back in October, Minister for Health Simon Harris had expressed concern at slow uptake - just 31% of all hospital workers were immunised in 2016. The number for nursing staff in 2016 was even lower at 26.4%.

thejournal.ie/nurses-flu-jab-3786843-Jan2018/

Motivators and barriers to vaccination of health professionals against seasonal influenza in primary healthcare

Only 12% of included health professionals were vaccinated in the 2014/15 season.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6234642/

Anti-vaxxers

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