Patrick Quirke -Guilty

Muahahaha wrote: »

Earlier on thread someone mentioned a Polish farm labourer employed there who went back to Poland shortly thereafter, is there any more details about this bit?

Think that may have been a red herring, some man working on Quirkes farm work experience I think around the time body was discovered gave evidence saying a discussion with Patrick Quirke about the discovery Quirke said he heard rumors a Polish gang may be involved.

I think there was a suggestion of a Polish worker on the farm at the time of disappearance who went back to Poland and committed suicide.Worker may not have existed.

Vicarious Function wrote: »

I don't think the body was ever in the van. I believe Bobby R. (R.I.P.) was killed as he came out of Mary Lowry's house at approx 6.30 ba.m. by Quirke who was waiting for him. The slurry tank is on M. Lowry's farm, so the body would not have to be transported anywhere. I imagine Quirke would have had a selection of machinery, for instance somethng like a forklift. Using something like that, it wold be simple enough to move the body into the run-off tank. He must have had access to fairly good machinery as he would have had to lift the concrete covers off the tank in order to get the body in there. After all, he had access to a suction machine and slurry spreader, which are fairly heavy machinery. IMO, he could even have used one of those machines in committing the murder.

According to Mary, the van was about 10 mins late leaving that morning. So assume that everything was prepared,,,the slabs moved of the tank, and Quirke used a forklift to move the body to the tank,strip it and dump it in, replace the slabs etc.. all in 10 mins?? And remember, the body was not just dumped into the tank...it was carefully laid down. Plus Mary would have to hear the forklift ( or whatever it was )..they are pretty noisy. For that to work, she would have to be involved.
The other scenario is that he killed him, loaded him in the van, took the body somewhere else, hid it and then parked the van in the wood car park where it was later found. He then came back later on when he had the time to work at his leisure...picked up the body, stripped it and placed it in the tank...and then covered the tank with bales to hide it. Even that scenario would need an accomplice. Quirke given the nature of his job would be used to pulling and dragging,,, but even so,getting the body up off the ground and into the van dead weight, would take some effort.

Vicarious Function wrote: »

Yes. There are many tragic aspects to this story. The biggest tragedy of all is Quirke himself. He had so much going for him, as we heard on Prime Time and yet due to flaws in his character, he blew it all. He's the real Greek tragedy.

Yes he is clearly a more sensitive and intelligent man than his demeanour would suggest. But maybe that very depth of character was part of what drove him to commit a 'crime of passion' in circumstances where a simpler man might have said "Feck it, I'll find another woman."

Nikki Sixx wrote: »

I’m after matching with Mary Lowry on Tinder!

careful cos the last 2 ended up dead and the other is in Jail!

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yes he is clearly a more sensitive and intelligent man than his demeanour would suggest. But maybe that very depth of character was part of what drove him to commit a 'crime of passion' in circumstances where a simpler man might have said "Feck it, I'll find another woman."

I think that it was more than a woman....he already had a wife and family...but it was more than that....it was the Land!!! John B Keane captured it very well in the play " The Field", where a piece of land was worth killing for. I'm pretty sure that the land played a pretty big part of it. Plus of course, there was money, stock's shares etc. With him out of the picture, and Bobby replacing him, any chance he had of controlling all that was all lost.

Nobelium wrote: »

The whole agenda of the media was as usual to present so called "rural" Ireland with as much sneering and condescending contempt as possible.

Sex sells.

freshpopcorn wrote: »

It didn't make him stop cheating but she may have felt she needed the support and didn't want to be on her own after losing a child was th point I was trying to make.
They are endless reasons why she might have stuck by him.

Yes she stuck by him, right up to the end. When the guilty verdict was read out, she showed no emotion...did not even look at him. Left the court straight away, and was not there when he was sentenced. One reason maybe she stuck with him was that he might be acquitted....until yesterday, the outcome was uncertain. So now physically, he is out of her life. Had he been acquitted, then it would be a case of picking up the pieces, where ever they might have fallen... but one thing for sure,,,it would never go back to where it once was. I feel sorry for the Families..all of them. They are innocent in all of this.

Well thought out, Neyite! One mistake he made was writng down his thoughts.

Nobelium wrote: »

The whole agenda of the media was as usual to present so called "rural" Ireland with as much sneering and condescending contempt as possible.

Theres definitely an element of condescending reporting towards rural Ireland by the largely Dublin based media. Its like they are shocked that people actually have sex in rural Ireland. They got especially giddy when it came out that Mary Lowry had three different partners within three years. So fcuking what, they must be even more shocked to learn that some people have three different partners within a week :rolleyes:

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Yes he is clearly a more sensitive and intelligent man than his demeanour would suggest. But maybe that very depth of character was part of what drove him to commit a 'crime of passion' in circumstances where a simpler man might have said "Feck it, I'll find another woman."

Was it a crime of passion or a crime for land? I think it is a mix of both, he needed to be with Mary Lowry to eventually manipulate her into giving him the land. He was already leasing it at a pittance of a rent, his next move was to legally acquire it and for that to happen he needed to be in a relationship with her.

It is not until today that I realised that at least 50% of his motivation to kill was because of land. Quirkes mother was on Joe Duffy and said that before her husband died they discussed his will with a solicitor. From that discussion she had understood that she was being left the family home to live in for the rest of her days and that Patrick was getting the family farm. Upon Quirke Snr death it transpired in the will that Patrick was to get both the farm and the family home.

Now how did that happen? I'm thinking he manipulated his father into changing the will, I;m sure there is a backstory there as to why Quirke Snr. basically left his wife up sh1t creek, she could not use the home against nursing home fees because she didnt own it despite her contributing to the mortgage for decades. Patrick owned it and her coming onto national radio today spoke volumes of how she felt she got shafted by her own husband and her own son.

Jeff2 wrote: »

He seems to know some of what he was doing.

He recorded a conversation in Marys home and there is no explanation how.
I'd say he was there earlier and left a fully charged phone on record and came back to say he forgot it anytime later.

They say it was a Nokia.

Some phones can be set to auto answer and no ring tone also....?

Neyite wrote: »

There is some evidence that he planned ahead and was quite meticulous. If you had planned ahead you would have time. It was 9.30am before someone next saw him I think. He knew that Friday mornings was good for privacy as Lowry brought her MIL shopping directly after the school run. So no one was at home. Silage bales were on top of the tank it seems so the Gardai would not have seen any signs of the tank. So lets say that you put the silage there a few weeks before, then the night before you move them, open up the tank, park your own car in the woods, walking back to the farm. At 6.30am you knock the victim unconscious, then put him into the tank ensuring that you've landed more blows to ensure he is dead. The victim would bleed out into the tank mostly. You move the van to the woods, drive back in your own car, replace the slab and move the silage bales back in place over the tank. You'd easily have that done in three hours, I'd say?

Get what you're saying and like your thinking about him having his car in the woods overnight to do a switch about with the van. Your theory also explains why there was no DNA or blood found in the van, because Ryan was never in it after the murder, he was moved straight away to the tank But-

-Did Quirke drag the body all the way from Lowrys house to the tank? How far was it, sounds like a huge struggle to do so and blood must be dripping everywhere all the way to the tank
-On the tank, yes easily hidden by bales of silage but inside the milking parlour there has to be a drain with a pipe leading into the tank, no? Surely an investigator would be asking where does that drain pipe end up, etc.
-Car park at the woods- the van was found very quickly so did the Gardai do an analysis of tyre marks. Woodland car parks are often just dirt patches, if Quirke had left the woods in his own car only an hour or two previous then the tyre marks might be fresh and not dusted over?

Defintely possible to do it within three hours. And if it was as pre-meditated as it seems then all this thinking out would have been done by him over many weeks before the murder.

Neyite wrote: »

I think that he claimed to love her because of the benefit to him of her believing she was loved. I know what you are saying and on the surface it does look like it was a jealous love thing, but have you seen how he benefited financially from the relationship? She was his gravy train.

The Field #2!! Interesting that just as they started the affair, when he 'crossed the line' according to Mary Lowry, he got her to lease the land to him for seven years. He was a greedy bastard, as was further evidenced on Joe Duffy today, where they played a clip of his mother recounting, back in 2005, how he would not honour an agreement to give her the house when his father died, even though the land was willed to him. :mad:

I thought there was blood found in her house?

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Great theory, but major fault surely he had a job getting the man to walk to the tank or carry a body to with out leaving a trace.
The local plod messed up big time. First like your theory above if he moved bales on to the tank the ground would show vehicle tracks and a country copper should see question the reason why and the parlour would suggest a tank.
Second if killed on the farm there had to be blood at the scene.
Third it seems the local plod did not take this very serious in the start and when the body was found it seems to have being a real mess with the state investigator not turning up and trying to take the body out.
The case in rathfarnham graham Dwyer would not have being solved only the young Garda in roundwood done his job when he found the bags in the reservoir

This murder was all about quirke getting free milk from the cow and when this stopped he was not happy.

And if there was an altercation in the yard. Mil would have heard it. She could hear the rumble of the van going over the cattle grid but on the morning in question heard nothing.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Oh right thanks for the clarification. The poster earlier in the thread said a Poiish farm labourer went back to Poland with a ball of cash in his pocket. I didnt post the cash bit because it was obviously innuendo and rumour but now you've clarified that this story came from Quirke himself, enough said.

Unless someone can show otherwise I have it existence of the Polish worker came from him yes, assuming the existence of the Polish guy imagine that poster put together a tale alright.

Here is article of witness telling trial Quirke told him rumors were a Polish gang were thought to be involved.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1034453/