Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

goingnowhere · 29-04-2019 12:20PM

Wendy house?

I count at least 4 -200 configs

With the bunk with crew rest (does this mean 3 seats at the front row of Y?)
Without the bunk with crew rest
No crew rest (but does it have the bunk EWR?)
GEY ?

A330-300 I think are the same bar the HGW/242 cert GCF/GAJ which are short 4 seats + crew rest

So at least 6 variants, crazy

California Dreamer · 29-04-2019 12:35PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Wendy house?

Same difference, my crew mates called it the shed.

Rawr · 29-04-2019 01:01PM

goingnowhere wrote: »

The crew rest is cargo container loaded which joins up with the magic door down at L3, the -300 fitted have 4 fewer seats as a result

I had no idea they did it that way.

Very clever solution...if it was me, I'd almost be afraid of over sleeping in there and getting "shipped" onto another flight :P

NH2013 · 29-04-2019 02:48PM

Also the HGW 242T A330-300s have a pilot crew sleeping area just behind the cockpit opposite the door to the forward toilet, got a peak into it once on the ground, looks pretty snazzy, big comfy armchair and a fold down bed that looks very wide and comfy. This does mean though that the forward galley is smaller on these A330-300s.

goingnowhere · 29-04-2019 03:45PM

Sounds like the -200 config, lots of sound proofing on the door

Tenger · 29-04-2019 03:48PM

Shamrockj wrote: »

I've seen it discussed that one of the two new A330-300 will be replacing a -200 any guesses which one? Maybe
-LAX or -EWR. Do people think the extra 330 will be for new routes or increased frequencies?

My thinking is EWR or GEY. Although I think it was reported here that GEY is a 5 year lease. EWR was in service earlier so its 5 year may be ending soon?

Increase in frequency on Seattle. Might see extra frequency to SFO during the Summer, 10x weekly?
Denver and Houston might be possible new A330 routes.

Idbatterim wrote: »

When are these likely to be delivered?

At the livery unveil I believe it was mentioned 1 in Q4 this year and another in H1 2020.

As for the -200 configs, does the wifi/IFE location really affect customers? Im sure the crew get annoyed but commercially the punters are the priority.
I have memories of the 'wendy house' back in the early 2000s!!

Karl8415 · 30-04-2019 10:14AM

With all the talk on weights for the a330-300’s I’m just wondering whats the MTOW of the 200’s now because when I worked with EI they were 230T,I only ask now out of curiosity because with the new 300’s been 233T outside of GAJ/GCF I be interested to see if the 200’s have been increased

Tenger · 30-04-2019 10:18AM

Can they update the weight like that? Software?
I doubt it with the age of the EI -200s.
DUO is the youngest, delivered in 2007.

HTCOne · 30-04-2019 01:20PM

Tenger wrote: »

Can they update the weight like that? Software?
I doubt it with the age of the EI -200s.
DUO is the youngest, delivered in 2007.

Not sure about the EI 200s but in general modern heavies can have their MTOW increased assuming they aren't the all singing all dancing version to begin with. It's often literally just a piece of paper from the manufacturer, but it is expensive for a number of reasons. For example Delta's first batch of A359s were 268T MTOW versions, they retrospectively increased the MTOW to 275T. I heard Airbus charged $5 million per airframe.

Also retrospectively increasing MTOW reduces inspection and replacement intervals on a number of components, E.G. landing gear. It also often requires a bump in thrust, reducing the life of a number of engine components, as well as increasing fuel burn.

I believe the EI 200s are still all 230T MTOW, but they may all be too old to increase. Also there's probably no point with the runway length, I doubt they can get out above 220T most days anyway.

sherology · 30-04-2019 03:19PM

The a330 has had every increasing MTOWs over the years, with the latest being I believe 251T, up from 242T, and that up from something in the 230s etc. etc.

The core airframe for each increase is identical for all new builds BUT they can be paper de-rated to a lower tonnage, to save on airport/landing charges, and use lower trust on their engines (as they are loaded lighter).

So, for example, EI buys a new a330 today. The airframe is the latest 251T STD. but EI buy a paper de-rated 233T version, with lower max. trust engines (same engine just software de-rated) saving wear-and-tear etc.

Have a read of this: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-not-expecting-further-mtow-hike-on-a330neo-449626/

May help you understand. Can be a bit confusing.

As the core airframe is actually a 251T... You can pay Airbus to up the MTOW and maybe do some software updates to use the plane for higher loads, or greater range.

sherology · 30-04-2019 03:26PM

sherology wrote: »

The a330 has had every increasing MTOWs over the years, with the latest being I believe 251T, up from 242T, and that up from something in the 230s etc. etc.

The core airframe for each increase is identical for all new builds BUT they can be paper de-rated to a lower tonnage, to save on airport/landing charges, and use lower trust on their engines (as they are loaded lighter).

So, for example, EI buys a new a330 today. The airframe is the latest 251T STD. but EI buy a paper de-rated 233T version, with lower max. trust engines (same engine just software de-rated) saving wear-and-tear etc.

Have a read of this: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-not-expecting-further-mtow-hike-on-a330neo-449626/

May help you understand. Can be a bit confusing.

As the core airframe is actually a 251T... You can pay Airbus to up the MTOW and maybe do some software updates to use the plane for higher loads, or greater range.

And in turn... If your airframe is an older frame, built to the 212T STD. you can't paper up-rate it, as the airframe isn't built with the reinforcing. You can de-rate from the max possible, but can only jump up the MTOW to the max. the particular frame is capable/engineered to

alancostello · 30-04-2019 04:33PM

sherology wrote: »

The a330 has had every increasing MTOWs over the years, with the latest being I believe 251T, up from 242T, and that up from something in the 230s etc. etc.

The core airframe for each increase is identical for all new builds BUT they can be paper de-rated to a lower tonnage, to save on airport/landing charges, and use lower trust on their engines (as they are loaded lighter).

So, for example, EI buys a new a330 today. The airframe is the latest 251T STD. but EI buy a paper de-rated 233T version, with lower max. trust engines (same engine just software de-rated) saving wear-and-tear etc.

Have a read of this: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/airbus-not-expecting-further-mtow-hike-on-a330neo-449626/

May help you understand. Can be a bit confusing.

As the core airframe is actually a 251T... You can pay Airbus to up the MTOW and maybe do some software updates to use the plane for higher loads, or greater range.

Just to note, 251T is for the neo, 242T is max for ceo. EI's recent new birds are all of 242 spec, but some are derated.

dfx- · 01-05-2019 12:02PM

I have been booking UK-Dub return flights for the months ahead from a couple of places recently and have noticed a lot more Stobart Air scheduled departures and especially CityJet flights in the schedule rather than the usual A320.

How many of the CityJet Avros do they have in the fleet and are they really going to be used more often and spread away from London?

Jamie2k9 · 01-05-2019 12:14PM

dfx- wrote: »

I have been booking UK-Dub return flights for the months ahead from a couple of places recently and have noticed a lot more Stobart Air scheduled departures and especially CityJet flights in the schedule rather than the usual A320.

How many of the CityJet Avros do they have in the fleet and are they really going to be used more often and spread away from London?

Its just peak summer mid May-end of August and only BHX for Cityjet.

Karl8415 · 01-05-2019 06:11PM

Just wondering with EI due to take deliveries of their 321LR’S soon would they explore the possibility of converting some over to XLR because unless I’m mistaken I think airbus have launched it and EI said it could be of interest to them over the extended range on top of the LR’S

alancostello · 01-05-2019 06:24PM

Karl8415 wrote: »

Just wondering with EI due to take deliveries of their 321LR’S soon would they explore the possibility of converting some over to XLR because unless I’m mistaken I think airbus have launched it and EI said it could be of interest to them over the extended range on top of the LR’S

Airbus haven't publicly launched it, but they are supposedly offering it to airline customers (one can only assume to gauge real interest and carve out a strong launch customer/order).

EI may get some XLRs, sure, but the regular LR still works for the east coast and the northern midwest US, which is the majority of EI's transatlantic market so far.

If the XLR hits the 4700-5000nmi range being floated around it would be able to serve even the west coast, so you could certainly count on DEN/IAH/LAS plus maybe some extra California destinations.

duskyjoe · 01-05-2019 10:27PM

alancostello wrote: »

If the XLR hits the 4700-5000nmi range being floated around it would be able to serve even the west coast, so you could certainly count on DEN/IAH/LAS plus maybe some extra California destinations.

West coast dreams are pure pie in the sky re the XLR, unless proper crew rest facilities are installed as in a LDMCR, and a crew rest area for pilots near cockpit. The XLR is a glorified 321 and long haul it won’t be doing which is the domain of the 330etc.

alancostello · 01-05-2019 10:41PM

duskyjoe wrote: »

West coast dreams are pure pie in the sky re the XLR, unless proper crew rest facilities are installed as in a LDMCR, and a crew rest area for pilots near cockpit. The XLR is a glorified 321 and long haul it won’t be doing which is the domain of the 330etc.

Oh I don't think it's likely to happen, it's just possible if they hit the range their supposedly touting. IAH/DEN seem like obvious candidates, longer, thin routes that probably wouldn't fill an A330 but are just beyond the scope of the A321LR.

Would a blocked-off J seat for the pilots and some blocked-off Y for cabin crew technically suffice the requirements? I've seen airlines do the curtain around the seats for crew rest before, not saying it's a nice experience for them but are separate purpose built bunks in contracts? A container in the belly on the A321XLR for crew would likely be too short/tight to be practical or even certified.

Tenger · 01-05-2019 10:54PM

AFAIK crew rest has to be separated from passengers. (minimum recline angle and footrest is also a requirement, the bunks offer a longer max duty time than just comfy seats) So unless EI want to curtain off the last row of J Class I cant see it being feasible.

One issue that may crop up is the galley size on the A321LR. My understanding is that EI opted for the ACF config, this has smaller galley footprint to allow extra footage for seats. While this isnt a problem for flights up to 4 hours around Europe ( as in buy on board service) the EI T/A product has a bar, a meal and a snack service.
Im wondering if the galleys can even fit all that stuff. I was crew when EI had the old cabin config on their A321s. (Galley and a half at the front as it is now, full galley at the back, and a small half galley at door 2) Thinking back to that time, I struggle to see them fitting in the supplies for their current TA service as now its just galley at front and rear. Business class will be very 'busy' with carts for Y class being pushed through from the front.

I havent been on an EI B757 so cant compare how they do it to my memory of the A321. But Im guessing the the 1990s vintage B757s have decent sized galleys?

As for the XLR; I think its a no brainer than EI are interested in these. But Im sure they will be focused on getting their first 8 into operation befofe they look at the following 6-10!

kevinandrew · 01-05-2019 11:30PM

Tenger wrote: »

One issue that may crop up is the galley size on the A321LR. My understanding is that EI opted for the ACF config, this has smaller galley footprint to allow extra footage for seats.

Aer Lingus didn't have much of a choice, the ACF cabin is the standard option for the A321LR and from 2020 will become the standard for all A321neo aircraft. How they're going to provide the full service with two rather small galley areas is a good question but plenty of other airlines will be figuring it out at the same time, Turkish, TAP and SAS will have similar layouts and route profiles for example.

alancostello · 01-05-2019 11:35PM

Tenger wrote: »

AFAIK crew rest has to be separated from passengers. (minimum recline angle and footrest is also a requirement, the bunks offer a longer max duty time than just comfy seats) So unless EI want to curtain off the last row of J Class I cant see it being feasible.

One issue that may crop up is the galley size on the A321LR. My understanding is that EI opted for the ACF config, this has smaller galley footprint to allow extra footage for seats. While this isnt a problem for flights up to 4 hours around Europe ( as in buy on board service) the EI T/A product has a bar, a meal and a snack service.
Im wondering if the galleys can even fit all that stuff. I was crew when EI had the old cabin config on their A321s. (Galley and a half at the front as it is now, full galley at the back, and a small half galley at door 2) Thinking back to that time, I struggle to see them fitting in the supplies for their current TA service as now its just galley at front and rear. Business class will be very 'busy' with carts for Y class being pushed through from the front.

I havent been on an EI B757 so cant compare how they do it to my memory of the A321. But Im guessing the the 1990s vintage B757s have decent sized galleys?

As for the XLR; I think its a no brainer than EI are interested in these. But Im sure they will be focused on getting their first 8 into operation befofe they look at the following 6-10!

As far as I was aware ACF or Airbus Cabin Flex only refers to the layout of the doors (in EI’s case the removal of doors 2 and activation of one out of two overwing exits). The lavatory/galley configuration that reduces galley space is called Space Flex, where the left hand side of the rear galley becomes two lavatories instead.

Cabin Flex and Space Flex debuted at roughly the same time as measures to increase seat count on the neo, but I don’t believe they have to be installed together. It’s possible EI are using the new door configuration/ACF while keeping a full galley at the back (which seems rather necessary). The lavatories could be either as the last row similar to A320s now or further up the cabin at doors 3 like they are on the 757s.

kevinandrew · 02-05-2019 12:01AM

The seat map Aer Lingus has displayed shows the Space Flex option, as does the recently delivered TAP A321LR in a near identical configuration. My mistake thinking ACF went hand in hand with Space Flex! Why they've both chosen such a tight galley config for transatlantic aircraft would be interesting to know and see in action, could be a bumpy service for the first few months as crews deal with the differences.

Tenger · 02-05-2019 07:52AM

Thanks for the correction. Didn’t realise it was standard on LRs going forward.
I’m guessing that time will tell.

kevinandrew · 02-05-2019 08:39AM

Aer Space is officially launched.

Middle seat free
Private overhead storage
Complimentary food and drink from our Bia menu
Lounge access
Priority boarding
Fast Track security
Automatic standby for earlier flights
Free changes and refunds

https://www.aerlingus.com/travel-information/aer-lingus-news/aerspace/

Van.Bosch · 02-05-2019 08:59AM

kevinandrew wrote: »

Aer Space is officially launched.

Middle seat free
Private overhead storage
Complimentary food and drink from our Bia menu
Lounge access
Priority boarding
Fast Track security
Automatic standby for earlier flights
Free changes and refunds

https://www.aerlingus.com/travel-information/aer-lingus-news/aerspace/

Seems to be about 90 dearer each way than the cheapest fare to Heathrow.

Wonder is it unlimited free food/fldrinks?

L1011 · 02-05-2019 10:42AM

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Wonder is it unlimited free food/fldrinks?

Not a hope on the food front; even if they start significantly increasing catering loads there won't be enough onboard for that!

And extremely unlikely on the drinks.

frogone · 02-05-2019 11:11AM

4 different fare types now, I think Aer Lingus are over complicating things.

And how do they propose "Private overhead storage" will work?

L1011 · 02-05-2019 11:13AM

frogone wrote: »

4 different fare types now, I think Aer Lingus are over complicating things.

And how do they propose "Private overhead storage" will work?

Anyone from plebian classes trying to put bags there will have them taken out by crew; same as eurobiz on any other carrier.

frogone · 02-05-2019 11:18AM

Ah OK, I'm assuming then in that case the first few rows will be allocated to 'AerSpace' like BA's offering on DUB-LHR.

trellheim · 02-05-2019 11:27AM

And its not on the outshop routes like LCY or EDI ; they obviously think there's a market there but every route listed is only 2-2.5 hours flying and most regulars will have most of the benefits from Aerclub anyway so is it just gilding a lily for business class transfers from longhaul or something ?

Aer Lingus Fleet/Routes Discussion

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